Sure would like to hear from one of the State or Tribal fisheries experts on this.

Salmo, as a Fed, watched this. I, from inside WDFW, saw the same thing.bOpen up habitat and keep the same goal. Or find ways to justify reductions. Rivrguy can report on a conversation where R6 noted that any increases in production from habitat restoration would be taken as catch. Yeah, they have no interest in more escapement especially of it comes at the cost of dead fish in the boat.

Don’t remember just which meeting CM but do remember the statement. I will share this through. My team had one of the best volunteers I have ever seen. He did many things administratively and then set about fencing off the stream that ran through his property. Followed by getting his neighbors to do the same and this was quality work absolutely as good as it gets. Then late one night he calls with a question. It seems he was at a meeting of some sorts with a tribal bio speaking. His question was if all the work done to help the habitat and this resulted in 500 more spawners in his creek does mean more fish in the upper basin?

I was a bit confused by his question as he kept coming back to the same point, the escapement goal. Then the light bulb came on. I replied in a pure theoretical exercise if after harvest his creek gets 500 spawners where only 50 were there prior then other streams in the basin would have 450 harvested as the escapement goal is the baseline. So he said all their work would not get more fish back in the basin as a whole but any gains go for harvest? Correct was my reply followed by his response “I quit” which he did.

You see guys the backside of habitat restoration is any gains will not go to the natural order but rather harvest. When you see statements promoting salmon restoration it is about restoring harvest levels to prior years, it is not about restoring any salmon above the escapement goal.

After that late night call from JM I never encouraged folks to do habitat restoration. I still feel it is one of the most rewarding things one can do to help fish as long as you realize any gains in natural production are going into harvest not natural production. Some call it the great habitat scam! I am not sure I buy into that one but there is one hell of a lot of dishonesty and PC BS around habitat restoration, purpose, and outcome.

Add to it that nearly half of Grays Harbor Chinook are taken in Alaska and British Columbia before they reach the harbor any habitat work for Chinook in the Chehalis Basin is a fool’s errand. Until you have harvest reform anything citizens do will do little for fish.

“the backside of habitat restoration is any gains will not go to the natural order but rather harvest.”

Plain to see, but damn, somebody buy this man a beer. Can’t imagine a better way to say it. As has been mentioned on here already, until escapement goals or harvest are addressed, what the hell are we doing?

Alaskan Trawlers seem to be gaining more notoriety, at least in my social media echo-chamber, but trollers are still viewed as good ole mom and pop businesses operating in a sustainable fashion.

Another thing I have noticed is the all out PR push on the culvert replacement issue. The local newspaper has had several articles and information for public is a good thing. The downside is that it is clear those reporting know little about Chehalis streams or salmon. Like I said only Wildcat Cr. near McCleary is a salmon and Steelhead stream. The rest are not. It is good to remove blockages on HWY 8 for all sorts of creatures but to do it with the thought they will benefit salmon is a reach of epic porportions. And to think the work benefits Chinook is well past 100% grade A BS!

The agency is moving ahead with a new GH Policy.

Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission
July 31, 2024
Contact: Commission Office, 360-902-2267



Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission to meet Aug. 8-10 in Olympia
OLYMPIA, WA – The Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission will hold a hybrid meeting in Olympia Aug. 8-10 to consider land transactions in Yakima and Skamania counties, decide on Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) budget requests, and receive updates on state fish and wildlife management.

The meeting will be held at the Natural Resources Building in Olympia and will also be live-streamed, with webinar access available on the Commission webpage.

The Commission will convene Thursday, Aug. 8, for Big Tent, Fish, Habitat, and Wildlife committee meetings. The Big Tent Committee is scheduled to discuss the draft Conservation and Best Available Science policies, current public input rules, and the Public Trust Doctrine. Agenda topics for the Fish Committee include Grays Harbor salmon and coastal Dungeness crab management. The Habitat and Wildlife committees will visit wildlife crossing areas to learn about opportunities for habitat connectivity. Due to limited parking and safety, the field trip will not be open to the general public. The committees are traveling separately and will not reach a quorum.

The full Commission meeting will begin Friday, Aug. 9, with an open public input opportunity followed by a report from WDFW Director Kelly Susewind and Coastal Region Director Heather Hall. The Commission will decide on proposed land transactions for conservation easement properties at Wenas Black Canyon in Yakima County and Moss Cave in Skamania County.

The Commission will also decide on WDFW’s requests for the 2025 legislative session and 2025-27 operating and capital budget proposals. In the afternoon, the Commission will hear staff briefings on the State Wildlife Action Plan, the Wildlife Diversity Division’s work to conserve and recover Species of Greatest Conservation Need, proposed rules for trapping and beaver relocation, and Grays Harbor salmon management.

The Commission will reconvene Saturday, Aug. 10, with an open public input opportunity. The Commission will then decide on a process for petitions, have a meeting debrief, and discuss future meeting agendas before moving to executive session.

Those interested in providing verbal public comment during the meeting, either in-person in Olympia or remotely via webinar or phone, must register in advance.
All members of the public are invited to share their perspectives and participate in WDFW public feedback opportunities regardless of race, color, sex, age, national origin, language proficiency, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity and/or expression, status as a veteran, or basis of disability.

The full meeting agenda, including information about submitting public comment and accessing the hybrid meeting online or by phone, is available on the WDFW website. The meeting will be recorded and published on the Commission webpage so the public can watch afterward at their convenience.

The Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission is a panel appointed by the governor that sets policy for WDFW. WDFW works to preserve, protect, and perpetuate fish, wildlife, and ecosystems while providing sustainable fish and wildlife recreational and commercial opportunities.



________________________________________

Help me understand.
Any fish number gains from restoration become a direct and equal increase in harvest numbers?
Non are left for seed?

Bingo.

any above the escapement goal and mortalities from users targeting other fish. There is zero intent to expand the escapement goal or use new habitat produced fish for the fish. Always key words are escapement goal.

Another point on EG's is that they are based on fish. Coatstwide we are seeing a decrease in adult salmon sizes. This year, Bristol sockeye were, for example, small. And we know Chinook are shrinking. Fecundity, the number of eggs per female, is directly related to size. Smaller female, less eggs. Fewer eggs means fewer fry. So, maintaining the numerical goal on smaller fish means you put less eggs in the gravel which means fewer returning adults. Vicious circle leading to smaller runs of smaller fish and smaller fisheries.

Ever wonder CM how the thought process of the harvest managers work? Harvest the marine food chain top to bottom, in the marine harvest Chinook in a manner decreasing the % of 5 / 6/ 7 year old spawners ( chinook ) and set escapement goals based on whatever as mostly they know little about eco needs. Then cry about decreasing size and numbers and the many species that struggle. Pour billions into habitat that is normaly good work but seldom if ever stops the downward trend. Anyone who has been around salmonid issues and has an IQ over .0001 knows this is a train wreck in slow motion!

Silos. Nuclear-hardened silos that force you to consider only one thing. Seen it all through my career. When there were issues on the Nisqually between steelhead and chum, the WDG rep stated that his agency would only consider the needs of steelhead. All you all may have noticed that the big driver of all salmonid issues is "the ocean", which means that the Big Blue controls it all but in mysterious ways. So, we don't need to nibble on the "edges".

For whatever reason, we assume that "the habitat", whether it be the creek or the estuary, or ocean in no way constrains food resources. It may be too warm, or cold, or no LWD, too salty, and so on. But the food resources are unlimited. And, like the old hatchery/wild conflicts -a fish is a fish is a fish. So, a belly full of anchovy is equal nutritionally to a belly full of herring. It's not, but that is the way to believe.

At the end of the day, blaming the ocean absolves managers and the political leaders from making politically and economically difficult decisions. There is a ton of data that shows the massive AK pink program is damaging fish and wildlife resources in the whole western hemisphere. The pollack trawl fishery bycatch issues are the same. The managers list climate change as the only problem, so they don't need to change.

Harvest managers manage harvest, so they manage what "is," not what could be. For example, when we habitat management types were planning the recovery and enhancement of Baker sockeye, HM didn't have that salmon stock on their radar screen. For good reason. The population had been on the verge of functional extinction for long enough that they had no reason to think about it. Easy peasy. No run forecasting, no planning, no nothing.

With the new fish passage system came significantly enhanced run sizes that caught HM by surprise with no plan for what to do. The Skagit tribes, on the other hand, had been anticipating this for years and had a simple, but effective, in season run size estimation method in place. The Tribes knew what they wanted, and when NT sport fishermen saw the Baker dam count, they knew that they wanted a piece of the action. WDFW constructed a "new silo" to deal with Baker sockeye HM, but not until there were fish to put in the net and in the tote.

Back in the early 90s, before merger, WDW and the Tribes were developing a steelhead management (?) plan. It said, clearly, that the purpose of fish management was to provide harvest. It also said that the escapement goal was the number of fish that couldn't be caught so that a sustainable harvest could continue.

A good example today is and article in the Daily World today on habitat projects in Grays Harbor this year. Public awareness is a good thing now the otherside of the coin. Most if not all benefit Coho and maybe Steelhead not Chinook. Next the Chehalis Basin has solid Coho and Chinook stocks. Chinook hang out at about escapement but that is after nearly 50% of any given years return is harvested in Alaka & British Columbia. Steelhead it is simply years of tribal neeting and non treaty Rec harvest have done the damage. If there ever was a fish you cannot harvest with a gillnet it is Steelhead and the tribe owns this one.

So if you look at the money being spent including the freeway fiasco fixing salmon blockages that are not salmon streams what happens when the money dries up? Which it will. The Chehalis Basin will be just like it is now. The millions spent will produce few fish any it does create will just be part of harvest. The cost per spawner I cannot begin to imagine! What is sadder is other parts of the state with ESA or severly depressed stocks will continue to decline until at some point the courts will drop the hammer and fishing for all will become a memory. Right along with many stocks of fish.

It's a damn shame, but it is what we, as a society, actually want to do.

You jnow this gentleman has really zeroed in on a whole lot of BS going on with habitat.



Road projects create the legend of the paper salmon

Pat Neal

The Daily World

As goodwill ambassadors of the tourist industry, it is our civic duty to share our precious local knowledge of the Olympic Peninsula with our foreign visitors in a manner that celebrates the diversity of our heritage and the promise of our vibrant future.


Answering tourist questions gives the locals an opportunity to enrich the visitor experience in a manner that fosters a greater understanding of the ecosystem as a whole and the management of our natural resources for the benefit of us all.


If you can fake that, you may have a future in the tourist industry. Until they ask a question like “why do loggers wear suspenders?” — triggering a regrettable relapse in my anger management program.


Often tourists will ask, “Where is the rainforest?” when they are standing in the middle of it. Or they will ask, “How deep is the river?” When it’s common knowledge by now that all of our rivers are constructed to a specific depth that is maintained by government agencies throughout the length of the stream the whole year round. Or should be.


Often, by answering tourist questions in a sincere and compassionate manner, it is possible to lay to rest deep-seated anxieties that haunt our visitors.That was the case of a recent tourist who confided their belief that the Olympic Peninsula was a dangerous place because there are too many vampires and sasquatch. They had done their research. Proving a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.


The vampires and sasquatch are only the tip of the preternatural iceberg that awaits tourists in the rugged hinterland of the Olympics, where an unholy alliance of vampires, sasquatch and werewolves lie in wait for the visitor. Know before you go. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of revenge.

As with any wilderness journey, the proper gear can make the difference between survival and a lost weekend in a rain-soaked hellscape.You wouldn’t walk to the North Pole without snowshoes. So don’t go hiking in the Olympics without a good supply of garlic to wrap around your neck for the vampires, silver bullets to shoot into the werewolf hearts and sasquatch repellent to keep the creatures from raiding your grub box. ’Nuff said.

Lately we have been subjected to an even more confusing tourist question that even has some of the locals confused. “Why are they tearing up the roads?” This refers to the road destruction projects throughout western Washington that has us spending a million dollars a day replacing culverts that are believed to be barriers to salmon migration.

Washington is home to five species of salmon: the king or chinook, coho aka silver, the chum or dog salmon, the humpie or pink salmon and the sockeye salmon. While the runs of these fish were once referred to as “inexhaustible,” the effective management by state and federal agencies has transformed many of these salmon into threatened and/or endangered species.

This opened the floodgates of federal funding, allowing us to introduce a legendary new species of salmon to our fair state, the paper salmon. While these imaginary fish may only exist in the minds of biologists, politicians and bureaucrats, they are worth millions of dollars to the salmon restoration industry.

Though these barren streams may run off a cliff and have never seen a real salmon run up them, the legend of the paper salmon allows the state to rip up the road to restore passage for these imaginary salmon anyway.

We hope this answers that question.

As to why loggers wear suspenders, it’s to keep their pants up, of course.

Pat Neal is a Hoh River fishing and rafting guide and “wilderness gossip columnist” whose column appears here every Thursday. He can be reached at 360-683-9867 or by email via patnealproductions@gmail.com.

Paper fish are much cleaner than real fish; they aren't slimy, they don't rot and stink up the place, and are much more suitable for cubicles.

This email from WDFW is about the Grays Harbor Policy review. https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/policies/grays-harbor-basic-salmon-management-policy

In a nutshell they sorta keep the principles in the old policy but not the sideboards that the old policy did to govern harvest. More or less leaves it up to WDFW staff to define that year by year.


Good morning,

The Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission is seeking public input on possible revisions to its Grays Harbor Basin Salmon Management policy.

The Grays Harbor Basin Salmon Management Policy provides guidance to the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) to promote conservation of salmon in Grays Harbor as well as the economic well-being and stability of commercial and recreational fishing in Washington.

First adopted in February of 2014, the policy expired in December of 2023, and a formal policy revision process began in 2024. Department staff met with the Fish and Wildlife Commission in June and August 2024 to provide a performance review of the expired policy and offer recommendations for revisions. The proposed changes aim to enable flexible and adaptive management, use the best available science, and align more closely with the newly approved Willapa Bay Salmon Management Policy. The final draft policy is now available for public review and comment.

To learn more or submit a comment on the Grays Harbor Basin Salmon Management Policy, visit WDFW’s webpage where you will find the comment portal.

The comment period is open through September 15, 2024, and a virtual regional meeting will be held to discuss the Grays Harbor Basin Salmon Management Policy revisions on September 4, 2024, from 6-7:30pm. The Commission is expected to further discuss the Policy at its September meeting. To view details of past or upcoming Commission meetings, visit the Commission webpage.

A press release will follow shortly.

Thank you for your interest in Grays Harbor Basin Salmon Management,

Marlene Wagner
South Coast Policy Lead
Marlene.wagner@dfw.wa.gov

FISH AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION
POLICY DECISION
_______________________________________________________________________

Here is cut and paste of the draft of the NEW policy but go to the website to read also as working through a bunch of crap to get this in a post and hopefully I got it right.

FISH AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION
POLICY DECISION
______________________________________________________________________________
Purpose
The purpose of this Policy is to set management objectives and to provide management
guidance for natural (in-river) and hatchery production, and recreational and commercial
harvest of spring and fall Chinook, coho, and chum salmon populations in the Grays Harbor
Basin.

Authority Definition and Intent
This Policy is established by the Washington State Fish and Wildlife Commission (Commission)
and is applicable to the management by the Washington State Department of Fish and Wildlife
(Department) of spring and fall Chinook, coho, and chum salmon (salmon) in the Grays Harbor
Basin as the Commission's interpretation of the Commission and Department mandate
described in RCW 77.04.112.

The intent of this Policy is to provide guidance for the management of natural- and hatcheryorigin production, and recreational and commercial harvest of salmon in the Grays Harbor
Basin. The Grays Harbor Basin is defined as Grays Harbor and its freshwater tributaries.
Management of natural- and hatchery-origin production and harvest will be transparent and
consistent with normal agency operations and existing agency and Commission policies (e.g., C3624).

Policy Objectives
These policy objectives are a statement of the Commission's values and vision for the future
conditions of Grays Harbor environment, the salmon populations in Grays Harbor, and the
recreational and commercial fishing opportunities in the marine and freshwaters of Grays
Harbor Basin.

1. Productive natural-spawning populations that are locally adapted, diverse genetically
to maintain adaptability, and occur in densities appropriate for the local environment.

2. Sustainable fishing levels for both recreational and commercial fisheries that
maximize harvest opportunities.

3. Management actions associated with harvest, hatchery production1, and naturalorigin escapement adhere to ecosystem-based management principles that consider the
risks and benefits to species and habitats within the Grays Harbor Basin system,including vulnerabilities to a changing climate.
Adaptive Management

Each year appropriate data (performance measures; see below) on commercial and recreational harvest, and natural- and hatchery- origin escapement into the rivers of Grays Harbor will be collected and evaluated. These data and subsequent analyses must be used to
determine if the policy objectives are being achieved. If objectives are not being optimally achieved, harvest and hatchery production levels should be altered, and escapement goals reevaluated until objectives are optimally achieved. Monitoring, data collection, and data analyses are conducted as part of normal agency operations, and the adaptive management process allows for changes in commercial and recreational harvest, and natural-origin escapement goals without approval from the Commission.

Guidance:
The Department will apply the following principles in the management of salmon in the Grays
Harbor Basin:

1) Promote the conservation of salmon by managing fisheries consistent with conservation
objectives.

2) Meet the terms of U.S. v. Washington, with spawning escapement goals and fisheries
developed and jointly agreed to with the Quinault Indian Nation. The Department shall seek agreement with the Quinault Indian Nation to manage fisheries with the intent of meeting salmon spawner goals for the Grays Harbor Basin.

3) Calculate performance measures (e.g., proportion of natural spawners that are of hatcheryorigin – pHOS) that estimate the consequence of a specific management action with respect toone or more of the policy objectives. This will allow for appropriate monitoring of managementactions and facilitate adaptive management, if necessary. 4) Develop and improve, evaluate,
and implement in-season fishery management models, procedures, and management measuresthat are projected to enhance the effectiveness of fishery management relative to preseason
predictions.

5) Work with partners (including Regional Fishery Enhancement Groups, Office of the ChehalisBasin, nonprofit organizations, the public, and Lead Entities) to protect and restore habitat
productivity.

6) In a manner consistent with conservation objectives, the Department shall seek to enhance the overall economic well-being and stability of Grays Harbor Basin fisheries.

7) Recreational and WFDW-managed commercial fisheries shall be structured (e.g., schedule,location, gear) to minimize gear and other fishery conflicts. WDFW-managed commercial fisheries in a fishing area or aggregate area (i.e., Area 2A/2B/2D; or Area 2C) shall be scheduled with the understanding of the importance of providing periods of unobstructed passage for salmon into freshwater habitats.

8) Harvest management:
a. State commercial and recreational fisheries will focus on the harvest of hatchery fish. As a general policy, the Department shall implement mark-selective salmon fisheries, unless the wild populations substantially affected by the fishery are meeting spawner (e.g., escapement goals) and broodstock management objectives. In addition, the Department may consider avoidance, alternative gears, or other selective fishing concepts along with other management approaches provided they are as or more effective than a mark- selective fishery in achieving spawner and broodstock management objectives. State commercial fisheries that encounter stocks that are forecasted to be below escapement objectives will utilize gear types that provide the most conservation benefit (e.g., tangle nets).

b. The Department shall work through the Pacific Salmon Commission to promote the conservation of Grays Harbor salmon and, in a manner consistent with the provisions of the Pacific Salmon Treaty, pursue the implementation of fishery management actions necessary to achieve policy objectives.

c. Within the Pacific Fishery Management Council (Council) process, the Department shc. Within the Pacific Fishery Management Council (Council) process, the Department shall
support management measures that promote the attainment of Grays Harbor policy
objectives consistent with the Council's Salmon Fishery Management Plan.

d. The Department shall conduct Management Strategy Evaluations for stocks to evaluate alternative harvest control rules. Until such actions are implemented, the Department shall use the current natural spawner escapement goals:

i. Chehalis spring Chinook: 1,400
ii. Chehalis fall Chinook: 9,753
iii. Humptulips fall Chinook: 3,573
iv. Chehalis coho: 28,506
v. Humptulips coho: 6,894
vi. Grays Harbor chum: 21,000

e. Fishery Management: Subject to the provisions of the Adaptive Management section,the following species-specific sections describe the presumptive path for achieving conservation objectives. Grays Harbor fisheries will be structured to result in a fair sharing of harvestable fish between WDFW-managed commercial, marine recreational, and freshwater recreational fisheries. Mixed stock fisheries, WDFW marine commercial, recreational, and lower mainstem Chehalis River recreational fisheries will be managed
to the extent that they do not preclude tributary recreational fisheries. WDFW-managedfisheries shall not result in an impact of more than 5% of the return when the naturalorigin adult return exceeds the spawner objective by less than 10%.

i. Spring Chinook Salmon: Fisheries will be managed with the intent of achievingescapement goals for natural-origin spring Chinook.

ii. Fall Chinook Salmon: Fisheries will be managed with the intent of achieving escapement goals for natural-spawning1 fall Chinook. The WDFW commercial fishery will be managed to incidental harvest only of fall Chinook during fisheries directed at coho and chum salmon.
iii. Coho Salmon: Fisheries will be managed with the intent of achieving escapement goals for natural-spawning1 coho salmon. Provisions within the Pacific Salmon Treaty may prompt further restrictions when forecasted abundances are in the “low abundance category”.

iv. Chum Salmon: Fisheries will be managed with the intent of achieving
escapement goals for natural-origin chum salmon.

9. Annual Fishery Management Review. The Department shall annuallymanagement tools and parameters and identify improvements as necessary to accurately predict fishery performance and escapement.

Delegation of Authority
The Commission delegates the authority to the Director, through the North of Falconstakeholder consultation process, to set seasons for recreational and WDFW-managed commercial fisheries in Grays Harbor, to adopt permanent and emergency regulations to
implement these fisheries, and to make harvest agreements with treaty tribes and other government agencies. The Commission fully expects that the Director and agency staff will continue to communicate with the public, and the Commission, to consider new information, evaluate alternate means for carrying out policy objectives, and consider instances in which it may make sense to deviate from the presumptive path forward. That is the nature of both adaptive management and policy implementation, when faced with a dynamic natural enviroment.