I am not sure when I joined this board, but it was a hell of a long time ago! When I joined, Bob posted often and actually gave some tips away in his posts. If you don't beleive me, then click on search and see for yourselves. I can count on 1 hand how many times Bob has posted in the last 6 months, maybe longer! Bob went through alot and alot of work getting this site up to par for us fishing junkies, and now this is how we treat it? There are too many members who think they are high [Bleeeeep!] on the todem pole, if I had it my way I would cut there todem pole down a few feet! I know of alot of members that don't even visit this site anymore, and if they do it's for a good laugh. You don't see names like Bob D, Dan S, and many other big names in the fishing industry posting all that much anymore. You guys are missing the ride, Bob D and Dan S, but know there stuff. These are guys that fish 300 or so days out of the year and do articles for magazines for people like Nick Amato and others. Too many people are coming onto this site looking for a free ride, well in life there isn't a free ride, there will always be a price for everything. Instead of logging on here and trying to get advice on hot spots or hot lures, go out and buy some gear and bait and go find some water and fish it. This is the best way to learn. The internet is a great resource, but nothing beats experience! Nothing! We used to have topics that actually had to do with fishing techniques and or different types of fishing, now it is just a bunch of crap! I am talking about 90% of the posts on here are crap, I appologize to the people that post the other 10% of the posts that are good. I am not trying to move my position up in the fishing industry nor am I trying to make friends, but I don't feel that I have contributed to any crap posts! Am I wrong? I for one am game for trying to eliminate all of this problem, not a good majority, or half, but all of it. I am not going to prance around this! Any suggestions from you older posters? I see most of the posts are from people with under 25 posts, where are the old timers with 100's of posts who started this board and made it what it used to be? This is a bitch post, 110%. I am tired of this crap, and alot of you will say if you don't like it don't read it, but its getting to be all that I have to read anymore, and damnit I was here first, so I am taking a stand and saying [Bleeeeep!]! Anyone else game for trying to get a better board and or helping Bob get back what he deserves? Or am I alone as I am on alot of my subjects like the Wynoochee subject?

Andy Matthews
answer@techline.com http://The_Steelhead_Solution.homestead.com
360-533-1449

Andy,

Don't get too wound up about what's bothering you about this board. Sure, there are those who expect too much when asking a question and there are those who think this BB is for airing their grievances with the tribes or other anglers. In a sense, it is. Bob doesn't spend much time on the BB this time of year, it's always been that way when he's off to AK, the guys putting in hellish hours guiding up there and probably doesn't get a lot of spare time. But make no mistake, he's still reading the Board, he just doesn't have as much time to "babysit" it when he's up north.

But, Andy, let me remind you that, as a businessman in this industry, posts like this won't help your enterprise. Better to just shake your head and wonder silently what some guys are thinking, than to post your grievances here and risk offending possible customers. That's just MY opinion on the matter, you can take it any way you like, but remember that even idiots buy fishing gear.


Fish on..........

[This message has been edited by Dan S. (edited 06-28-2000).]

hey andy.
i do understand what you are trying to say. as i responded to fishslayer the other day. there are places to be a knucklehead, but not here and not now.
i got on this board only a short time ago and i have seen many changes. the reel truth does not come on only to make corrections of some one lame idea, which is good, but hey, before he renamed himself, he was on all the time. i appreciated his comments and knowlegde he put out.
there are good people still here, dan s. still post, mostly i see him answering someone s questions or giving useful hints. snagly is always on line, even from far away. osprey, bruce, as i see it have all been here a whole lot longer and they post up or report back on others post.
yeh, ther are alot of new younger people, most of them a little like you except some of them need to grow up and be more mature in their words and actions.
but do not condemn us all, even i have posted a couple of lame questions. if you look back when i first posted a thread, it was about the indians netting the mouth of clarks creek, bank to bank. i was not very mature with my response and or how i worded by critiziam of these practices.
i have learned from reading even the good, bad and ugly post.
yeh, i to have told people if you do not like what is said, do not rear it. guess what, i still rear ever line, even if i do not like it. i may or may not respond, it just depends on how much bull needs to be cleaned out.
i do not know about anyone else but myself, but andy, i think you are our future, being am over 50 now and don't plan on going into politic's as a profession to take the stress out of my work life.
i ask all that post here to relize that there are places to go on the internet and you can do what you want. we want to talk and learn about fishing and the practices that hpoefully will make it avaialble to my grand-son and your childred, when you have them.

thanks

elmtree (woody)

Dan,
I learned something, and I learned it the hard way. Yeah I own my own tackle business and I know the only way I stay in business is to sell products, and who buys products? The people I just got done reaming right? Your 110%! But somethings are worth it! The Wynoochee issue was a big issue down here, and you best beleive me when I tell you that I lost alot of customers and or future customers do to my opinion or my beleif. But do you think I did the right thing? I know you do, cause I know how you feel on that subject! I guess I got all wound up, but I feel bad for Bob, he put alot of time into this board, and now he can't even enjoy it himself, nor can many others. Dan by the way, how did Nick like them there jigs and rags? Just curious. I know all that rain brought the Clack up a little bit, just curious if anything was said on them, let me know...

Thanks,
Andy Matthews

Hey Andy, I really like your ideas, especially on the Wynoochee issue and I can tell you are a team player. I know I have heard your name in other circles before here I just can't remeber where. Anyway, what kind of tackle do you sell? I know some guides in eastern Wa that you might not know. I think it is time for a free Plug!

Andy,

Whether or not I think you did the right thing r.e. the Nooch ( you know I do) is irrelevent, it's what YOU think that matters. Believe me, I've kissed arses I'd rather have kicked many times as a salesman, and I've thought about whether it was worth it many times. Most times it IS worth it, it's just up to YOU to decide what's worth it and what's not. In my opinion, reaming guys who obviously are rowing with one oar out of the water is like peeing up a rope. Nott too productive, so why bother. But trying to get sleds off the upper and middle Nooch IS worth fighting for, but then again, that's MY judgement and others surely won't see it that way.

I do think that Bob will feel badly that you called the BB a joke, though. Some recent posts have been a joke, to be sure, but this BB still better than any other BB I've seen. Hopefully he will understand your concern, and not take offense.

Sorry, but I haven't talked to Nick in a while, I think he headed north to Alaska for a couple weeks, but I'll bug him for feedback for you when he gets back.

Fish on........

Jake,
I sell rags and jigs. Email me and we can talk...

Thanks,
Andy Matthews

Well Andy, to start you registered as a member of this site March of 1999. I am very sorry you find this site to be so bad. Your main concern seems to be that this board has turned into a "bitch post 110%". I agree. Now (after your post) it is probably up to 120%. First of all I do not make a living from the fishing industry. I work usually a 60 hr. work week installing and maintaining the equipment in US West buildings that make communications (like this site) possible. On my one day off a week I like to get away from all the chaos and find a place on the river to throw a line out, usually the Clackamas. I have just discovered this board and have found it to be a great compliment to the internet. There are alot of posts/replies that I could live without. However, it is the nature of the beast as far as these boards go. I just took a buddy out with me on my recently acquired drift boat and he caught the first salmon out of the boat thus far. He gave me the fish to smoke and I submitted a post on this board to find a good brine to use. I got like 10 replies in two days! I really appreciated all the people who took a couple minutes of their time to make my first attempt at this so successful. My friends and co-workers couldn't believe that the salmon I dispersed was my first try! So thank you everybody for your recipes. I have spent alot of time and money getting set up to fish just one day a week. Therefore I don't feel I am looking for a free ride, but just trying to learn about something I have really taken a liking to doing. I feel targeted by your comments, because I don't have hundreds of posts. In fact I do have under 25. So, in your view should I not use this board? If Bob does not want new users, then why is this board open to the public to register on? I think you should try starting your own board like you mentioned. However, I will not be visiting it or your store. When you are young, you think you can change the world. But, when you grow up and have a family, hopefully, you will learn to choose your battles and your enemies more effeciently.

First I must apologize for posting since I'm still a lowly smolt!! Reel Time you just saved me a Whole bunch of typing, well said. thanks. Andy, good-luck with your new site?!

Andy, as a former 17 year old I'm going to offer my three cents on this issue:

1. We admire your passion and honesty. Don't lose that fire. Keep the language and the tone clean -- no need to stoop to others' levels. And you can change the world, too, but usually it's a little bit at a time, and a long time in coming . . . but it still makes a difference. Don't give up on the Nooch and sleds. Perservere.

2. This Board IS worth caring about, but you have to realize that it's become enormously popular in the last year (11,700 posts for goodness sake!) and unfortunately the number of new Robbo's, Hawks, Martys and other ace contributors hasn't kept pace. So there's a lot more 'noise'.

Like most of the other guys, I simply skip or quickly abandon threads that are bitch sessions. If you ignore the hate-mongers, they eventually self-select off the Board (perhaps finding more people to spar with on other boards). I'm going to be around on the Board as long as Bob continues to run it. We'll outlast -- and possibly change the minds of -- a few of the new guys who resort to name calling or have their facts backwards. So hang in there. There's no need to start you own Board. Stay and make this one better.

3. There's still plenty of good info being exchanged of real value (at least to the person asking the questions). Where else can a post on gluing felt soles on waders get three or four expert replies in a few days? I mean 'felt soles' isn't exactly a topic of high interest to 98% of fishermen, yet the level of professional courtesy is high enough that old timers and new posters alike gave me their thoughts. That's what I value about this Board. (Try making a similar post on 90% of the other Boards and it will dangle in the breeze forever.)

4. You will indeed lose customers for your stands on things like condemning yahoos on this Board and sleds on the Nooch. You're also gaining business, too: my business. Those jigs and rags you sent me two weeks ago are first rate, and I'll be ordering morre -- and passing your website and contact details on to several other serious gear losers (the best kind of customers to have).

The Romans had an expression that sums up what you're going through "Don't let the bastards get you down."

Tight lines.

Andy
I just got home and I deal with almost 20,000-25,000 customers a week good attitudes and bad. When one of my employees pisses somebody off its my job to step in and handle the situation.....Thats my job.
With that said....YOUR POST IS OUT OF LINE!!


Starting with the title of Your post. This board is not a joke. It is your perception from what you have gotten from this site.
Snagly made excellent points about the contents of the site. It is truly one of the great resource gatherings on the internet. It is not for the elite or the beginner...It is for all who wish to talk fishing and ask a question.
I read almost every post even the bad ones. Sure I get mad when I read some but I am not happy when you call me and my fellow board members a joke.
you say 90% of the posts on here are crap.....Well B.S. to you. People took the time to write and ask a question. Their question is just as important to them as your jet sled issue on the wynoochee is to you.

So ya I am pissed...but its about your attitude in this post. You need to apologize for being out of line to people of this board. They are good people with serious concerns and questions.......PERIOD. Be a positive force and post fishing questions....that is what you want isn't it.

------------------
Marty
Steelheader.net marty@steelheader.net

What's everyone so wound up about? This thread looks like the Steelhead Site in Wisconsin while everyone is waiting for the first push of fish to come in the rivers. Bi**h Fest. If you want to fight, get married.

If I had any summer fish like you guys, I sure as heck wouldn't be sitting on a computer whining. But since I don't have any fish around, I guess I can squeal with the best of them.

Guys, get off your as* and go fish. I need to at least hear about some fish to make me stop shaking. If I don't hear any steelhead trash talk, I'll have to enter a 12 step program for depression. Tight Lines, and go fish. If you won't fish, I may have to quit my job, leave my family, pack up all my metal head gear, move to your state, and live on the banks of your favorite river. Please don't make me do this. Have a great one.

Heading to Northern Arkansas for a week to go chase bruiser browns in the White River. I'll post an update when I get back. Be nice.

This BB was and still is a source of good info and tips,It's a few that have created all this BS ,we all have opions...thats great but this has gone over the edge at times but some of us need to mellow out and stop taking s*it so personal. I've met some great guys here and am looking forward to creating more memories with new friends I have yet to make.Some people have way too much time on their hands .Maybe some of you should try ....FISHING

------------------
Row Quietly and fish a Cataraft }<<(('>----<'))>>{
Release all Wild Fish

Andy,

I am sorry to see you feel this way. I may not have been around since the very old days, but odd and sometimes offensive posts are always going to be present. Personally i have put my foot in my mouth more than a few time, but oh well. I learned seomthing in most cases. This BB is like a meeting hall. Good avice, some great folks (I have made some good friends here), a good portion of BS and some bad apples. Bob has done a good job at moderating this board, without going as far as censoring it. He's a busy guy and doing the best he can. For poviding this forum, I can do nothing but thank him. Check out some of the other forums. Few are useful or intersting.

Don't throw out the babe with the bathwater

Andy,

I first started lurking on this board back in the summer of '98. I had moved to Seattle from Chicago the summer before and was just getting back into fishing in general and was curious about steelhead and salmon. I started posting random questions here and there and some got replys and some didn't. But I made some friends and got some good advice and finally got my first steelhead in March of '99. Now I'm completely addicted and have spent untold hours and $$$ chasing these fish and have had some success with the help of people on this board and regularly fish with Bob D., a local who has helped me get years ahead of a lot of beginners.

Don't get discouraged as things turn a little whiny here over the summer. Nobody wants to talk a lot about good summer fishing because it's so tough to track them down. This board is still one of the better places to find real info and get advice from others. With folks like RT and others joining in all the time you we can all still learn a lot from each other.

Bruce

Andy,

I used to visit a lot of fishing bulletin boards and am now just down to this one. I think it's still the best one around. Even the people who post "bitches" (like yours) usually title them accurately so that you can tell what they are and ignore them if you wish.

What bugs me most about posts is swearing and someone who rants without going back and checking their spelling (totem, not todem) and grammar. Also it bugs me when someone rants so much that I really can't even focus down to find the one single thing they are ticked off about (what is the EXACT target of your ire?).

I think 90% of the posts here are valid and not a waste of space.

That said....I've heard enough good about your jigs that I might to get some for the shows we tape this coming year for chum and steelies. Do you have a website that shows them or a catalog w/ pics of them?

Thanks,

Kevin Erickson
Fisherman's Heaven TV http://www.fishermansheaven.com

Andy,

I respectfully disagree with you. This board is exactly what you, I, and every other contributor make it. Since you were here before user registration began in March 99, you surely remember how pathetic many of the rants and flamers were that caused Bob to limit participation to only those who would register. The quality of the BB content has been consistently higher since then. That doesn't make it perfect; nor does it make it a joke.

The value of an internet website is its content. A BB adds content to a website. The higher the quality of the BB content, the greater the overall value of the website. Bob can only do so much in making this BB available and moderating it, without censoring, its use. I certainly haven't seen all the fishing sites that are available, but of those that I have, this and one other are the only two I regularly visit. And the reason is because the sites' content has value.

As for the whiny and bitching posts and threads, these are such human characteristics you will find them on BB on virtually every kind of website on the net. They aren't restricted just to fishing. Wherever you go in life you'll find you're always going to have to sift the wheat from the chafe. It's kind of like you said, there's no free lunch. Use what you like; disregard the rest.

Thanks for being a regular participant. You're part of the quality of this board's content. And good luck in your tackle business!

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

OK well now that I have gotten some people to speak their minds, I feel alot better. I am an avid contributer to this BB and so are alot of others, and when crap like what JOEFISHERMAN posted to night, this is what pisses me off! I am sorry that you people that disagree with me, feel that this kind of crap is ok, then go ahead and think that, but you won't get my support. As far as me starting a BB, heck no! I wouldn't want that kind of crap on mine. I just wish things were the way they used to be, but don't we all. As for all of you smolts, I am not talking down to you, because I am an adult, but because alot of people sign on as smolts and post 1-2 posts that are completely BS. That is where that came from. Kevin, email me at answer@techline.com and we can talk business. Sorry that my spelling isn't quite up to par, someone who would like can repost my post with the correct grammer and puncuation if they would like.

Andy

ah heck;
if it weren't for the miss spelled words us old farts wouldn't have anything to complain about. yeah right, as if we all just can not seem to spell every word or river.
i for one know i spell all day at work writing work order's for car repair, and of course we are on computers so every single misspelled words shows up. yeah we have spell check, it tells you it is spelled wrong, but does not give us a possible correct spelling. well sh**t, i knew i spelled it wrong the first time, i don't need a computer to tell me that.

just funin, guy's, no one get to serious about this.

hey andy, did you get my e-mail. is my stuff on it's way?

later

elmtree (woody)

Nobody said they liked the post by Joefisherman. But why make such a big issue out of it? Buddy as you get older you'll learn patients as all of us older fellows have. I commend you on your involement in the steelhead and salmon issues. You are way ahead of most of the younger fisherman. Sometimes, if you consider the source ,you can turn your cheek. Best wishes ,Jim Marquis