With the longshoreman and the companies going round and round I see a lot of ships anchored all over, even some off the inside of Whidbey. Do you think that all those anchors could be detrimental to the bottom structure and the critters that live there? And wouldn't the ones anchored in Elliott Bay stir up some of that crap?

Glad all my Rvrfshr lure components are all made in the USA...would suck to have them all stuck on a container somewhere!

Fish on...

Todd

Hard for me to feel too bad for the workers, especially after a multi-month intentional work slow down.

"Unionized dockworkers are among the nation's best-paid blue-collar workers. The union has successively negotiated pay increases for its members over the years that compensate for vastly increased productivity, made possible through containerization of freight, that has dramatically reduced the number of workers needed to load and unload ships. As a result, the association said the average longshoreman union member earns $147,000 a year."

One month back orders on many of our products,
Some of the companies we represent are starting to fly products in.
SF

It's all BS. Get back to work.......$147,000.00 a year is great pay.Good luck,

SZ

not to mention the environmental impact to air quality. those ships sit at anchor idling those gigantic diesel engines burning the lowest quality fuel imaginable. I don't think they ever shut them down except for maintenance.

bad deal all the way around, except for the guys making $150k






willy

Rite......Lol. good luck,

SZ

Unions have been a good thing for the American middle class, . . . until they aren't.

I'm surprised the ports haven't imposed work completion requirements that if not met, result in layoffs and a notice for new-hires.

agreed.

Well, crap. Hell just froze over. Stam and I agree.

Worthless bastards. Fire them all. I know plenty of people that would gladly play with legos for half of their pay.















This is the current scene at the Long Beach port.

Just curious, is the Longshoremen's Union still a pack of Commies? They were during WWll and the Korean episode. FDR and HST both had to step on their toes to keep things for the war effort moving.

Toss the PMA CEO that makes six figures and only comes up with excuses.

Well as a longshoreman who works mostly at jobs that pay the highest skill rate for about 50 hours a week. I'd like to know where I could sign up for that $147,000 a year, because I've never made anywhere close to that number. Its easy for PMA to throw that crap out there but its simply not true. Since they brought it up PMA member companies profited $370 billion in 2014. Our labor is typically paid for with the production they get in the first 20 to 30 minutes of an eight hour shift. I make a good living and have great benefits, like many of my coworkers I'm very grateful for that. Those benefits were not given they were negotiated and fought for, much like what is going on now. We all wish this had been resolved months ago, negotiations have been going on since May. Many of our negotiators have been away from their families for most of the last 9 months. Much of the time PMA's negotiators have been stalling and have made excuses to not even be at the table. They have not taken this seriously, and they couldn't give a rats ass about our economy. After I read their contract proposal press release, I almost said "those lowdown dirty greedy longshore bastards" but I assure you there is more to it than what is in the press release. They're only going to sell the good parts. They want you to think this is about wages and greed on our part and by the looks of it they are doing a good job, but for most of us this is about making sure we have a job in the future. For me thats worth fighting for, and if you were in my position I'm confident you would feel the same way.

No, I don't know any commies. Although I think that anyone that was a problem for the government back then may have been labeled as such.

We always work the military cargo no matter what, and they're always happy with the work we do.

Unfortunately, not allowing us to work nights, weekends, and holidays is only going to make that ships on anchor problem worse.

Longie I cannot refute your data about pay and benefits. I do know who Harry Bridges was and the Longshoremen in Seattle caused so much trouble that the government had to step in.
Bravo that you take care of military cargo in an expeditious manner.

I like to get butthurt by a Longshoreman making 150K a year for working the docks and wash the balls of a fuckin' executive who makes 5 million a year for making fucktarded decisions like "New Coke".

That's what I like to do.

Hank, the way the employer represented the $147k figure in their press release, it insinuated that it was in addition too the other benefits because our pension and medical were listed as well. They do this every negotiation. They send out a press release about our average compensation and the tv and print media puts it out there, no questions asked. Whats the downside for them if they embellish the #'s. There is none. Their motive is to affect public opinion and clearly it works.

It is true our medical coverage is great and it is a so called cadillac plan. There are additional charges for out of network providers and dental is covered at 70 or 80%. AsIn 2018 you are correct, those plans will be taxed, if Obamacare is still in effect. The union and the PMA have a tentative agreement on medical, but I won't know what that entails until we have a tentative agreement on everything.

I'm not sure of the cost of the pension plan, but given the creativity with which pension plans can be raided by employers, I'm not sure it'll be there in 20 years when I'm ready to retire.

Out of time I'll try to follow up later.

JG the answer to the question you ask as the OP, no one cares about anchorage of any vessel except the Coast Guard. In Elliott Bay I believe there are many grain ships a week on the North side of the bay awaiting load out and dropping anchor. Elliott bay has a sustainable shrimp harvest so I believe moving anchors in different areas helps the biomass develop by moving ground similar to natural events.

What natural events moved the bottom in 100-200' of water?

Dude.. that's an understatement.

As a small business owner, I love to hear employees that refuse to see benefits as an actual cost or portion of their pay. Words like ungratefull, spoiled and insolent come to mind.

To top off the insult, these dock workers and their "collective," have the audacity to slow their production, shift the blame to management claiming intentional sabotage of negotiations and effectively hold the local, national and international markets hostage. They posess an overly inflated sense of importance presuming they are somehow exempt from rising costs of health care, require another holiday or another 2% at the end of the month. The act of negotiation ISNT the issue for me... It is the expectancy and willingness to indirectly destroy other businesses by intentionally restricting the flow of goods and materials required because it is their "right."

What about ALL those other families that are affected from manufacturers, shippers, reps, distributors and sales? Even consumers.




Screw the union- fire them all. Thankless-sons-a-bitttttccches. There are thousands of unemployed that would do anything for a chance for a job like this. There is nothing competitive about resorting to extortion.

If your are referring to me. I see benefits as a portion of my pay, but I think that it would be dishonest for an employer to release that amount and represent it as wages. Upon further research it doesn't matter, thats not what they did anyway. I found another press release on JOC.com where they were specific about WAGES and went into further detail. There example fit me exactly, I have never earned within $75k of what they said that person would make in WAGES. The truth wouldn't have the same impact for them and that is why they choose to lie about it.

I am hardly ungrateful for my benefits. I have a 6 year old that has autistic like symptoms and requires 4 therapy appointments a week. Those benefits allow me to get her the help she needs to hopefully help her on a path to a normal life. I can't imagine what I would do without them.

The PMA has chosen to slowdown the flow of cargo by only working 28% of the available hours to load and unload those ships. Thats holding hostage.

If stalling negotiations and rarely even being available to negotiate from August to November isn't intentional sabotage I don't know what is.

We are willing to go to work to try to clear the backlog. That option is not being made available to us. I am deeply sorry that others are caught up in this mess. This situation was avoidable. It seems clear to me that you believe that we should take whatever is on the table for the greater good. Why don't you feel that way about the employer who is making the problem worse? The main issue remaining is not about money or benefits its about jobs in the future. More specifically its about the employer making deals to implement technologies in the last 2 contracts and not living up to their end of the compromises. The arbitrator that made it happen is their golden goose and he makes any contract we sign a mirage that changes with his rulings. They want their golden goose so bad they are willing to let all that cargo sit.

I felt the need to respond in this thread, because its been difficult to watch this situation develop. To see the information that is out there and know that a lot of it is untrue. To see the opinions develop based off of that propaganda. To know that these people have no idea how much pride you take in your work, and how hard you work to be as productive as possible on the job. I say this without hesitation. I love my job, and I'm very good and productive at what I do.

I wanted to give the other side of the story. I've tried to do that, but I'm coming to the conclusion that most people are going to pick one side or the other regardless of the narrative. I don't know that I expected anything different, but its probably a waste of everyones time for me to continue posting on this subject.

Happy Fishing

To say that you recognize benifits as "a portion of your pay " but to suggest it is somehow dishonest for an employer "represent it as wages" is contradictory and further emphasizes my original point.


You claim it isn't you and appealing to a higher power is not taking responsibility for your and your "bargaining unit's" actions. So you feel sorry but are also unwilling to work toward change.


Am I missing something?

To be truthful I was using the word "pay" with regard to benefits as you had in your previous post, "total compensation" would be a better way of saying it. It wouldn't be dishonest if it said our total compensation was $# and it was actually correct, but when they give $147k as wages (which is complete BS) Then say and medical and pensions. They are talking about 3 different things all of which have an assigned value. The dishonesty comes in when they use an amount that isn't correct and is inflated.

Their claims about production loss do not even match their own statistics. In Tacoma they say vessel production is down 40-60%. When their own statistical graph shows the move counts going from 26 to 19 a 27% decline in production, more dishonesty.

Starting on 11/2/14 day shift through the night shift on 11/6/14 they unilaterally fired all longshore personnel between 2 and 4 hours into each shift. They fired units where production was normal or better than normal too. One of those nights we were 10 minutes from finishing the vessel I was working so that it could sail when they fired us. It made no sense. This really screwed up the logistics of the container yards. Depending on the equipment and layout of the yard, we found ourselves digging out a lot more cargo. As they would run out of room and cargo was coming in for new vessels it was getting stacked in front of and on top of containers for vessels that were calling first. When you have to constantly move several containers to get the ones you need it takes a toll on production. While there are still container flow problems from when the yards were full, there is now considerable space in the container yards. The congestion problem PMA claims is the reason they are only working days no longer exists, its now only a mixed cargo problem that could be fixed quickly by loading out that cargo.

Thats the background, that leads me to say as I did in my last post. We want to go to work to clear the backlog, but that requires them to hire us. It is impossible to make any headway by only working days. I'm not sure how that equates to not being willing to work to fix the problem.

Am I missing something?

JTD, I have another couple questions for you regarding your previous post. In that post I didn't read through the name calling to where you said the ILWU was resorting to extortion.

Do you consider the tactics used by The Boeing Company to fleece the state of Washington out of $9 billion in tax revenue, and get Boeing employees to agree to a concessionary contract in order to keep the jobs here in Washington extortion?

Do you have the same contempt for Boeing that you do for thew ILWU?

I'm particularly interested, because the department of revenue is going to want to make up that $9 billion. My guess, is they will be knocking on the doors of small business owners such as yourself with there hand out. IMO what Boeing did is extortion and to pass that cost along to other businesses is absurd. I don't need to study who it hurts before I decide that its wrong. Then 9 months later they announce 2,000 engineer jobs are leaving to the midwest. I guess $9 billion wasn't enough for them to keep their word. That is exactly the kind of double dealing we've been experiencing. I'm sorry if you can't understand that. The rules are different for the big guys.

I know your cherry picking points and trolling me a little bit. This is the last time I'll go down that road. If you have honest questions or want to have a civil dialogue about this I'll do my best to respond.

We've actually discussed the Boeing strike previously here and that thread is in the archives. But-

I think Boeing considered relocating in an effort to lower their labor costs and at the same time played the State of Washington perfectly. Why wouldn't they play out a strategy to win on two fronts at the same time? That is just being smart. I also see that assertion as a separate topic- what is fair for big business in Washington has nothing at all to do with a union strike or a competitive wage. I believe that is the center of the issue where we fundamentally disagree though; there is a presumption of union workers of entitlement, that they somehow deserve more than what is competitive in the market whether company is successful or not or that there is any correlation between profits and wages. Which, if there was such a correlation, it would make sense in a down economy, or less profitable year, that wages would then be reduced because THAT would be fair although inconvenient. Union workers live in some delusional reality where they believe they are special, exempt of rising costs and beyond any economic pressure at all. Unfortunately that isn't how the world works.

That said, I don't think Boeing or any big business for that matter, should have any tax credit but apparently the Governor and Legislature doesn't agree with us.

In my trade, when an employee intentionally compromises performance, restricts sales or quality they deserve to be dismissed, plain and simple, particularly in a market where there is an over abundance of available labor. Raises are earned, not asked for or delivered with ultimatums.

What I find most offensive is the union's willingness in this case to jeapordize other businesses and families with the slow down. God forbid I was on the downhill side of that; I can't imagine what it would be like, for example, to have a shipment of perishables wasted when my business or pay check depended on delivery. That is a LONG list of people affected by this situation and that is shameful IMO. If you are truly part of a "collective" then, logically, you are just as responsible for the actions of the entire unit and I think you have to shoulder the responsibility for the actions of your union. Suggesting it isn't YOUR fault is a cop out.

You are correct in that I was trolling a little. I wanted to hear your side of the story and am willing to hear more. I'd love to be convinced or sold on all of the reasons why I am wrong or don't understand the bigger picture. How the union is somehow helping anyone but themselves, actually saving Washington money, contributing more or valiantly fighting evil on some other undisclosed front. I could go on and on but it would probably just get more facetious.

For disclosures sake, one of my best friends is a union spokesman for a giant manufacturer located on the Tacoma tide-flats (whatever the position is called- I can't remember other than I have sat across the table in negotiations with them and reps many times) and we vehemently disagree and have had many heated discussions in the driftboat on these very topics. We are both passionate and hot-headed and those dialogues have made some unproductive days of fishing more interesting. You are probably a great guy, I appreciate the exchange and respect (kinda) your position. I respect you took the time to post and took the time myself because, in spite of me being a jerk, you kept your cool and that alone deserves a response. I get you want to do the best for your family, as we all try to- none of this (from me) is personal.

I know I am not alone when I say I hope you resolve this quickly.

Well done JTD and Longie. It's nice to see mature adults speak their mind without going postal on each other. All in all, i'm sure both of you just want to make a living and provide for your families like the rest of us.

JTD I really appreciate your response and welcome your change in tenor. I put a lot of effort into double checking the facts that I do not have committed to memory, so that any numerical data I was reporting was as factual as possible. Thanks for letting me know that my time and effort was not wasted. The most frustrating part of this dispute to me is seeing opinions formed based on information I know to be false. To do the same would make me a hypocrite. Everything else is my honest opinion based on my knowledge of how the operations work and what I have been told about the negotiations.

The reason I asked about Boeing is, that I agree with you. They deserved no tax break. No state should engage in that sort of agreement and place that additional burden on the rest of its tax payers. It places states in a competitive bidding situation that is bad for their constituents and only stands to escalate. My problem with the way the IAM situation went down, is not the threat to leave for lower labor costs. First, this didn't occur during a labor dispute it was mid contract. Second, having worked on the wingline there when I was younger, I don't believe they really wanted to relocate. I think they just wanted a more favorable labor deal and long term agreement. This is where the connection comes in. How did they achieve it? They created fear in the community about what might happen if they left the region. This led to pressure on politicians to make sure it didn't happen. Then the focus turned to the IAM and the pressure of letting the community down resulted in a narrow yes vote on the offer. Now fast forward to today. What is similar? PMA is using the same PR firm that Boeing used to control the message and get what they wanted. Now, with the cargo backlog, we have people and businesses affected by a crisis that they have nothing to do with. We have a community that is concerned and rightfully so about the impact to the local and national economy. IMO this is exactly what the PMA and their PR firm wanted. You see, these people that are impacted by this they are our friends, our neighbors, and our community. The same cannot be said for the members of the PMA. I believe it was the PMA's plan all along to put us in the same difficult situation with the community as they did with IAM to get us to sacrifice our future.
It already worked twice so why not?

You might be surprised to find out that I share your disdain for poor work ethic. Most of us on the waterfront are hard workers who take pride in our work, the few that don't get the label POS. I think you can figure it out, once earned its a hard label to shake.

One of my best friends growing up is self employed and we have a similar relationship to you and your friend. I've learned a lot about the struggles of small business through my conversations with him. Its one of the reasons I'm aware of the effects of a big tax break.

When it comes to my unions service to the community, and willingness to stand up for those in need here and around the world. I'd have too say its one of the things about our history I'm most proud to be associated with. Sadly, over the last several years we have to really assess the risks, of taking stands like we did against Aparthied and South Africa. The penalties of doing so are real and severe. I've already been too long winded and my kids are getting restless, but If your interested about our contributions to the community both service and monetary I'm sure you can find out more online or I can elaborate more when I have time.

I too look forward to a resolution, my gut tells me we are real close. The thing that gives me pause is the strategy I outlined above, but after examining the facts I think the labor secretary is going to lean on PMA real hard.

Base pay plus burden for a company paying benefits for an employee doesnt mean 150K a year is getting rich.... Sounds like middle claas at best pay to me...

Timber, I'm have no reason to disparage PMA for my compensation. It is fair, I only wish more working people enjoyed the compensation that I receive. The problems I have with PMA are not with my compensation, unless its there misrepresentation of it. What is considered middle class has certainly not kept up with inflation over the last 30 years.

Hank, in regard to the "work safe" issue. There are several reasons production is down, I've went into a few of them previously. I can tell you that due to the layovers impacting the hours that I'm available to work. I only worked 4 shifts (33 hours) last week and production was normal on all of them. On the day I serviced truck drivers for the gate operation, there was almost zero wait time. Production was down however, because the gate was not accepting exports. The instructions I have received from my leadership several times in the last couple months is as follows. "Do your job. Do not go rogue,do not do anything stupid, do not lose your cool, because that is what the employer wants. Leave the contract to your leadership and your negotiating committee."

The current full scale wage is $35.68 and I would be very surprised if anyone had a problem with the proposed wage increase as presented.

I've never received guarantee pay, its not really possible in most ports. It is real in very small ports that do not see much work, but even the smaller ports have been seeing more work in the last few years. These small ports maintain a very small membership 8 or 10, and many of them choose to travel to other ports for work instead of collecting the guarantee.

I have 12 years of seniority and I receive 3 weeks of vacation. We do not have sick leave, for the record(not complaining).

I've posted on the pension before. It is a great and generous benefit. The amount given is for those with 40 years of uninterrupted service. With pensions, the question always is. Will it be there when I retire?

The mechanic issue was negotiated in the 08 contract in exchange for language the PMA wanted on automation. Some PMA member companies sold their chassis to leasing agents and the leased them back to avoid the maintenance. This backfired when the leasing companies ran out of chassis, stranding cargo and leading backups that are ongoing. The reason it was a big issue again is because of the arbitrator in question.

When I saw the employers version of the arbitration issue, I thought there is no chance this would stand in the way of a deal. I wasn't aware of the issue, because it had been playing out in So Cal. The way the arbitration system is set up is as follows. There are four regional arbitrators covering WA, OR, N. Cal, and So. CAl. There is a coast arbitrator that handles appeals. The four regional arbitrators are picked, 2 by the employer and 2 by the union. They are supposed to rule based on the language in the contract. When there are true gray areas its understood that the 2 are probably going to see through the eyes of the employer, and the other 2 the union. However, its very important to the credibility of the system that all 4 are fair. This one arbitrator has not been, in fact over 50% of his rulings have been overturned by the coast arbitrator. The irony is that he was one of the unions picks.

So why is this such a big deal? It gives the employer a 3-1 advantage
in the arbitration process, and of the 3 he is the most biased in favor of the employer, and its not close. It often takes months for the coast arbitrator to overturn his decisions, at which point the damage has already been done, sometimes irreparably. His decisions have nullified gains in job jurisdiction that were given in exchange for language on technology and automation that will cost jobs in other areas. This was language PMA said they had to have. We compromised and we got burned, not by the language, but by the arbitrator. From the unions position it doesn't matter what the contract says, if we arbitrate in front of this guy we lose. Now, consider that most of the work is in his region.

We don't want the right to terminate arbitrators that rule against us. We want to repick our arbitraitor, because the one we have isn't satisfying the most fundamental requirement of the job. Which is fairness.

The employers have admitted that there is a problem with the arbitration process. They just don't want to do anything about it, because it couldn't be going better for them.

How important is it to the PMA? 46 ships and counting at anchor and 4 2/3 of the last 5 days with no ship work. All over letting us repick our choice of arbitrator. Hmm, is this guy important to them? Don't think too hard thats a tough one.

He was just trolling.........
So fuk you cocksucker....

You find a four year old clip of one knucklehead and paint it as the view of 20,000 longshoreman. Is this the kind of in depth analysis I should expect from you?

I'd love to get to work, if PMA would quit shutting down the ports.

Any union contract that jeopardizes the employers ability to be profitable, serves neither party. If the employer fails, the terms don't matter, there is no job. Even after paying us they made $370 billion, sounds like they could afford it. I have no problem with their margins, like I said my job depends on them being successful, and they are.

You should probably stop getting your propaganda from talk radio. The ILWU cut ties with Trumka and the AFL-CIO, and I doubt union lobbyists get much traction when they are being outspent by business by 6500% ($2.93b to $44m).

It's just about baseball season. So if you have anymore slow cheese to throw across the plate, I'll be happy to put it in the cheap seats for ya.

There is more I'd like to say, but I think I'll take the high road, relatively speaking. I know the truth is on my side.

As do I.

Well said longie. Nice to see the true colors of many who post here. I'd like to see the pay stubs from the ones sitting across the bargaining table.

I'd like to see exactly what they contribute in terms of value to society also. Laffin.

Reagan was the president of the screen actors guild union. For all the positive things he did he did much more to screw America including the air traffic controllers. Reagan will be remembered for running up the national debt six fold from $550 Billion to $3 Trillion in eight years. Who the best president is depends on your political bias.

Yes he was, was your point to show his balance?


I've always thought that his handling of the air traffic controllers was praiseworthy.


When Reagan took office the GDP was 2.79 trillion and the military budget had been decimated by Carter, when Reagan left office the GDP was 5.1 trillion and the military had been brought back to such a point that the Berlin wall was about to fall.

When Reagan left office the national debt was 54.4% of the GDP, it is now well over 100%.

At least Reagan didn't support America:

Velociraptor's came out of modern day locations Russia, Mongolia, China.
He's firing a German MP-7.
He's sporting a Russian RPG
He's riding on a Mexican made saddle and bridle.
The US Flag and saddle blanket was made in India.
The hat is obviously a foreign Stetson knock-off.
All his textiles came from China.
He's not even wearing good old American cowboy boots.

PMA FINAL proposal was on the table this morning at 06:00.

I never heard a word about it at all so business as usual today.

He knew the tools, how to use them, and when to use them.

We're all a bunch of greedy bastards when it comes down to it. The pursuit of happiness requires capital, and since we all want to be happy, we all want more capital. Right or wrong, it is what it is.

It always makes me chuckle when I read claims by small business owners arguing that union workers are self-entitled extortionists who should shut up and get back to work. First of all, union labor is virtually non-existent in small business, so you have no skin in the game. You're free to go on paying your employees whatever you think they're worth, comforted in the notion that if they're unhappy, they can vote with their feet, and you can easily replace them with another person who'll be grateful for the work. No need for you to concern yourselves with big business problems. In fact, I should think most of you small business folks would be far less enamored with the guys across the big business bargaining tables, who are the true extortionists. The Boeing deal was a perfect example of corporate extortion. When they get a $9B tax break, who do you suppose makes up the revenue shortfall that results come next legislative session? In case you didn't know, I'll inform you that it's the middle class, of which the vast majority of small business owners and union laborers alike are members.

Another one that gets me every time is the notion that people who aren't happy with what they earn as employees should just start their own business and control their own destiny. An economy in which everybody owns a business might be an amusing social experiment, but when everyone figured out they had no help to fill the orders they weren't getting, they might start to question the feasibility aspect.

Like most posting here, I do have a negative reaction when I see figures that suggest someone doing a job that didn't require higher education is earning $150K. Once reminded that is a fully loaded rate (which in almost any middle class job is about double the actual rate of pay), I don't find that figure so outrageous. When I'm reminded that middle class wages have been relatively stagnant for over 30 years, I can't fault the union workers for using the only means available to them to offset some of the enormous amount of inflation that has occurred over that same period of time.

I don't always support union action, and I also don't think all unions are appropriate. Let's take Stam's favorite, the state employee unions (one of which I happen to pay into, despite my non-member status), as an example. The main reason I oppose such unions is that when the chips are down, they have no bargaining power against legislatures that are constantly working to offset revenue shortfalls that result when they give corporations tax breaks to keep them in the fold. Indeed, when the money's not flowing, collective bargaining becomes a North of Falconesque dog and pony show, with the end result being net losses in state employee compensation. For my 8 years of making mandatory contributions to union funds, I have ZERO pay/benefit increases to show for it, and I have actually lost ground due to across-the-board pay cuts and furloughs. I'm anxiously awaiting the announcement of how much I will lose when the current legislature introduces a budget that somehow overcomes a $2B revenue shortfall. It probably sounds like I'm complaining, but I'm okay with things. I like where I work, the work I do, and the policy that enables me to work on a schedule that allows me to post stuff like this on a Thursday. Those things are worth a lot to me (especially blogging on Thursday). That said, I do sense that my patience is starting to wear thin, and in the likely event that nothing changes soon, I will do what all you Reagan worshippers out there would have me do and find a new job. Who knows? Maybe I'll start my own small business and learn all about the joys of watching most of my profit going to pay taxes that big businesses refuse to pay....

STATE OF WASHINGTON ‑- PUBLIC EMPLOYEES LABOR UNIONS ‑- PAYROLL DEDUCTIONS FOR UNION DUES

It is lawful for any department of the government of the State of Washington in its discretion to deduct union dues from the wages or salary of any employee who presents it with a proper written assignment thereof.

It is lawful for the auditor of the State of Washington in his discretion, upon being presented with a written assignment of a state employee's wages for union dues and properly itemized vouchers, to deduct union dues from the employee's warrant and pay the same to the assignee labor union.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

May 23, 1956

Perhaps if you live in a city or a state without an arbitrary minimum wage.

Did you notice how quickly the Democratic Governor and Legislature opened our purse? They did not want those high paying union jobs leaving the State, as they rely heavily on union contributions to finance their elections.

Nepotism alive and well at the port.

Hey now...... You and Evo scored on that deal.... Eh....

Anchoring a ship when they make T-1's is just stupid.

Nice post, FF02.

Rev, I doubt the union was jumping up and down with support for the Governor that kind of hung them out to dry. On the flip side, what happens if he does nothing and Boeing leaves. Then everyone bitches that Boeing left, because the Governor refused to work with them to make Washington a more hospitable place to do business. I find it very interesting that you seem to find blame with the sides being extorted. It seems that maybe you choose sides first and the argument second. Be sure to let us know the next time labor money swings an election, 1/66th is such a small portion that its impact is minimal. Its enough to get politicians to pretend to listen and care.

FleaFlickr, I enjoyed your post. I think you bring up some very valid points when it comes to the lack of benefits of your representation as it pertains to compensation. The only question I have is would you be an easier target for cuts without representation.

$2 billion dollars per day lost. Right, wrong or indifferent, this is costing a lot of other non-related hardworking folks, like farmers, chit tons of money. Yeah - lets' screw over everyone else so we can get ours. That's the way - that's the spirit! That extra $1.50 and 2 days of vacation is soooo worth it to put others out of business. Everyone involved proud of themselves yet? High five....

Too fuckin' bad.

Save the next 2 billion and do the deal with the dock workers today.

Maybe those small business owners and farmers should be putting the screws to the fuckheads who operate the ports and ask them if losing 2 bil a day is worth it to keep their pimp hand strong.

As long as corporate execs make 7 figures for doing sh!tty work, I'm not going to snivel about dock workers just breaking into 6 figures, with bennies included.

Not a lazy fu.ck.
Not a union employee.
Not buying into the [Bleeeeep!] story that this whole confucktion is the longshoreman's fault, and THEY should look at what's happening to farmers and other businesses whose sh!t is trapped in the ports.

Read my comments again Dan. I said right, wrong or indifferent and also everyone involved. As in I'm not taking sides. My comments are aimed at both sides in parallel. Get it resolved. It's stupid.

I stand corrected, then.

I agree - do the deal. Unload the f'n ships. Get something done on the dock AND in your office with the big desk and leather chair.

I hope your big customers are tearing you a new ass for letting this turn into the sh!tbomb it has.

you had me until "farmers"... the same uneducated fu.cks but instead inherited lots of land that they pay little to no taxes on and are subsidized if and when they cant get crop to market...

at least the long longshoreman union guys are paying taxes on 100% of their income and paying sales tax on all the [Bleeeeep!] they buy... and the ones I've known buy a lot of [Bleeeeep!]!

...and this from someone that is a union hater

I do not blame the individual longshoreman for taking advantage of the system.
Work 4 and paid for 8.
Have Tacoma as your home port, live in Olympia, and get paid travel pay to work the Olympia Port.
What a system it is.

That is simply not true. Here are some facts And now this. Well now that's about to damn funny, 'The pot calling the kettle black.' Now that is another interesting thought, especially considering the source.

I willingly admit that in my time on this earth that I have formed opinions, and I like to think that my opinions are well founded.
Like all of the children in Lake Wobegon my opinions are above average and therefore they must surely deserve your thoughtfull consideration.

At t-6 they have been on a slow down since 2010, it all started with a pissing match between the longshoreman and the IBEW over who would unplug and plug in the containers.

Those fuks would cut off there own noses to spite there faces.

to muddy the discussion even more, I read that the shipping companies are building bigger ships. According the article, in the near future the majority of container ships will be too large to utilize many of the Pacific Coast ports. Plus, if they build the new China-backed canal in Nicarauga they will have even larger ships.

That might leave most of the Pacific Ports-at least the PNW-shipping coal, petroleum, grain, and logs. That make the PNW a Third World area, shipping our raw materials to somebody else?

maybe they should grow a crop that isn't shipped overseas... or grow just enough to keep the prices profitable but not so much that surplus drives profits even lower so that they have to grow more and be subsidized, unless of course, the goal is to be subsidized so that you dont have to work...

you could always grow a crop that can be fermented into alcohol, if in fact, you do have a surplus that cant be sold locally... but of course, that would be more work which is what everybody is trying to get out of right now...

The Treefarmer ain't afraid of work.

His idea of free drifting is casting off the cut bank and walking along the river 100 yards with his offering. He then walks back up river to cast again.

The dude is the Speedo Man of the Satsop.

You don't think the fear of losing Boeing and what that would do to the political capital of those politicians had any thing to do with those vote totals. I think letting corporations comparison shop for tax breaks is a slippery slope. Then 9 months later they move 2000 engineering jobs anyway. I guess $8.7B wasn't enough for them to actually keep their word. The union didn't draw up that deal it was force fed to them by the company. They voted it down once by a 40% margin. The union did not want to vote on it again. Then the governor put the full court press on them in concert with community pressure to vote on the proposal again. It passed by 2% on fear, but like you say they still have their jobs.

If the PMA gave the ILWU everything they were asking for wouldn't they have had a deal? I outlined the arbitrator issue above. That was the only thing standing in the way of a deal. So why would PMA let all that cargo sit while they layed over shifts for ILWU appointed arbitraitor David Miller? Unless he was worth it.

The common denominator between Boeing and this contract dispute with the PMA is the PR giant Burson-Marsteller. They tried to use a similar game plan by creating a crisis, and controlling the narrative. To create pressure from the public and the government to accept a deal that would damage the long term future of the ILWU. Did they succeed? It looks like there is a tentative agreement on a contract, we'll have to read it and see. It sounds like they agreed to a change in the arbitration process. Its a shame that couldn't have happened sooner.

Another point of information. The PMA is set up so that every member company has a vote on the process. There are a few employers that have been gaming the system through acquisition. In the past acquisitions were absorbed into the parent company. A few of the larger companies learned that if they kept acquisitions as a subsidiary they could keep that extra vote. It has led to 2 or 3 companies being able to dictate the direction of the association. Many of the other companies were not happy, some broke ranks and worked anyway. This resulted in some heavy fines for member companies that did not follow the directive.

Rev, The Governor applied pressure to the union to have a second vote on the proposal that had been overwhelmingly been rejected. He implied that the state had done their part, and if the rank and file voted it down it was on them. He was doing Boeing's bidding for them. That is hanging them out to dry IMO.

My take on the 'facts' are as follows. I think the vote on the tax break had more to do with the fear of the ramifications to political careers if Boeing left, than it did the benefit to the State of Washington. That contract wasn't drawn up by the union it was dictated to them by Boeing. They already had a contract. When that contract was voted down by more than a 2 to 1 margin the union did not want another vote.

ex·tor·tion/ikˈstôrSH(ə)n/
noun
the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.

The word extortion has been thrown around a lot in this thread, but its mostly been misused. So as a courtesy I'm including the definition. The only party using threats was Boeing, unless you know of any force or threats I'm unaware of.

Refer back to the definition, because I'm not getting the joke.

I'm sorry, but I think you're argument about the Governor giving the tax break to appease unions is misguided. Particularly, given the issues above. I assure you he didn't get a flood of union contributions on that day. He probably closed the doors of a few halls to fundraisers. I also think you are misinformed about the amount of labor money contributed to campaigns. Labor is outspent by business 65 to 1. How much influence do you think 1.4% buys?

Its pretty clear that we're not going to agree when it comes to unions.

What would you call it when union members refuse to work, or threaten not to work, and or threaten potential strikebreakers.


I'm afraid that your numbers are wrong. According to the PDC In 2014 unions contributed $8,676,028. or 9% of all contributions while business contributed $24,151,106. or 25% of all contributions, and PAC's, which unions also contribute to, offered up $15,851,166. or 17% of all contributions. So yes I do think polititions are very interested in those funds.


Perhaps not, as I don't see the Unions as being all good or all bad. And I don't consider business to be all good or all bad, I think that they both have a part to play, but I readily admit that I have a hard time finding much room to sympathise with the Longshoreman in this instance.

Full vessel operations start tonight in Seattle.

We have not refused to work, threatened not to work, and I have no idea what strikebreakers you are speaking of.

You are correct, I blew that one and used federal #'s associated with lobbying instead of campaign contributions. Thats what I get for posting at that hour. My apologies, for the mix up. The federal #'s and percentages I researched form secretsout.org are much different than yours. I assume yours refer to Washington state only, I'll take your word for it. It doesn't change my opinion that the Governors actions will put him in a less favorable position with labor.

I think you are right in that no side is all good or all bad. As a longshoreman, I regret that you feel the way you do about us. I can only assume that it stems from your belief that we are overcompensated. My views on alleged compensation have been covered so I'll skip it. The fact is that this dispute had nothing to do with compensation. Since 2002 the issues that have been contentious are related to technology, jurisdiction, and job security. You could make a case for medical this year due to the issues with Obamacare, yet that was still agreed upon in August. The wage negotiations have never seemed to involve much of a struggle, almost as though they are a throw in from PMA. Maybe they view it as an investment toward bolstering their case that we are ungrateful and overcompensated. In any event, I doubt there are many people on here that would balk on a pay increase if offered.