The materials used for the zoom meeting are posted and here is the link.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/get-involved/calenda...ublic-meeting-0


This is a link to the Region 6 presentation to the Commission on 2022 proposals.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/...02022_Final.pdf

What about the discussion above where you actually had some good points and I quoted you and commented. I said NOTHING negative about you and actually agreed with you. Are you so brain dead that you forgot it already? You contribute more then the dickwads I have on ignore, why play the darkside game of posting outright lies (unless of course that's all you have to offer)?

Hey guys why don't you all chill out a bit as your personal differences are yours and just PM your insults back and forth. I doubt that anyone cares to read a pissing match between grown adults acting like four year old kids.

The links I posted up have all the information one needs and is pretty straight forward.

The back and forth squabbling is not productive bro. We fishermen need to be unified if we want to make a difference. Look how the commercials and the tribes always get what they want. Some of you need to chill a bit and get out fishing. We got so many good fishing opportunities so get out there and fish!

Not sure how I feel about tinkering with the penalty box restrictions. One one hand I definitely like a more liberal season, but if history repeats itself then not sticking to it will mean that it's now ok to not follow the agreement. We all have seen the abuse of seasons crafted around "100 paper kings" in the bay.

Agreed. Spending tens of millions on habitat projects to increase available spawning habitat doesn't seem to square with reducing escapement goals to allow for more harvest.

Since my name on this forum has been hijacked by a person harassing me on this site that I have on ignore (see 2nd post above) , by bobbr, to avoid confusion I won't be posting anymore until Parker (the moderator) deals with this P.O.S. If it's not taken care of I won't be posting again, a relief for some, I guess, until it happens to them. Bob

JTFC bobberino if that is all it takes to get rid of your whining, he should have done it long ago.

With the rumor mill alive and well regarding just exactly what came out of the Commission meeting discussion concerning Grays Harbor I e-mailed staff and they provided the following information. Also I previously posted links to the staff presentation to the Commission and that is all I know at the present.

To the question of lack of protection for the tidewater tribs performing well below escapement in recent years the D model shows two fish Rec Coho. Have to wait and see if some sanity arrives but I am not holding my breath as it appears most are in the "I want to kill a fish mode" at the present. Link to information. https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/...02022_Final.pdf

FROM STAFF:

Morning ,

We are still in negotiation with the co-managers concerning GH commercial seasons, so no updated models at this time. The sport season in the model you attached is most likely the season moving forward.

We didn’t actually present a model to the Fish Committee, we presented and talked about the range of impacts from the original model runs, A-C. I hadn’t developed model D yet when we originally started preparation for the presentation. So, the Commission granted us permission to develop a package that basically doesn’t exceed 20%, I think that was the impact on Chehalis Coho from model A. When we finalize agreement with QIN, we will make sure to get it distributed as soon as possible.


MODEL D REC SEASONS:


Model 2 - NT Comm 2A/D 3-Wk 44, 2-Wk 45, 2C 4-Wk 43, 2-44; FW 1 fish Chehalis (FRAM 2124a)
Fishery Description
Sport
Marine 2.2 Dates Bag Limit
Area 2D only Sept 16-Oct 31 2 Adult bag: release Chinook (east of 2B only)
Area 2C only Aug 1-Sept 15 1 Adult bag: release wild Coho

Chehalis River Mouth to Hwy 6 No spring Chinook fishery
Chehalis River Mouth to South Elma Bridge Aug 1-Sept 15 : Release adult salmon
Chehalis river mouth to Fuller Bridge Sept 16-Oct 31 2 Adult bag: Release Chinook
Chehalis river mouth to Fuller Bridge Nov 1 Adult bag: Release Chinook
Chehalis river mouth to Fuller Bridge Dec 1 Adult bag: Release Chinook and adult wild coho
Chehalis River Fuller Bridge up to High Bridge Oct 1-Oct 31 2 Adult bag: Release Chinook
Chehalis River Fuller Bridge up to High Bridge Nov 1 Adult bag: Release Chinook
Chehalis River Fuller Bridge up to High Bridge Dec 1 Adult bag: Release Chinook and adult wild coho

Hoquiam Oct 1-Oct 31 2 Adult bag: Release Chinook
Nov 1 Adult bag: Release Chinook
Wishkah Oct 1-Oct 31 2 Adult bag: Release Chinook
Nov 1 Adult bag: Release Chinook

Wynoochee Oct 1-Oct 31 2 Adult bag: Release Chinook
Nov 1 Adult bag: Release Chinook
Satsop Oct 1-Oct 31 2 Adult bag: Release Chinook
Nov 1 Adult bag: Release Chinook

Black River Oct 1-Oct 31 2 Adult bag: Release Chinook
Nov 1 Adult bag: Release Chinook
Skookumchuck Oct 1-Oct 31 2 Adult bag: Release Chinook
Nov 1 Adult bag: Release Chinook

Newaukum Oct 1-Oct 31 2 Adult bag: Release Chinook
Nov 1 Adult bag: Release Chinook
Elk and Johns Oct. 1-Dec 31 2 Adult bag: Release Chinook
1 Adult bag: Release Chinook
Humptulips River FW Sept. 1-Sept 30 2 Adult bag: release wild Coho
Oct. 1-Oct 31 2 Adult bag: 1 may be Chinook, release wild Chinook and wild Coho
Nov 1-Dec 31 1 Adult bag: release adult Chinook and wild Coho

110,000 paper Coho. Gonna be some FAT cutthroats on some of those tribs. Hoping the run materializes to somewhat justify keeping two fish, although I really agree with you regarding the lower tribs. I’m of the opinion that we should let these fish get to the gravel and hopefully see the results 3-4 years from now. Why manage to the minimum? Never know if there’s gonna be major flood events in January and February that destroy the redds and smother the eggs.

Keeping my fingers crossed for one fish bag, but only on the tribs that can handle it.

The Rec season outlined above is Model D which is what staff was referring to.

As one looks at management and numbers it must be remembered that the agreed-to structure since Boldt is that a single fish above the escapement goal is wastage. Two would be catastrophic.

Fisheries have been opened to take less than 10 harvestable fish. There was one time when it was identified that the NI side had less than 100 Chinook left. It was suggested to the local tribes that these fish just be passed through to escapement. Their response was that they would catch them. Basically, there was (and probably still isn't) the will to leave a buffer above the identified goal.

(Responding to Rivrguy)

Right. It still surprises me that they are willing to overlook the low spawning numbers on the Nooch and other lower river tributaries, to allow a retention fishery. From my personal experience, I last fished the Nooch for Coho in 2020, and while I caught fish, it certainly wasn't red hot fishing like the Satsop or Hump. The department must know this. Why push these populations even closer to the brink when there are other rivers with large numbers of hatchery fish or healthier wild populations? Honest question. Does it have something to do with "opportunity"?

Jesus... managing to the minimum... Playing devil's advocate, is there any potential justification for this? i.e. too many juveniles over-consuming what the river can support?

Well now story time. Once years back Ron Warren says we got XXX chum left and Doc and Recs said let them go to the gravel but Allen says we will take them . NT Commercials did just that. So it is the escapement goal that is the floor and in the Commission presentation by staff is a look at forecast / harvest / escapement for 5 years. ( I think with out looking ) Take a look and explain how any damn body can say that we do not have a harvest problem. It is really ugly in the marine when the forecast is wrong as they harvest and extend harvest time until they reach the all powerful mystical harvest quota.

Nothing in the entire NOF or post Boldt fisheries is about the fish and conservation! I mean look at this year with streams on the ropes for years and a OK forecast but not great and the many who shouted out conservation for many years now look like starving dogs and a 2 lb roast.

The only and honest answer on how to fix it is simple. The harvest rate applied to the Chehalis Basin by BOTH of the co-managers is to high. That simple / complex and the harvest rate must be reduced or the decline will continue.

How do I know you ask? Just look at Late Coho and Steelhead and both WDFW and Tribes saw that disaster coming did noting until they damn near destroyed the wild Steelhead runs. This not brain surgery but simple observation. Fisheries management is one of the few things where failure to make objectives is an acceptable outcome.

Gotcha. Makes sense with the escapement goal being the problem. You'd think policy-makers would've learned through many other examples that endless consumption might not be the best way to do things. Timber, oil, fisheries, hunting. I don't understand how populations of other animals can be managed to improve numbers, yet fish can't. Deer, ducks, many other animals have made gigantic comebacks over the last century, yet we're failing with fish. I understand we can only control the ocean so much, but fishing up to and through goals by commercial and rec fleets doesn't seem smart.

Im sure we won't be fishing after Nov 30th..

That’s my assumption as well.

Here's another model that will surely be filled in the trash can, close the entire Chehalis basin for 4 years, tribes too.
Fix the problem, not stringing it out until ESA or extinction.

Sad, because there’s honestly more support for that than they want to believe. Problem is, that would need to include Alaskan and BC fisheries too. Always have wanted to know how many of our fish get caught up there. If only each state or each major system had their own identifying mark. Missing adipose, left pectoral, right pectoral, left or right ventral could each identify Washington fish, Oregon fish, puget sound fish, Olympia fish, etc. would be interesting to see.