I have had these ponderings from reading other posts and thinking to myself,...

1, If all men are created equal, then why do them damn redskins get to net salmon & steelhead (even during "Emergency closures", shoot cow elk during the calving period (same to deer), claim that killing whales is a tradition, even though we used to shoot Indians for tradition and we sure as hell can't do it know, boust about killing hundreds of waterfowl A NIGHT and be patted on the shoulder of a "authority"

2. Why not make a spinning reel with a spinning spool?, just like a baitcaster but you can cast without the backlash. And just make the (forgot the word) wire around the spool less friction-less and stays in one place untill you want to flip it up to make a cast

More to come..............

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To Hell with the Antis!

C.D

found the word, Bail

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To Hell with the Antis!

C.D

Deep thoughts, snowchuck. Hope you didn't hurt yourself.

[Bleeeeep!] OFF DICKHEAD. I EVER SEE YOU ON A RIVER I'LL SHOW YOU WHAT INDIANS DO TO HOQUATS LIKE YOU. ALL YOU SMALL MINDS THINK ALIKE.

Bye Sloth

Please, ponder no more Snowchuck. And by the way, if you want to edit your message you can click on the button called "edit". D'oh!!

....BOOKUM DANO or in this case the really BIG ONE see ya SLOTH I guess the list of people you want to meet on the river just got a little bigger.... SEE YA
What was it that he said that made you so angry .....Oh ya he was wrong to use the term Redskin ( what not a football fan?) but the rest was not too far from the truth...
a little sensitive aren't ya
forgive him ladies $#@*&&*& I can't type I'm laughing too hard

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Row Quietly and fish a Cataraft }<<(('>-- --<'))>>{
Release all Wild Fish

[This message has been edited by Osprey (edited 06-09-2000).]

Another thing to ponder...Why do avid salmon and steelhead anglers put grey whales on the same level as native steelhead? Why do we care what the Makahs are doing when the grey whale population is overpopulated, starving and washing up on our shorelines in record numbers?

OSPREY, MORE LIKE TURKEY VULTURE, YOU PICK UP WHAT US INDIANS LEAVE TO YOU.

Dont worry sloth after 5th grade things will start looking up--

take it easy brah

Nice talk Sloth or is it slob.There are kids that read this.I really don't think that bashing other people or useing foul language or makeing threats are really needed,we have enough proplems without that.I think the next time you want to ponder you ought to keep it too yourself,and sloth the next time you feel like threating someone go chase a whale!!!!.Cus no one cares!!!!

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Bob Dawson


[This message has been edited by dawhunt (edited 06-09-2000).]

[This message has been edited by dawhunt (edited 06-09-2000).]

All,

Never wanted to hurt sloth-boys feelings, but ts to that!. Also , sorry but forgot to mention they use .50 calibars to finish the whales off, ..... To me it would be okay if they ONLY used the spears that they made like they did in the oldin' days, but using something like that is pretty dang ridiculus, speciially I don't think it is legal to own a .50 in the U.S without a military or guncollectos permit?, I dunno I saw this someare can't reamember, as for my ponderin' days???, .......You never know, Hey hears one!.

3. I heard of a Clubbing of salmon in the name of genetic purity from WDFG?, read 4 articales about it and I still can't get there name right!!, or if they were punished or at least a slap on the wrist?, or a yelling from there mom?. I hope they at least went to hungry people , that would have sorta saved there butts.

I am not Trying to piss people off, just stating a Teens view on things at the moment, gee I bet you never thought we "dang wipper-snappers new so much?

as to slothy boy , sorry about the skins burn.

Sincerely,

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To Hell with the Antis!

C.D

Hey sloth!,

read your 2nd post about Vultures!,ha ha ha!, well to me arn't you the real Vulture? , getting your fill + more and kicking the diffrent animals out?, anin't very "traditional" fishing 10 feet from a ladder to a fish hatchery!! .

Hey osprey, were's that edit button?, looked but couldn't find, thanks,

I SEE, YOU ACTUALLY MADE IT TO SIXTH GRADE. THINGS ARE ALREADY LOOKING UP, COME JULY 1, I'M GOING OUT TO ONE OF YOUR FAVORITE HUNTING AREAS AND KILLING THE BIGGEST BULL ELK IN THE AREA. LIFE IS GOOD ISN'T IT!
IF YOU WAN'T TO TALK FISHING, IT'S TOO BAD YOUR NOT A QUINAULT INDIAN, YOU COULD FISH THE BEST FISHERY IN THE LOWER 48 FOR STEELHEAD BUT IF YOU COUGH UP 300 BUCKS I'M SURE YOU COULD HAVE SOME INDIAN GUIDE TAKE YOU AND SHOW YOU HOW TO FISH. I LAUGH MY ASS OFF EVERY TIME I GO TO THE BANK, BUT IF YOU WANT THE BEST YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR IT. IT'S ALL IN FUN, MY BEST FRIEND IS A WHITE MAN, HELL I EVEN MARRIED A WHITE WOMAN. GOD FORGIVE ME. (I MEAN GREAT SPIRIT.)

While there was some legitimate basis in your original post Snowchuck I think you could have choosen some less offensive wording. And I have never seen any evidence of legitimate content or signs of human-like intelligence in any of this Sloth guy's posts. Has anyone? I have fished with and visited with several good people of full Native American (Indian) ancestorage. Same with good people with full African ancestorage. It's a shame that many of them, such as Sloth, are so utterly hateful racist and blamist, along with having such lowlife self-esteem that they are an embarrassment to the human race, much let alone their own race of people! It's unfortunate that I have witnessed such a high percentage of African Americans with these wrongful attitudes that contribute to keeping them where they want to escape from. I haven't been around as many Indians as Blacks. What percentage of NW Indians have such a pitiful attitude as this Sloth creature? I'm starting to wonder even more because of the Ungodly unfairness and animosity shown to primarily white caucasion sportfishmen by Columbia Tribal leaders. LEADERS! What's up with them. Do they harbor such transfered hatred for what the ancestors of only some of us white people did to their ancestors in another lifetime, that they are in jeopardy of ruining their lives over it? Same question for Blacks. With all the special benefits you've been given by modern primarily white leaders in this country, WHY do you continue to harber such non-basis counterproductive hostile attitudes toward white people??? And where is that getting you??? Sloth or other minorities, please clue us in so some healing might take place! ..shtick

SNOWCHUCK, YOU ARE THE FOOL'S THAT FISH THERE, AND PAY FOR IT. MONEY IS MONEY AND YOU PAY FOR IT. THE MORE POWER TO ME. CHA CHING- CHA CHING. YOU WANT TO FISH HERE I DON'T CARE. WE ARE THE ONLY PLACE YOU CAN COME AND CATCH 50+ STEELHEAD A DAY. HELL BEFORE YOU GUYS STARTED COMING DOWN I USE TO GO AND CATCH A 100 PLUS STEELHEAD A DAY AND LET THEM ALL GO. THE QUINAULT'S ARE THE BEST FISH MANAGERS IN THE STATE AND EVERYONE THAT COMES DOWN HERE TO FISH KNOWS IT. WHERE ELSE DO YOU SEE 28 POUND HATCHERY STEELHEAD? IF YOU GUYS DON'T SEE THE POINT OF ME GETTING PISSED OFF OF ANOTHER GUY SAYING ABOUT KILLING OTHER HUMAN BEINGS AND NOT SAYING SOMETHING ABOUT IT, GOD HELP YOU. MY PEOPLE GAVE UP THIS HOLE COUNTRY SO THAT THEIR WOMEN AND CHILDREN WOULDN'T BE KILLED BY "YOUR BRAVE SOLDIERS" AND ALL WE ASK IS FOR YOU TO HONOR THE TREATIES THAT WE SIGNED TO PROTECT OUR RIGHTS. WE WILL GIVE UP OUR RIGHTS IF YOU RETURN ALL THE LAND THAT YOU TOOK. THINK OF ALL WE GAVE UP TO PROTECT OUR WAY OF LIFE. AS FOR THE 50 CAL. THAT WAS FOR THE WHITE PEOPLE AND THE BLEEDING HEARTS WHO DON'T WANT THE WHALE TO SUFFER.

FISHTICK, I ONLY DISAGREE WITH PEOPLE WHO BASH MY PEOPLE. WHAT AM I SUPPOSE TO DO, SIT AROUND AND TAKE IT ON THE CHIN LIKE A GOOD INJUN? NOT!!!!!!!. MY BEST FRIEND IS A WHITE MAN AND HE WAS MY BEST MAN IN MY WEDDING TO A WHITE WOMAN. I'M NOT A RACIST, I JUST DON'T LIKE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT KILLING MY PEOPLE. UNDERSTAND? I'M SURE YOU WOULD IF THE SHOE WAS ON THE OTHER FOOT.

You are not a racist Sloth? You say "I'll show you what an Indian will do to a Hoquat" white guy. Gee, what's that then? And you clearly demonstrate a rub it in your face 'tude about the fishing advantages given to your people by the white majority goverment. And I sure don't see anyone talking about killing any Indians over their rub it in our faces unfair fishing advantages. YET. I only read the unfortunate wording of one individual's (Snowchuck) attempt to put in perspective how outdated the Indian Treaties and modern take of fish & game are by saying that his ancestors used to shoot Indians but aren't allowed to anymore, so Indian fish & game overkill shouldn't be either. That was perspective, NOT a threat. YET. And don't conveniently forget that Native American Indian history before the arrival of Euros was fraught with Indian wars over land aquisition. If it were even possible to give back land that was taken, within the natural laws of that time which was survival of the fittest, should we then search intensely for any possible remaining ancestors of Indian Tribes that had land taken from them by stronger Tribes and give all the land to them??? Then the ancestors of your stronger Tribes and ancestors of Euros that also took Indian land as the stronger Tribes did, should then have to find land perhaps in Siberia or somewhere? Leaving the North American continent only to the ancestors of the weakest of Indian Tribes and the ancestors of white Euros that never did have anything to do with Indian wars or mistreatment (like mine)? There are a whole lot more of us than you have ever thought about Sloth! I'm one of them. My white ancestors came over here after the Indian Treaties were foolishly obtained and signed. The true history, that you and many Indians won't acknowledge, is that your stronger ancestors that had conquered and killed off entire other Tribes were then conquered by stronger "white" Tribes of Euros. Only the Euros didn't just kill off all the Indians as many of your Indian ancestors did. They gave them some land and fishing rights. Can you imagine many ancestor Indians having that overfair attitude in the worldwide climate of survival of the fittest during that era of history, both humans and animals?? I think not. So get over the mentality that "your" ancestors "owned" this continent. Possesion by any means was the LAW OF THE LAND FOR BOTH INDIAN ANCESTORS, EURO ANCESTORS, and even animals at that time. "Your" people were lucky to have gotten what they did after they were conquered by more powerful people. It's unfair that people today have to suffer the consequences of shortsighted Treaties that should have died with the times! ..shtick

You know, I'm to the point anymore I hate it when the mud slinging starts on here. But what I hate more is people who SPEAK and don't think before they do it. First, the redskin remark shouldn't have been said, but to bash back Sloth is as lower, if not lower then Snowchuck's. Second Sloth, think before you speak. 100 fish day huh? Let's calculate that one. By net, oh yes possible. Rod and line, highly doubtful. I've fished some of the big rivers during the last of the hay days of the 70's/early 80's and a 30 fish day was a LONG hard workout day. If you catch one fish EVERY cast and play it 5 minutes (which to fight and land a fish in 5 minutes is pretty damned good only if you're using snag gear) you'd land appx. 100 fish in around 9 HOURS. I'm sorry, but that's pushing it, and I've read enough articles and fished with enough good fisherman to know that a 20/30 fish day is pretty stiff and time consuming. Thirdly, guides are guides. Not all indian guides are good and produce hookups. I know enough customers through my job that have told me countless tales about guides who'll anchor up in the holes on the Quinault. I keep hearing about a good guide named Joe I do believe, he's knowledgeable, but for the most part alot of them are crappy. Just like the white guides, for every good guide you have you'll get another 50 crappy ones. So your reply holds no merit there. Then, purposely slaughtering elks like that holds no merit either. It shows no dignity. If you want to defend yourself against his remark, class is only way, not mudslinging back. But what's the worse is you're bringing up the treaties and the "we'll give up our rights if you give up our land". That's a load of crap and everyone knows it. Hey, read history. Divide and conquer has been happening since dawn of time. I'm just surprised that treaties were signed at all. Most conquering nations eliminate, not deal. Alot of the land around here was "stolen" by the French I do believe. We purchased the Louisiana Territory from someone else, then the US did the surveying on it, then clearing of it. The US was not the ONLY country to "steal". Yet, we're the ones most blamed (since we're the ones still living here). The English, the French, the Spaniards, Russians, and alot of Misc countries had shares of landtracks in the US. I'm sorry, but you know, I lived off the Puyallup Indian reservation. I grew up with numerous Indians and have a little Indian in me. But, for pete's sake, just GROW UP. High spirit my butt. There are SOOOOOO few Indians who actually practice the old ways. It's all a facade to get what is wanted and needed from the government. It's funny, I could build wooden canoes and boats, but not ONE Indian I knew on the Puyallup Indian reservation could still build one, or even build a traditional net (not saying that there weren't any, but none I knew, and that was alot) I'm tired of the BS. The Quinaults do have an awesome fishery, I'll admit that. I feel if our hatcheries were run by PRIVATE companies, they'd run more efficient. I've said that for years. Ok, I'm rambling now, but, everyone just needs to chill out. But, Sloth, your replies only add to the fire. If you gave some decent reponses that made sense you'd give yourself credibility. Instead you give more to the "dumb Indian" mentality that alot of people have. Oh well, some things will never change.....

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you haven't lived til you're rowed a cataraft. Friends don't let friends run Outcasts.

SLOTH--As for the quinalts having the best fisheries in the lower 48 is because they dont net there river they net ours and waste most of what they net.Its all a joke they can use all our government HANDOUTS but they call themselves there own nation if this is true take care of yourself. Stay on the reservation and stay off our rivers and beaches just like you expect us to stay off yours.And as for giving you your land back sorry you are a CONQUERED nation.Screw the treaties you dont live by them why should we.

[This message has been edited by b-bouncer (edited 06-10-2000).]

Okay ... enough of this. Sloth, you've been warned before of your foul language.

Like it or not, as tribal harvest influences OUR resources to a large degree, you're going to see questions and comments raised. Live with it Sloth.

Letty sets a good example ... she disagrees a lot with what many of us have to say, but she does so in a civil, adult manner.

Sloth will no longer have the opportunity to respond in any manner ... 'nuf said!

Thanks Bob

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Bob Dawson

...Finally peace

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Row Quietly and fish a Catraft }<<(('>----<'))>>{
Release all Wild Fish

[This message has been edited by Osprey (edited 06-10-2000).]

Bob, you should cut off this type of talk sooner. Some of these people take things to far. Fish on!

I have one question for sloth. Where did the money come from to build that fantastic hatchery and also who pays the people to work at the hatchery? Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the tax payers paid for your private little fishery.. Sloth, how much did you pay to Uncle Sam last year?? Oh, thats right, sloth can't reply because he's been grounded!!!! Ha!!!

Bob, If everyone who didn't respond to this string in a "civil, adult manner" was booted off the board, sloth would have company.

I also think that sloths language was inappropriate, but in this case excusable because of what it was a response to. I find foul language to be a more forgivable flaw than blatant racism.

Stikfoot----Its not against the law to be racist!!!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by Timber man (edited 06-11-2000).]

jmolanoj ... sorry, that things went on, as this is the time of year where I'm typically working near 20 hour days, I don't peek in as often as I do the rest of the time.

And to Stinkfoot, it's all in the delivery. You're right, some of the posts were not the "nicest", however, 'shouting' the f-word is clearly a violation of board policies, and this is far from the first time the user in question responded as such. Previous warnings were given ... and that's that.

While may may disagree with some of the ideas presented in this thread, I'm not going to ban someone on their personal values, but if you start shouting profanity on the board, you're gone, period

Well folks, Sloth may be banned, but all he has to do is re-register under a new name. Then again, I don't think it will be too hard to figure out who he comes back as, seeing as how he still hasn't figured out the CAPS Lock button on his keyboard!!!

All Again,

havn't been on inawile,

In my first post I also negelted to say that the indians who do abuse these rights were the ones to ticked me off. I am usually a fast typer so I leave things out.

The next thing to ponder will be alittle less contraversial, Though it will have affects ( not on people), see you all then.

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To Hell with the Antis!

C.D

As much as I find sloths reply and general comments offensive, I also feel that snowchucks initial post is one of the more immature things I have ever read on this board. Nothing will ever be resolved thru name calling etc. I read this board for information and have a great deal of respect for most of the posters even if I do not agree with them on all issues. I also am in shock at times over the state of the Indian issue, but I don't feel that racial comments are in order at any time. I hope that you all understand that kids do read this board..

Last thought for snowchuck... what do you concider a "anti ???" If I read this board correctly and I think I do, thats an insult to approx 90% of the people who post here... you know, the people who think forward and care about the future of our sport and resources

an anti is a Anti-Hunter or Anti-fisherman, These are the poeple who hate hunters and fishermen and are trying to stop both sports.

oh , and what about that spinning reel from the origional post?


Oh and I was wondering this, Wenever I go steelheading I notice that other steelheaders seem to be a bit more freindly and cool with there fellow anglers compared to some of the other types of fishermen, not saying there is anything wrong with the others but I have noticed that if you ask a Steelheader what they are using after a caught fish they either say what they use or give you an exact way to rig,tie, and present you lure. To me this is why I like Steelheading so much , it is great and the people around you are courtious. I remember once pointing out a around 10-15 # buck foating around near shore and the guy said, why should I catch it? you saw it first , catch that sob! , with a grin.

to me this is cool.


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To Hell with the Antis!

C.D

Snowchuck.. sounds like your growing up fast in a critical time in the northwest. Keep your attitude with a minor modification..

P.S, please vote. We need all the young guys we can get.. Good fishing.