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#948272 - 01/22/16 11:08 AM Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Take Over Bird Refuge *** [Re: ]
Illahee Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3771
First they were here for the Hammonds
Then they are here for the people of Harney co.
Then it was for all ranchers, miners and loggers
Now it is cause of god.
Wonder when the public beheadings will start?

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#948274 - 01/22/16 11:37 AM Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Take Over Bird Refuge [Re: Illahee]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
They have already threatened their detractors with statements like it's funny now, "wait until we start going door to door..."...

Good thing they don't like fascism, because they are it, them and the rest of the Trumpsters.

Fish on...

Todd
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#948278 - 01/22/16 12:00 PM Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Take Over Bird Refuge [Re: ]
The Moderator Offline
The Chosen One

Registered: 02/09/00
Posts: 13941
Loc: Tuleville
Originally Posted By: Hankster
The libturds have nothing to say about that.


Can't speak for the libturds, but honestly, no Warshintonion cares what happens to anyone in Cali. smile

As to that little traffic issue - sounds like a normal Friday here with Seattle Traffic......
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Tule King Paker

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#948279 - 01/22/16 12:02 PM Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Take Over Bird Refuge [Re: Illahee]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Hank, every once in a while I think you are just being a troll, but times like these convince me that you are every bit of a loony tune as Rich G is.

Fish on...

Todd
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Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#948282 - 01/22/16 12:12 PM Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Take Over Bird Refuge [Re: ]
The Moderator Offline
The Chosen One

Registered: 02/09/00
Posts: 13941
Loc: Tuleville
Originally Posted By: Hankster
No one in Washington cares about what happens in Washington either.


True dat!

rofl
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Tule King Paker

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#948288 - 01/22/16 12:27 PM Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Take Over Bird Refuge [Re: ]
Illahee Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3771
So the fact these "protesters" are armed and have said if the FBI tries to remove them they will use these weapons, is the same as unarmed peaceful demonstrators?
Or is it you agree with their seemingly ridiculous demands to give public land to loggers, miners and ranchers?
And lastly please explain how this is somehow partisan in nature.

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#948293 - 01/22/16 12:48 PM Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Take Over Bird Refuge [Re: ]
Illahee Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3771
Originally Posted By: Hankster
Right, Illahee-hee.

None of those "peaceful demonstrators" burned down businesses, smashed windows or prevented people from going about their daily lives. None of their sympathizers ever shot and killed any cops either. rolleyes

The gubmint gives land to loggers, miners and ranchers every day. It's when they take it away that pisses some folks off.

A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. You ever hear that?



And what land was taken away?
Perhaps we need to review what's transpired up to now.


"For example, this is how the Bundy family described the origin of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge:

(aa) The Harney Basin (were the Hammond ranch is established) was settled in the 1870s. The valley was settled by multiple ranchers and was known to have run over 300,000 head of cattle. These ranchers developed a state of the art irrigated system to water the meadows, and it soon became a favorite stopping place for migrating birds on their annual trek north.
(ab) In 1908 President Theodor (sic) Roosevelt, in a political scheme, create an “Indian reservation” around the Malheur, Mud & Harney Lakes and declared it “as a preserve and breeding ground for native birds”. Later this “Indian reservation” (without Indians) became the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

In this revisionist history, the land was empty and worthless until white settlers came with their cattle and fortitude and the federal government engaged in a deceptive scheme to rob the real owners of their land and their hard-won improvements.

As eloquently told in Libertarian Fairy Tales (Jan 7, 2016) by Aaron Bady:

For the Bundys, then, nothing really happened before the 1870s. They do not mention Spanish explorers in 1532, or French Canadian trappers, or the British occupation after the war of 1812, or Oregon statehood in the 1850s. Their story most definitely does not begin thousands of years ago, when the first people settled the region. They have no time for how the Army re-settled the northern Paiute in the Malheur Indian reservation in 1872 – emptying Harney County for settlement by white people – nor how those same white settlers demanded (and got) the reservation dis-established in 1879 so they could have that land too.

But history didn’t begin in the 1870s. A lot had to happen before rancher-settlers could run hundreds of thousands of cattle in Harney County, and so a lot has to be forgotten by ideologues like the Bundy family. In part, this is because most of the pre-1870 erasures was done by the federal government. Obviously, the US military first had to ethnically cleanse the land, getting rid of the various native peoples that had lived in these stretches for thousands of years. But even after the land had become “free” to white settlers, prospective ranchers still needed markets for their cattle, especially once their primary market for meat, the Army, had moved on to other territories. It was the federal government that stepped in and bailed them out, taking on debt by an act of Congress to finance and build a railroad system. Without the Central Pacific Railway, those thousands of cattle could never have been sold.

Despite the Bundy mythology of family farming and homesteading – individual homesteads headed by patriarchal Free Men – cattle ranching in Harney County was first and foremost a corporate concern. For one thing, raising cattle is and has always been a capital-intensive industry, so Harney County ranchers had to be, and were, financed by businessmen in California, which is where most of the ranchers originally came from. In the 1860s and ’70s, the prospects for cattle ranching in California had become dim: A few major droughts and a piece of fencing legislation in 1874 (which favored planted agriculture over stock-raising by placing the financial burden for fencing on cattle ranchers instead of on grain farmers) effectively closed the California range, sending herds east into the northern Great Basin.

When Peter French first came to Harney County in 1872, for example, he represented Hugh J. Glenn, a businessman in Sacramento, acquiring land and cattle for what he would eventually incorporate (in California) as the French-Glenn Livestock Company. French would marry into Hugh J. Glenn’s family, but only after their business partnership had been consummated, becoming one of the two major corporations that owned the vast majority of the ranchland in the county. Peter French acquired his land by any means necessary, but all of it had originally been acquired by and then from the federal government. Sometimes French bought it from discouraged family settlers, who were looking to move on; sometimes he forced them to move on, so they would sell their land to him. Sometimes he quietly fenced off and seized what would have otherwise been public rangeland; according to a General Land Office report of 1886–87, around 30,000 acres of commons had somehow found itself enclosed by French-Glenn fences. Another means of sidestepping the law was for his own employees to file homestead claims and then immediately sell the land to their employer (according to historian Margaret Lo Piccolo Sullivan, French-Glenn acquired around 27,000 acres between 1882 and 1889, of which around 16,000 were “purchased” from employees listed on the company ledger). …

After the 1870s, the story of Harney County ranching became a story of class warfare, as cattle barons such as French sought to expand and monopolize the range by destroying or incorporating smaller competitors. The underlying economics – and corrupt local governance – tended to favor the syndicate: Only well-capitalized firms, with many employees, had the resources to drive their cattle to the nearest railhead, hundreds of miles away, so small-scale ranchers often had no choice but to sell their cattle to the big operations (at whatever price the large operations chose to buy). Large firms could drive small ranches out of business, simply by refusing to buy from them. Of course, sometimes the big fish eating the little fish paid their own price: Hugh J. Glenn would be killed by a disgruntled employee, and Peter French, in turn, would be shot and killed in 1897 by a small-holder whose farm he had encircled as part of a long-running border dispute. But that was the old West.

The era of the great cattle barons had already passed, long before the Hammonds moved to Oregon and bought their ranch in the Diamond Valley, what had once been a part of French’s 140,000-acre empire. When the frontier closed at the dawn of the 20th century, sheep farms, drought, and desertification put the big cattle ranches into debt: The French-Glenn Livestock Company would be sold to Henry L. Corbett in 1907 and become part of the Blitzen Valley Land Company, which would in turn be re-organized as the Eastern Oregon Livestock Company, in 1916. But in 1935, the company would be underwater again, this time for good; its shareholders would look to the government to buy them out.

The 65,000-acre Blitzen Valley tract, which was the last of the French-Glenn ranching empire, was purchased for the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in 1935, and the 14,000 acre Double-O unit was bought from another livestock company in 1942. No ranchers were ever displaced by the creation of the Refuge, the expansion of which was as much a cattle industry bailout as a boon to nature and those who enjoy it.

The myth of the free and hardy small-scale rancher is largely that. Before the federal agencies came to eastern Oregon, large out-of-state ranching operations had monopolized hundreds of thousands of acres of rangeland. Irrigation developers controlled water, cattle barons controlled the grass, and settlers were essentially locked out.

From the Harpers “Letter From Nevada”:

In 1885, William A. J. Sparks, the commissioner of the General Land Office, reported to Congress that “unscrupulous speculation” had resulted in “the worst forms of land monopoly …throughout regions dominated by cattle-raising interests.” West of the hundredth meridian, cattle barons had enclosed the best forage along with scarce supplies of water in an arid landscape. They falsified titles using the signatures of cowhands and family members, employed fictitious identities to stake claims, and faked improvements on the land to appear to comply with the law. “Probably most private range land in the western states” a historian of the industry concluded “was originally obtained by various degrees of fraud”


Edited by Illahee (01/22/16 01:10 PM)

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#948312 - 01/22/16 01:39 PM Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Take Over Bird Refuge [Re: ]
Illahee Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3771
Originally Posted By: Hankster
None of those dumfuk rednecks givaflyinfuk about what you cut and pasted, Illahee-hee.

Just like the #BlackLivesMatter and Occupy Wall Street dumfuks, it's their perception of what's happening that matters to them.


So your a redneck?
You never answered any of my questions.

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#948317 - 01/22/16 01:48 PM Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Take Over Bird Refuge [Re: ]
Illahee Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3771
Originally Posted By: Hankster
I didn't think you could get any more f'n stupid than you are, but there you go.


So ya got nothin.
You know Hank it's really hard to agree with fuckos and not become one.

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#948319 - 01/22/16 01:57 PM Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Take Over Bird Refuge [Re: ]
Illahee Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3771
Originally Posted By: Hankster
Listen, dumfuk.

I never once said I agree with those dumfuk rednecks.

I don't agree with the #BlackLivesMatter dumfuks or the Occupy Wall Street dumfuks either.



So your point is?
What will probably happen to the welfare cowboys is they will be tried and convicted of domestic terrorism, which would be hugely ironic, don't you think?

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#948321 - 01/22/16 02:03 PM Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Take Over Bird Refuge [Re: Illahee]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
I think it will be fuckin fantastic when they are.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#948326 - 01/22/16 02:09 PM Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Take Over Bird Refuge [Re: ]
Illahee Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3771
Originally Posted By: Hankster
My point is I don't agree with those dumfuk rednecks. They dug their hole and they can bury themselves in it as far as I'm concerned.

Another point is you're more of a dumfuk than I ever dreamed possible.


And this issue is partisan how?

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#948336 - 01/22/16 02:33 PM Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Take Over Bird Refuge [Re: Illahee]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
You realize that saying "libturd" and "libtard" every sentence isn't actual analysis, or logic, or anything at all, right?

No, of course you don't.

You also realize that every time someone points out a right wing fruitcake doing something stupid that it's not really analysis to ignore it and point at something a "libtard" has done, instead, too, right?

No, of course you don't.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#948339 - 01/22/16 02:59 PM Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Take Over Bird Refuge [Re: ]
Illahee Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3771
Originally Posted By: Hankster
Originally Posted By: Todd
You realize that saying "libturd" and "libtard" every sentence isn't actual analysis, or logic, or anything at all, right?

No, of course you don't.

You also realize that every time someone points out a right wing fruitcake doing something stupid that it's not really analysis to ignore it and point at something a "libtard" has done, instead, too, right?

No, of course you don't.

Calling you a "libturd" or a "libtard" is every bit as analytical as you calling me a "right wing fruitcake".

Would it make you feel any better if I called you a left wing looney tune from now on?

I could even shorten that to LWLT.


Your the one who seems to think this is partisan.
So what conservative values do these militants represent?


Edited by Illahee (01/22/16 02:59 PM)

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#948340 - 01/22/16 03:07 PM Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Take Over Bird Refuge [Re: Illahee]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Hank, you are a real piece of work. You and Trump deserve each other, I'm sure he'll be happy to have your support.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#948346 - 01/22/16 03:23 PM Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Take Over Bird Refuge [Re: Illahee]
Bent Metal Offline
Carcass

Registered: 01/09/14
Posts: 2298
Loc: Sky River(WA) Clearwater(Id)
Illa-Hankster, cross between Trump and Cruz...
_________________________




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#948357 - 01/22/16 04:05 PM Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Take Over Bird Refuge [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Originally Posted By: Hankster
Originally Posted By: Todd
Todd, you are a real piece of work. You and Berniebillary deserve each other, I'm sure he'll be happy to have your support.

I don't know how many times I need to tell you libturds I don't support Trump.

Generally speaking, I can tell a smart person something once and they get it. It must take more than that for you.


So you won't be voting for him when he wins the Republican nomination?

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#948372 - 01/22/16 05:24 PM Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Take Over Bird Refuge [Re: Todd]
blackmouth Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 2572
Loc: right place/wrong time
Originally Posted By: Todd
blackmouth will jizz in his pants, and all will be right with the world again.Todd

Sadly, those days are long past.
_________________________
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
Winston Churchill

"So it goes." Kurt Vonnegut jr.

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#948378 - 01/22/16 06:20 PM Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Take Over Bird Refuge [Re: blackmouth]
Illahee Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3771
Being convicted of domestic terrorism doesn't look very good.


https://www.aclu.org/how-usa-patriot-act-redefines-domestic-terrorism

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#948384 - 01/22/16 06:35 PM Re: Armed Domestic Terrorists Take Over Bird Refuge [Re: Illahee]
blackmouth Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 2572
Loc: right place/wrong time
Being found in breach of the Espionage act is no walk in the park.
_________________________
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
Winston Churchill

"So it goes." Kurt Vonnegut jr.

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