Method of fishing should be the last thing to be regulated/argued. I enjoy and partake in flyfishing, drift fishing, float fishing, plunking, and of course throwing metal. There is a time and a place for every method, to limit yourself and call yourself _____ fisherman is comical, it means you've got about 20% of the game figured out.

By selective gear rules and not fishing from a floating device you can still deploy just about any method you chose.

Keep it closed forever or until the run comes back. If you want to c&R go to the trout pond it's what it's there for you dumb turd.

Turd would be the guy who doesn't get it. .the Skagit run has exceeded escapement time and time again. But turds don't fish ...they just float:)

The run is back, its back to a place that has been acceptable and for the most part sustainable. I think what we are trying to solve is managing to fishable numbers not managing fish we will never fish for.

How about this one?

Puget Sound basin river system as stated in original post with 250 allowable recreational impacts on wild steelhead.

If said system has brats then it is open November thru February 15th selective gear rules no bait.

If said system does not have brats it is closed November thru end of February to appease the FREAKS and save the early run wild steelhead from eternal damnation?

Wild steelhead c&r season runs from March 1 thru April 30 selective gear, no bait, Sparky’s rule and all that other sh!t.

You are allowed 2 days fishing…..any 2 days within the open period….you pick.

Day 1) as soon as anything you brought with you gets wet from river water; i.e. presentation, rod tip (aka $300 water clarity indicator/depth sounder), boots, trailer tires etc. you have to mark your fishing license with that days date. Then go fishin’ and grinnin’.

Day 2) same rules as day one, you mark your license with that days date, go fish your brains out and when that day is over you’re done fishing steelhead for that river for the rest of the season.

Riley check my math below before Smalma does….

250 allowable impacts at 10% hooking mortality gives us 2,500 fish to get a glory shot of while keeping one fin in the water.

Angler success rate, which is the number of fish the average angler will c&r per day. I’m guessing 0.75/angler would be real high (these are wild steelhead remember)….so 2500 fish/0.75 would equal 3,333 angler days allowable. So at a two fishing day limit this allows 1,666 angler seasons.

Do you think that many would participate???

You know the bonkers (Wild Cat Steelhead club, etc.) won’t fish cuz they can’t hurt anything.

The FREAKS won’t fish cuz they might hurt something.

Francis would probably be the only one coming over from the coast.

I could be wrong but I don’t see it being that crowded.

You can always tweak hooking mortality and angler success rate but you get my drift pardon the pun.

Beezer,

You've chosen a variation of "limit the number of angler participants." This could work as long as the total number of anglers who decide to fish doesn't exceed your estimate. That would sure tend to discourage out of area, out of state anglers who generally only travel to the area to fish if they can stay and fish for a week.

Sg

I think a program like the masters hunter in this state would be pretty cool. Pretty much the whole program copied over to a fishing situation. Have the volunteer work range from various hatchery work to restoring stream habitat. It would generate money from class fees to support itself. I don't know if it would knock down the actual number of fish caught. But I would much rather see something like this then just a large fee or No motor/boat fishing, anchors, lures, bait, barbs, waders, fishing pole, reel, must wear a blind fold while fishing, and so on.

I would accept option 4 if it got me on the river. However, my preferred option would be a modification to #3 (see below).

I would propose a C&R selective gear fishery (no bait, no barbs, no scent) and no angling from boats under power. These regulations would substantially minimize the number of encounters with wild steelhead compared to a normal harvest fishery, which is the intent of the fishery in the first place but still allow considerable opportunity for those willing to pay/play. This option was selected as a "middle of the road" scenario based on the fishers likely to participate and conveniently corresponds with my fishing preferences.

Next I would run some figures, estimating how many encounters with wild steelhead this fishery would generate and apply some sort of mortality rate. Say you open a 45 day season (March 1 to April 15 for example) and you have 50 anglers per day participating, generating 2250 angler days. Then you apply an angler success rate of 1 fish per day, thereby exploiting 2250 fish and less than 50% of the return. Next apply a C&R mortality rate of 5% and you will kill 112 fish with the fishery. Even if you double the success rate or double the angler days, your still at 225 dead fish and under the allowable threshold.

I would charge $100 for a 45-day seasonal pass, not unlike an expensive Columbia River endorsement. If you sell 500 (I have no idea if that is realistic or not but that would correspond to about 4.5 days per pass sold, using the 2250 angler days figure) you would generate a little revenue to help with creel checkers and enforcement issues, thereby satisfying NMFS compliance with the take permit. Regarding guides, I'd want to put some sort of limit on the number of guides and the number of rod days but that would be open for discussion.

Finally, (this is probably not feasible), I'd pass some laws, substantially increasing the poaching penalties and fines, say with a $10,000 fine for possessing any wild steelhead and forfeiting all equipment/vehicles, etc.

I'd jump at the opportunity if this were applied to the Skagit/Sauk.

As much as a like the enhancement fee idea (ala the Columbia), I'm also a bit sensitive to the fact that some folks just couldn't afford a $100 fee to fish local waters. I'm all about allowing either a lottery for access or giving locals first dibs on the water. Obviously you still have the Seattle/Bellevue urban centers as a main sticking point for this, but details could be worked out on that IMO. It would suck for me, but it would still spread out fishing efforts a bit.

Additionally I believe this is how all guiding licenses should work also. The details would need to be fleshed out, but the general idea is that we tier the access for rod guide days. Locals (perhaps by fishing region), state residents, then out of state. If the licenses are gone for any one of the tiers, then no other permits would be issued.

True. As someone else said too many people, too many hazards and too much greed. It's not going to get better. Global warming is the newest and most ever present danger. It's not looking good boys. It may be that after the nates all disappear then then the rivers will be filled with zombie hatchery fish and that will be that. It's a shame and it's pushed this old timer to giving up on (South) Puget Sound Rivers. I will still fish the coast and a few others until they become too crowded and then I'm done. I miss the old days but I'm glad I got to fish then. The memories are good but at the same time sad.

No problems. Swing Fly only! No spoons!

Much like lesser stags who see full racks on superior specimens, so shall the gear fisherman scatter when they see full grown ascots....

Nice turnout of Skagiteers at todays Commission meeting in Tumwater. Compelling points made, and sounds like WDFW is receptive to the message.

Action will likely be SLOWER than desirable.

Good article re C&R of endangered species...

http://www.rsmas.miami.edu/assets/Cooke_et_al._Fish_and_Fisheries.pdf

Meant to post this last week but the site was down.

The following is from "Gordie Frear's" Northwest Fishing Guide and Hunting Guide" no copy right but must have been mid-60's

Just the show what catch totals were like in the "old days"

1964-65 Winter Steelhead season..

1. Skagit River...........20,030....... 11. Toutle(all Forks 5,088 ....... 21. Grays.............2,449
2. Green River-----------11,666....... 12. Chehalis ............ 4,891 ...... 22. Bogachiel........2,396
3. Cowlitz Rv............ 10,317....... 13. Kalama.............. 4,721 ........ 23. Willapa.......... 2,367
4. Puyallup.............. 8,566....... 14. Snoqualmie......... 4,341 ........ 24. Nooksack........ 2,356
5. Skykomish............ 8,035....... 15. Lewis ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 4,298 ........ 25. Dungeness....... 2,309
6. Humptulips.......... 7,084....... 16. Washougal ......... 4,219
7. Snohomish........... 6,810....... 17. Hoh ................. 4,101
8. N.Fork Stillaguamish 5,720....... 18. Naselle ............ 2,817
9. Main Stillaguamish 5,491....... 19. Nisqually .......... 2,730
10. Lower Columbia....... 5,451...... 20. Samish.............. 2,723

About 50 years ago.....fewer fishermen, fishing gear not close to current items.....

I never started fishing steelhead until 1968. There was LOTS of fish everywhere in western WA.....just see how bad it is, in only 50 years.

Would have loved to have "bobber/jig", in my early years.

Not a answer for the Skagit....but just how far down this once great river has decreased.

"Go Hawks"...........

Look at 7000 on the HUMP!

I believe the Director said two years for the EIS itself.

Nice to have those kind of numbers to spread out pressure and provide good fishing for the whole system, not just a few batches of hatchery turds that blast back to reiter/tokul in 5 days. Surprised the Crummy didn't crack the top 10.

Would love to turn the clock back to those days. Give me a handful of corkies and a few hammered brass....

Those pre mid-1970s sport catch estimates have been pretty well accepted as being somewhat inflated. They were based on punch card returns (successful anglers much more likely to return their cards). Numerous studies have fund that actual harvest general are only 50 to 60% of those based on punch card returns.

Regardless there were lots more fish harvest 50 years ago than today. There were not efforts to separate hatchery and wild fish (a fish was a fish).

Curt

One thing that can be done with much of the old punchcard data is to divide the catch estimate by the expansion factor. The factor was often listed on the catch data page. That way, you have the number of fish that were actually reported. So, for example, you really don't know if 20,000 were harvested in the Skagit, you do know that a minimum of (say) 9,876 were caught and you can also know the number taken each month if monthly catch were reported.