Thanks to those folks you've mentioned, and thanks to you for keeping the rest of us informed...

+1


This is no small undertaking. I hope your effort bears some fruit for the sport fishers of WB and it's tribs.

Well here is something I find interesting. This link https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2tWjgmgVy3yT18zcktaQThHX0k/edit is to a spread sheet for Grays Harbor 2013 dated April 4th 2013 if I remember correctly and has the QIN proposed 2013 netting season. NOW THIS IS THE FIRST RUN NOT THE FINAL SO THE NUMBERS MAY HAVE AND IN FACT HAVE CHANGED. You will need to down load the spread sheet to get it fully functional and head to the page labeled MGMT Summary. What you will see is if it had been adopted along with WDF&W's proposed seasons the Chinook escapement would have been minus 1998 for a escapement of 10366 which is well below 12364. This was with NT Nets at 14 days with a 14.7% mortality for the released wild Chinook. The CR 102 Supplemental ( WAC ) modeled 7 days at 25% but I do not remember the impacts on the states side changing much.

So the read I get from the status of April when the QIN came to the table is that neither Chinook or Chum will make escapement on the Chehalis if both QIN and State fish their respective proposed schedules. Oh yeah almost forgot, the model spread sheet was obtained in a PDR request attached to a e mail. WDF&W Region 6 staff have refused to release the 2013 model with the QIN commercial schedule.

Here are the thoughts of another who reviewed the sheet:

It was interesting.

Comparing the total GH harvest of both Wild and Hatchery for the Quin April
4 schedule with the final Tangle net NT schedule gets the following percentage of the total harvest:
Quin Chinook = 65.9%
Quin Coho = 57.1%
Quin Chum = 72.4%

I used total harvest because the NT and the Quin do not count the same way when allocating fish between rivers. The Quinn are just by location fished while the NT use CWT splits at each location.

I think the Quin net days are about the same as last year, at least in Sept and Oct. The Quin intend to take nearly the total harvestable Chum again and we plan to harvest another 3,607 NT Chum.

Idaho, and this is from a letter, outlined their fishing plans/history. Although this applied to trout, i think that you'll see a resemblance to salmon.

First, Fish Until Community Collapses Under Pressure (FUCCUP)
then, Planning As Needed In Crisis (PANIC)
followed by hatcheries Synthesis In Nature (SIN)
and finally Restore Excellent Populations Emphasizing Native Trout (REPENT).

according to the author, they would go through regular cycles of FUCCUP, PANIC, SIN, and REPENT.

Looks like WA has the first part down pat, when do we REPENT?

IDF&G motto: "We're not happy til you're not happy."

Thought I would provide a link to a Montesano Vidette article on the legal action opposing the Willapa Non Tribal Gillnet seasons. It is a interesting read.


http://thevidette.com/sections/news/local/fight-over-gillnetting-gets-serious-heads-court.html

Those fishing Willapa have had limited success and I think I have the reason. So far this year the commercial nets have taken 9576 Chinook http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/commercial/salmon/landings.html and last year the total Commercial take was 9726 for the entire fall season. This time last year the Commercial catch was 6227 so you do the math. These are just the fish sold now and the agency does not care to release to the public the TOTAL impacts as the Wild Chinook captured in the nets and released have a 45% mortality in the harvest model. The true impact numbers are seldom released to the public and never put up on the WDF&W website.

Bottom line is little is getting through the Gillnet Armada! So much for Kirt Hughes provided court documents stating he would curtail commercial efforts if over harvest appeared to be a problem.

Since WB is a commercial "wipe-out" fishery, over-harvest will never be a problem.

That's the problem.

Salmo g -
If the WB commercial fishery is a "wipe-out" fishery why are both the recreational and commercial fishers required to release unclipped Chinook?

With substantial wild coho and chum returns with established escapement goals and a new found concern about wild Chinook (especially from the Naselle) wipe-out fisheries are not compatible with wild fish management even on Willapa Bay. Maybe that is part of the problem; continued feeding the commercial seasons/catches has to come at the expense of the recreational fishery or the wild fish.

Based on what I saw last week (Sunday, Monday and Tuesday) the current commercial season structure has contributed to a substantial reduction in the recreational effort. The pressure I say last week was 1/4 to 1/3 of what I would have seen 4 or 5 years ago. The South Bend launch was never full (in past years there would be lots of trailers parking along the highway). On Labor launching shortly after daylight we were the 4th trail in the lot. On Tuesday at high tide slack (the traditional peak catch period) I counted only 28 boats between South Bend and to the point west of Tokeland.

Curt

A WDFW administrator once told me, in reference to the Legislature, not to look at what they said or what laws they passed; look at where they put money. Those were the true priotities and showed "Legislative Intent."

If the achievement of escapement goals was truly a WDFW priority then the goals would be achieved more frequently than they are.

Smalma,

I hear ya' about the "intent" to manage for wild Naselle chinook and WB wild coho and chum, but it's hard to me to take it seriously when I see the commercial GN schedule. Like Carcassman points out, if wild escapement were a management priority, it would happen. It's still a wipe-out fishery to me.

Sg

Here is the CES that was filed with the CR 102 Supplemental creating the fall Non Treaty Gillnet seasons. Little different than they presented to anyone.

 Area 2A - Will be open from 7 am to 7 pm (12 hours) on one-day during the week beginning October 6, 2013 using tangle net gear only; 7 am to 7 pm on two-days in the week beginning October 20, 2013 using gill net gear; 7 am to 7 pm on one-day in the week beginning October 27, 2013 using gill net gear; and 6 pm to 6 pm each day for two-days each week in the weeks beginning November 3, 2013 and November 10, 2013 using gill net gear. This schedule for Areas 2A results in a total of 4 12-hour openings and 4 24-hour openings; these opening will occur concurrently with openings in Area 2D.
 Area 2B – closed. Area 2B is situated at the mouth of Grays Harbor. It has been closed since 2005 due to impacts to Grays Harbor chum and Chehalis River origin fall Chinook.
 Area 2C – Will be open 7 am to 7 pm (12 hours) each day for 2 days in week starting October 27, and 1 day each for weeks starting November 3 and November 10. The schedule in Area 2C is a total of 4 12-hours days.
 Area 2D - Will be open only in that portion of Area 2D east of a north-south line from the confluence of the Hoquiam and Chehalis rivers to Renney Island and north of an easterly line from Renney Island to Range Marker G located on the south shore of Grays Harbor from 7 am to 7 pm on one-day during the week beginning October 6, 2013 using tangle net gear only; remaining opening will occur in the entire area from7 am to 7 pm on two-days in the week beginning October 20, 2013 using gill net gear; 7 am to 7 pm on one-day in the week beginning October 27, 2013 using gill net gear; and 6 pm to 6 pm each day for two-days each week in the weeks beginning November 3, 2013 and November 10, 2013 using gill net gear. This schedule for Areas 2D results in a total of 4 12-hour openings and 4 24-hour openings; these opening will occur concurrently with openings in Area 2A.


Here are the changes side by side. Sorry about the lack of formatting but the first dates in each week are the proposed we knew about. The second is the latest.

Some commenters from the commercial fishing sector claimed that proposed WAC 220-36-023 as outlined in the final CR102 supplemental notice does not provide a meaningful opportunity to fish. They contend that Humptulips River Chinook are forecast at abundance large enough to provide full fishery opportunities. However, the current schedule does not provide any commercial fishing days in areas 2C, the northern portion of the Harbor. This is the area of the Harbor were Chinook impacts are primarily on Humptulips River origin Chinook. In response to the lack of commercial fishing opportunity on abundant Humptulips River Chinook, an alternative Grays Harbor commercial fishery schedule was submitted that provides opportunity for a commercial fishery in area 2C.
An alternative commercial fishing schedule was submitted to WDFW during the August 6, 2013 public hearing. The alternative schedule deviates slightly from the WDFW proposal by moving days later in the season resulting in a 2 tenths of 1 fish increase in impacts to Chehalis Basin natural spawning Chinook. In doing so, a total of 60-hours of fishing time were added in Areas 2A and 2D, and four 12-hour opening in Area 2C. This change would alter the schedule in terms of days of fishing (increased slightly), areas of fishing (increased) and change the type of gear (more gill net and less tangle net gear). When modeled, the proposed revisions to the season keep the conservation outcomes within the total Chehalis Basin natural spawning Chinook impacts available for the WDFW managed commercial fishery.
Below is a side-by-side comparison of the two alternatives. Daily openings in Areas 2A and 2D during October will occur 7:00am – 7:00pm (12 hours), during November the openers are 2 consecutive 48 hour periods which open and close at 6:00pm. In Area 2C, daily openings will occur 7:00am – 7:00pm (12 hours)

Areas 2A and 2D: WDFW Proposal Alternative
Week beginning (statistical week):
(41) October 6 2 (tangle net) 1 (tangle net)
(42) October 13 1 (tangle net) 0
(43) October 20 2 (tangle net) 2 (gillnet gear)
(44) October 27 2 (tangle net) 1 (gillnet gear)
(45) November 3 0 2 (gillnet gear)
(46) November 10 0 2 (gillnet gear)
Total openings (hours) 7 (84 hours) 8 (144 hours)

Area 2C: WDFW Proposal Alternative
Week beginning (statistical week):
(44) October 27 0 2 (gillnet gear)
(45) November 3 0 1 (gillnet gear)
(46) November 10 0 1 (gillnet gear)
Total openings (hours) 0 (0 hours) 4 (48 hours)

I was asked just what happened? WDF&W put into play a rule that had not been seen by anyone in the public hearings or NOF, that expands Chehalis netting from 7 days tangle nets (84 hours) to 8 days (144 hours) with only one day of tangle nets. Added four days in ( 2C ) which is the the Humptulips River area of the bay. So folks meet Grays Harbor fisheries management courtesy Mr Anderson.

If anyone had doubts as to how Region 6 functions under Ron Warren or the management philosophy of Jim Scot and Phil Anderson the doubt should disappear now.

Thank God... I think Grays Harbor just avoided an economic disaster of epic proportions, much like Pacific County did when WDFW heroically saved their immensely valuable commercial fishery in Willapa Bay last month. The law of the land said they were too late, but they came through, just the same, just as they always do.

It's a good thing WDFW is there to protect the well-being of our communities. Without the dozen or so brave souls wielding their gillnets out there, our economy would surely be in shambles. Were they not out there, we would have had sport fishermen from places far and wide crowding our hotels, buying tackle at local sporting goods stores, eating in local restaurants, buying gas from local retailers... The list of horrors goes on and on. Thanks to Warren, Hughes, Anderson, and all the little people, we will once again be spared.

In all seriousness, more and more, I think the reason we never get anywhere with our arguments that sport fishing generates far more revenue across the state than commercial fishing is that no matter how bad they screw us, we keep spending our money anyway, just for the CHANCE to catch a fish. Until that well dries up (and they are right to assume that, as long as there might be one fish swimming, it won't), our arguments about economic impacts will only make them laugh. Our passion for the sport we love is our ultimate weakness.

North of Falcon process is nothing but a sham. Lot's of meetings, then to have Phil and his State paid dilo's do what ever they want...and the want is heavy on the side of the non treaty netters.

Don't anyone tell me that the North of Falcon process is a fair way to divide up the resource. Hell, Region 6 blows all the smoke about the goals of fish management then to have many of the rivers in Region 6 not make escapement year after year.

I was at the North of Falcon meetings and even some of the "special hand picked group meetings"........the schedule as it is now WAS NOT TALKED about.....

Shame on you Phil, Ron, Curt and Barb.......Hope all of you "back up to the pay window"...cause you sure don't deserve the monies you supposedly work for.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/2013/wsr_13-19-027.pdf


"No negative impacts to recreational harvest opportunity were identified."

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Bass turds... dirty bass turds!

"No negative impacts to recreational harvest opportunity were identified."

Sounds like river recreational fisheries continue to be at best secondary fisheries that are only given access to those fish that are not caught in the "nets" or marine recreational fisheries.

Thought the following was insightful -

"The principal reason for adopting the
changes is that they are responsive to comments provided by commercial industry representatives during the last comment period associated with the rule making process, while
maintaining appropriate conservation and harvest opportunity allocation objectives."

Have to wonder if they would nearly as responsive to comments provided to the recreational during the last comment period.

Curt

Perhaps the comments were in the form of campaign donations to the appropriate legislators.

Curt:

I was there.........none of what I remember "sports" asking for.....got in..

It is very apparent to me that "Region 6 WDFW and the cowboys" are sleeping in the same bed......that includes PA.

I mean to go from 100% tangle nets, no cowboy netting on Humptulips side, to the gill season as it is now ....... "the fix was in".

QIN and WDFW can't get together, on netting season....latest ever on posting......We have major problems in Grays Harbor and Willapa. Commission needs to take a VERY close look, at allowing 1 person, PA, to have the power to control fisheries. Lot's of games being played, thousands of hours spent, thousands of $$$$$$$ spent only to be told, BASICALLY, F. YOU, we are going to weight the fishery, toward the cowboys.

Drifter -
I agree given the current situation the best option to get serious discussion on priority changes for the two bay recreational fisheries is via the Commission's North of Falcon policies.

Curt