Beezy - I'd say its a little bit of both. If his weapon is that important to him and he wasn't trying to get a reaction, he'd conceal carry. As for the other folks that get nervous, they need to chill and quit being such pansies. It's not the guy with a visible gun on his hip that you have to worry about. Criminals don't usually advertise that they are criminals. Also, this situation depends greatly on where you live. Out here in the politically correct, overly vaginized PNW, its a problem to most. In parts of Wyoming, Montana et. al. you get strange looks if you DON'T have a wheel gun on your hip.

I think NickD90 answered the above succinctly.


I think that you have an interesting point of view, because the gun violence statistics are the same for him as they are for the anti gun zealots, the issue is that their reactions to those statistics are diametrically opposed to his. I think if he "has an overactive imagination, lacks statistical comprehension, and is paranoid" then judging from many of the reactions of the anti gun zealots, that they must also have those tendencies.

I did a little search for school and mass shootings for the last 10 years... anyone else see the common theme? lots of teenage kids shooting others with I guessing, their parents guns... and a few nut job psycho's age 28 and less that are probably getting thiers legally.

whatever the solution our government decides not to come up with, it should've addressed the age of the person and their access to guns. Like you can't buy a gun till you're 30 unless you have a complete psychological analysis performed or you have a co-signer take responsibility for your actions. And if you're a parent with a gun in the house, you better take steps to see that your kid doesn't take it to school and shoot someone or you'll end up dead by your own gun or broke and in jail.



Feb. 2, 1996
Moses Lake, Wash. Two students and one teacher killed, one other wounded when 14-year-old Barry Loukaitis opened fire on his algebra class.

Feb. 19, 1997
Bethel, Alaska Principal and one student killed, two others wounded by Evan Ramsey, 16.

Oct. 1, 1997
Pearl, Miss. Two students killed and seven wounded by Luke Woodham, 16, who was also accused of killing his mother. He and his friends were said to be outcasts who worshiped Satan.

Dec. 1, 1997
West Paducah, Ky. Three students killed, five wounded by Michael Carneal, 14, as they participated in a prayer circle at Heath High School.

Dec. 15, 1997
Stamps, Ark. Two students wounded. Colt Todd, 14, was hiding in the woods when he shot the students as they stood in the parking lot.

March 24, 1998
Jonesboro, Ark. Four students and one teacher killed, ten others wounded outside as Westside Middle School emptied during a false fire alarm. Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, shot at their classmates and teachers from the woods.

April 24, 1998
Edinboro, Pa. One teacher, John Gillette, killed, two students wounded at a dance at James W. Parker Middle School. Andrew Wurst, 14, was charged.

May 19, 1998
Fayetteville, Tenn. One student killed in the parking lot at Lincoln County High School three days before he was to graduate. The victim was dating the ex-girlfriend of his killer, 18-year-old honor student Jacob Davis.

May 21, 1998
Springfield, Ore. Two students killed, 22 others wounded in the cafeteria at Thurston High School by 15-year-old Kip Kinkel. Kinkel had been arrested and released a day earlier for bringing a gun to school. His parents were later found dead at home.

June 15, 1998
Richmond, Va. One teacher and one guidance counselor wounded by a 14-year-old boy in the school hallway.

April 20, 1999
Littleton, Colo. 14 students (including killers) and one teacher killed, 23 others wounded at Columbine High School in the nation's deadliest school shooting. Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, had plotted for a year to kill at least 500 and blow up their school. At the end of their hour-long rampage, they turned their guns on themselves.

May 20, 1999
Conyers, Ga. Six students injured at Heritage High School by Thomas Solomon, 15, who was reportedly depressed after breaking up with his girlfriend.

Nov. 19, 1999
Deming, N.M. Victor Cordova Jr., 12, shot and killed Araceli Tena, 13, in the lobby of Deming Middle School.

Dec. 6, 1999
Fort Gibson, Okla. Four students wounded as Seth Trickey, 13, opened fire with a 9mm semiautomatic handgun at Fort Gibson Middle School.

Feb. 29, 2000
Mount Morris Township, Mich. Six-year-old Kayla Rolland shot dead at Buell Elementary School near Flint, Mich. The assailant was identified as a six-year-old boy with a .32-caliber handgun.

March 10, 2000
Savannah, Ga. Two students killed by Darrell Ingram, 19, while leaving a dance sponsored by Beach High School.

May 26, 2000
Lake Worth, Fla. One teacher, Barry Grunow, shot and killed at Lake Worth Middle School by Nate Brazill, 13, with .25-caliber semiautomatic pistol on the last day of classes.

Sept. 26, 2000
New Orleans, La. Two students wounded with the same gun during a fight at Woodson Middle School.

Jan. 17, 2001
Baltimore, Md. One student shot and killed in front of Lake Clifton Eastern High School.

Jan. 18, 2001
Jan, Sweden One student killed by two boys, ages 17 and 19.

March 5, 2001
Santee, Calif. Two killed and 13 wounded by Charles Andrew Williams, 15, firing from a bathroom at Santana High School.

March 7, 2001
Williamsport, Pa. Elizabeth Catherine Bush, 14, wounded student Kimberly Marchese in the cafeteria of Bishop Neumann High School; she was depressed and frequently teased.

March 22, 2001
Granite Hills, Calif. One teacher and three students wounded by Jason Hoffman, 18, at Granite Hills High School. A policeman shot and wounded Hoffman.

March 30, 2001
Gary, Ind. One student killed by Donald R. Burt, Jr., a 17-year-old student who had been expelled from Lew Wallace High School.

Nov. 12, 2001
Caro, Mich. Chris Buschbacher, 17, took two hostages at the Caro Learning Center before killing himself.

Jan. 15, 2002
New York, N.Y. A teenager wounded two students at Martin Luther King Jr. High School.

October 28, 2002
Tucson, Ariz. Robert S. Flores Jr., 41, a student at the nursing school at the University of Arizona, shot and killed three female professors and then himself.

April 14, 2003
New Orleans, La. One 15-year-old killed, and three students wounded at John McDonogh High School by gunfire from four teenagers (none were students at the school). The motive was gang-related.

April 24, 2003
Red Lion, Pa. James Sheets, 14, killed principal Eugene Segro of Red Lion Area Junior High School before killing himself.

Sept. 24, 2003
Cold Spring, Minn. Two students are killed at Rocori High School by John Jason McLaughlin, 15.

March 21, 2005
Red Lake, Minn. Jeff Weise, 16, killed grandfather and companion, then arrived at school where he killed a teacher, a security guard, 5 students, and finally himself, leaving a total of 10 dead.

Nov. 8, 2005
Jacksboro, Tenn. One 15-year-old shot and killed an assistant principal at Campbell County High School and seriously wounded two other administrators.

Aug. 24, 2006
Essex, Vt. Christopher Williams, 27, looking for his ex-girlfriend at Essex Elementary School, shot two teachers, killing one and wounding another. Before going to the school, he had killed the ex-girlfriend's mother.

Sept. 27, 2006
Bailey, Colo. Adult male held six students hostage at Platte Canyon High School and then shot and killed Emily Keyes, 16, and himself.

Sept. 29, 2006
Cazenovia, Wis. A 15-year-old student shot and killed Weston School principal John Klang.

Oct. 3, 2006
Nickel Mines, Pa. 32-year-old Carl Charles Roberts IV entered the one-room West Nickel Mines Amish School and shot 10 schoolgirls, ranging in age from 6 to 13 years old, and then himself. Five of the girls and Roberts died.

Jan. 3, 2007
Tacoma, Wash. Douglas Chanthabouly, 18, shot fellow student Samnang Kok, 17, in the hallway of Henry Foss High School.

April 16, 2007
Blacksburg, Va. A 23-year-old Virginia Tech student, Cho Seung-Hui, killed two in a dorm, then killed 30 more 2 hours later in a classroom building. His suicide brought the death toll to 33, making the shooting rampage the most deadly in U.S. history. Fifteen others were wounded.

Sept. 21, 2007
Dover, Del. A Delaware State Univesity Freshman, Loyer D. Brandon, shot and wounded two other Freshman students on the University campus. Brandon is being charged with attempted murder, assault, reckless engagement, as well as a gun charge.

Oct. 10, 2007
Cleveland, Ohio A 14-year-old student at a Cleveland high school, Asa H. Coon, shot and injured two students and two teachers before he shot and killed himself. The victims' injuries were not life-threatening.

Feb. 8, 2008
Baton Rouge, Louisiana A nursing student shot and killed two women and then herself in a classroom at Louisiana Technical College in Baton Rouge.

Feb. 11, 2008
Memphis, Tennessee A 17-year-old student at Mitchell High School shot and wounded a classmate in gym class.

Feb. 12, 2008
Oxnard, California A 14-year-old boy shot a student at E.O. Green Junior High School causing the 15-year-old victim to be brain dead.

Feb. 14, 2008
DeKalb, Illinois Gunman killed five students and then himself, and wounded 17 more when he opened fire on a classroom at Northern Illinois University. The gunman, Stephen P. Kazmierczak, was identified as a former graduate student at the university in 2007.

Nov. 12, 2008
Fort Lauderdale, Florida A 15-year-old female student was shot and killed by a classmate at Dillard High School in Fort Lauderdale.

Feb. 5, 2010
Madison, Alabama At Discovery Middle School, a ninth-grader was shot by another student during a class change. The boy, whose name was not released, pulled out a gun and shot Todd Brown in the head while walking the hallway. Brown later died at Huntsville Hospital.

Jan. 5, 2011
Omaha, Nebraska Two people were killed and two more injured in a shooting at Millard South High School. Shortly after being suspended from school, the shooter returned and shot the assistant principal, principal, and the school nurse. The shooter then left campus and took his own life.

Jan. 5, 2011
Houston, Texas Two people opened fire during a Worthing High School powder-puff football game. One former student died. Five other people were injured.

May 10, 2011
San Jose, California Three people were killed in a parking garage at San Jose State University. Two former students were found dead on the fifth floor of the garage. A third, the suspected shooter, died later at the hospital.

Dec. 8, 2011
Blacksburg, Virginia A Virginia Tech police officer was shot and killed by a 22-year old student of Radford University. The shooting took place in a parking lot on Virginia Tech's campus.

Feb. 10, 2012
Walpole, New Hampshire A 14-year-old student shot himself in front of 70 fellow students.

Feb. 27, 2012
Chardon, Ohio At Chardon High School, a former classmate opened fire, killing three students and injuring six. Arrested shortly after the incident, the shooter said that he randomly picked students.

March 6, 2012
Jacksonville, Florida Shane Schumerth, a 28-year-old teacher at Episcopal High School, returned to the campus after being fired and shot and killed the headmistress, Dale Regan, with an assault rifle.

April 2, 2012
Oakland, Calif. One Goh, a 43-year-old former student at Oikos University, a Christian school populated by mostly Korean and Korean-Americans, opened fire on the campus, killing seven people and wounding several others.

July 20, 2012
Aurora, Colo. During a midnight screening of the film The Dark Knight Rises, a gunman opens fire on the crowded theater. At least 12 people are killed and 38 others are wounded. The suspect, James Holmes, set off a smoke device in the front of the theater before opening fire. Directly after the incident, Holmes, age 24, was arrested in a parking lot behind the theater.

December 11, 2012
Portland, Ore. Jacob Tyler Roberts, 22, opened fire in the Clackamas Town Center mall, located 11 miles from downtown Portland, Oregon. Using an AR-15 semiautomatic assault rifle, Roberts killed two people and wounded one other. He then took his own life.

December 14, 2012
Newtown, Conn. Adam Lanza, 20, killed 20 children and six others at the Sandy Hook Elementary School. He killed his mother, Nancy, at her home prior to the massacre at the school. Lanza committed suicide after the rampage. The shooting was the second deadliest in U.S. history, behind the 2007 shooting at Virginia Polytechnic Institute that claimed 32 people.

October 21, 2013
Sparks, Nevada A middle-school student shoots and kills Michael Landsberry, a math teacher at Sparks Middle School. The student then shot himself in front of other students.

May 23, 2014
Isla Vista, California A gunman, identified as Elliot Rodger, kills six people and wounds 13 others in Isla Vista, Calif., a small town near Santa Barbara. He stabs three men in his apartment before driving to locations throughout the town where he kills three students from the University of California, Santa Barbara. Before the rampage, Rodger, age 22, posts a video called "Elliot Rodger's Retribution" on his YouTube Channel and writes a 137-page manifesto. In both, he expresses his anger over being rejected by women and his plans for revenge.

June 5, 2014
Seattle, Washington A man armed with a shotgun opens fire at Seattle Pacific University, killing one student and wounding two others. The suspect, Aaron Ybarra, 26, is not a student at the college. He was subdued by a student security guard and taken into custody.

October 24, 2014
Marysville, Washington Jaylen Ray Fryberg, a popular freshman at Marysville-Pilchuck High School, opens fire in the cafeteria, killing two students and critically wounding three others before turning the gun on himself.

June 17, 2015
Charleston, South Carolina A white male opened fire during a prayer service at the historically significant Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, killing nine people, including Rev. Clementa Pinckney, the church's pastor and a state senator. The alleged gunman, Dylann Storm Roof, 21, sat in the church for about an hour before beginning the rampage. He was caught about 200 miles away on June 18.

October 1, 2015
Roseburg, Oregon. A gunman opened fire at Umpqua Community College. Ten people were killed and seven more wounded. The suspected shooter, 26- year-old Chris Harper Mercer, was killed while exchanging gunfire with the police.

I read that only 1/2 of one percent of CC actually commit crimes with their weapon. Even less than LE as a whole. We should take that 150 billion from Iran and put metal detectors in all schools nation wide.But do people want that? I don't think so, besides these whackos will just target other places. Most facts show that a armed society is a polite society. I've been a CW holder since 1983 and carry 80% of the time. I'm glad some people like to open carry, for the fact that some laws get swept under the rug when not carried out and seem harder to bring back.

I've only opened carried once in the city when Starbucks came out and said they would honor state law of open carry in their stores, more of a solidarity thing to me.
I just don't want the hassle of some freaked out person calling 911 and reporting me. I just don't need the stress, plus I like the element of surprise.

Reality is, these type of things will continue. They are extremely rare, you're probably more likely to be hit by lighting twice in a year.

Excellent point. Thank you.

With all respect, nearly all of these shootings have a trail in social media that should have alerted someone.

perhaps the bureau of Alcohol, Tabacco and firearms should become the bureau of Alcohol, tabocco and cannibis... and homeland security be split into two groups Homeland security: foreign and domestic

From Hillary


Finally, Clinton will call for a repeal of the legal immunity that gun manufacturers and dealers currently enjoy under a 2005 law called the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. This could be the most politically provocative of the four proposals. Not only is the immunity a prized possession of the NRA, but it is something that Sanders voted for while a member of the House of Representatives. Clinton, who was a senator representing New York at the time, voted against it.

Working with Sol Duc must suck.

Hank used to open carry at work.






Now he just totes around a man purse with a strap on dildo inside.

The best deterrent is a deterrent.

These cowards focus on locations where there is none.

In my opinion, responsible gun owners fighting back, is a pretty good deterrent.

It's pretty obvious his daddy with the accent and mommy with the gun fetish were anything but responsible.

I was struck by the sheer length of the list of school shootings Piper posted. I knew I'd heard the story far too many times; seeing the list was a real eye-opener. Not sure it can be solved, but we definitely have a big issue here.

Sol Duc referred to a statistic indicating that a person's odds of getting struck by lightning multiple times is more likely than being a victim in a shooting like this. As a father of three students, I think those odds are unacceptably high.

The scary thing for me is that I can remember what it's like to feel alienated or misunderstood (can't we all remember feeling that way at least once in high school?). I recall pondering, if only for a moment, doing something rash to make myself heard or make everyone sorry they didn't treat me better. Young adulthood is probably the stage of our lives during which we are most emotionally fragile. It's also the stage where we start to become increasingly aware of the injustices life throws our way on a regular basis. For some, it seems those stresses become too much to bear. The line between those individuals and the ones who make it through without lashing out is becoming frighteningly thin.

So why is this stuff so much more common in the Information Age? I'm not sure, but I think the Internet becoming the preferred medium for person to person communication has played a significant role. As has been noted in this thread, there generally seems to be a social media post or a person to person text string that provides clues that something like this might be coming. As this forum demonstrates (to our great joy), it's a lot easier to summon the courage to write mean, degrading things about people than it is to insult people face to face. This means a lot more damaging things get "said." Often, it also means a much larger audience sees what has been "said" and feels obliged to pile on. The victim can literally count the number of "friends" who have made antagonistic posts. Seems to me the "proof" that "nobody likes me" could be much harder for a young person to get past than a few things a couple people said (AFTER applying the face to face filter, which usually makes the message less harsh) but that they will never need to hear (or read) again.

The other thing the Information Age assures a person who makes the choice to commit such an act (also pointed out by others) is instantaneous, worldwide publication of his/her story and enough media attention to make his/her name infamous (which is just as good as famous when all you want is attention).

Violent video games probably make it easier for some of these misguided individuals to visualize mass acts of violence, but I think their role is probably small, relative to the emotional bullying young people subject each other to. Bullying has always been there. I think it was just easier for young victims to convince themselves that one bully's feelings about them didn't represent everyone else's feelings in the days before everyone else had a way to pile on their own insults, in a place where the victim can read all the hate, over and over, until they fully believe nobody likes them.

Repost. Oops.

No social media, go volunteer, and have a father figure in your life that will set you straight.

Modern instant gratification society & fame seeking
Everyone is a unique and special snowflake
Mommy and Daddy working until all hours to make it
Everyone is a winner
Destruction of family unit
Media hysteria and need for ratings
Feminism and castration of males
Violent video games with a reset button
Kids pumped full of meds & SSRI's
Social media in all forms
Tenants of Communism
No jobs, no futures and massive student loan debt
Removal of religion and status of a higher power
Street drugs - lots of street drugs
Sexual frustration
Violent crime and glorification of criminal elements
Unchecked immigration
Removal of forced institutionalization
Broken educational systems and zero tolerance

The list goes on and on and on...

It's not weapons. It's our modern day society we've created for ourselves. Weapons are the "easy" target to go after. The above list is really hard to tackle.
Kids and people are going to continue to die until we get it fixed. We won't get it fixed. Happy Monday....

that's a good list nick. I guess I'll add that when I was in high school pagers were cool. I can't imagine kids being bullied at school and at home with facebook. Bullying will always be around but it shouldn't be 24/7.

"Sexual frustration"

When I was in school I would simply release the prisoners.

Amazing how much better I felt.

Also I told my kids that facebook is wack. Old people are on it, like the oldest people on earth. That changed their minds.

When I was in high school, "guns at school" meant we were going bird hunting after class. All we had to do was leave shotguns and ammo vests in the principle's office as we lugged them off the school bus in the morning, unless you drove to school - then you had to leave them in the trunk of your car in the school parking lot.

Interesting list and let us not forget that traffic crashes are the leading cause of death for teenagers across the United States. Across all age groups in the US, there are more deaths from traffic crashes than guns even though the statistics are only slightly in favor of car crashes.

Did I miss the president’s speech of the 5 fatalities and about 50 injuries that involved a bus loaded with students and the duck vehicle on the Seattle bridge recently? (rhetorical)