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#956293 - 04/27/16 05:19 AM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Chasin' Baitman]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4498
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope



A CCA Flyer.



If you have been following the twists and turns of this year's state-tribal "North of Falcon" Puget Sound salmon fishery negotiations, you know we are in unchartered territory. For the first time in decades, WDFW and the Puget Sound treaty tribes failed to reach an agreement on fishing seasons. Without federal Endangered Species Act (ESA) approval of a joint state-tribal fishery agreement - or separate approval of a stand-alone state plan - there will be a complete closure of all Puget Sound sport fisheries.

We can't let that happen. Please urge your elected representatives and federal agency officials at NOAA Fisheries to take action!

NOAA Fisheries must take immediate action to prevent the complete closure of a $100-plus million Puget Sound sport fishery. It is also time to fix the broken "North of Falcon" season-setting process by restoring transparency, fairness, and common sense to these negotiations - fundamental hallmarks of cooperative management (aka "co-management").

We commend WDFW Director Jim Unsworth and his staff for negotiating in good faith, with conservation as their first priority. Despite the serious challenges posed by reduced Coho and Chinook abundance, WDFW fashioned a plan that fell within conservation guidelines, met ESA requirements, and provided meaningful recreational fishing opportunity. WDFW has been consistent in seeking a balanced, fair agreement. Unfortunately this has been met by uncompromising negotiating tactics from a small handful of tribes - something that has become common in recent North of Falcon negotiations.

The state and tribes are scheduled to meet again this week. We hope an agreement can be reached on a responsible and equitable fishery agreement. If not, NOAA Fisheries should take action on WDFW's balanced, conservation-based fishery proposal, and authorize their fisheries independently of any tribal agreement.

This latest crisis facing our fisheries comes on top of the failure of NOAA Fisheries to provide needed ESA permits to over a hundred salmon and steelhead hatcheries and provide the necessary reviews for the Mitchell Act program that funds 1/3 of all Columbia River hatchery salmon production- putting our fisheries at extreme risk to closure due to litigation from anti-hatchery organizations!

Please weigh in with your elected officials and NOAA Fisheries on behalf of conservation, fairness, and a Puget Sound sport fishing season!


________________________________________
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#956301 - 04/27/16 08:00 AM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Rivrguy]
paguy Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 04/15/11
Posts: 113
Is it just me, Or does anyone else think its time the tribes join the rest of us humans in the 21st century.

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#956304 - 04/27/16 09:44 AM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1529
Loc: Tacoma
Could this end up being the first shot over the bow?

Economic Market Study on Gambling
Underway in Washington State!

http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/publications/press-releases/market-study-awarded.pdf

I am sure that it must have already been planned, but the timing is perfect. I am sure so real interesting data could be gleaned from a study like this.

I think it is telling that the Makah's have been pressured into not whaling. If political will gets strong enough, there is plenty on the table to make the tribes come around.


Edited by Krijack (04/27/16 10:15 AM)

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#956307 - 04/27/16 10:00 AM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
stonefish Offline
King of the Beach

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 5187
Loc: Carkeek Park
The state is leaving a lot of money on the table by not allowing non tribal gaming establishments to offer the same type of gaming.
The state got out of the booze business, which was a good move in my opinion.
They are now heavily into the weed business.
They already offer Lotto.
Why not full blown gaming as well? One group shouldn't have a monopoly on gaming.

Sorry, but sin helps pay the bills regardless of what some church and other organizations say against it.
Cha-Ching!
SF
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Founding Member - 2023 Pink Plague Opposition Party
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#956308 - 04/27/16 10:11 AM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
Cobbly Cruiser Offline
Creepy Cat Guy

Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 168
I probably have no idea what I'm talking about but tribal casino money used for lobbying wouldn't have quite the same affect if state casinos were established.

Brian- I never thought pot would be legal but here we are. Why not privately owned or state casinos?

Danny
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#956318 - 04/27/16 01:45 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3339
On the topic of casino money, just in case ANY of you go to Tribal casinos or buy booze, smokes, etc. on reservations, please cut that $hit out. It's cheap to fly to Vegas. If you must gamble, see that your hard-earned, but so easily lost gambling money won't be used to deny you citizens' rights.

Losing your @$$ at the casino takes on a whole new level of crappy when the money you lose goes to political efforts to undermine your quality of life. We don't have a lot of control over the fish situation, but we definitely have control over where we spend our money. Spend wisely.

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#956319 - 04/27/16 01:48 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
fishbadger Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 1190
Loc: Gig Harbor, WA
+1,

fb
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#956321 - 04/27/16 02:27 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
Elkman Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 245
Loc: Anchorage, AK U.S.A
I don't spend a dime at any casino.

What time was the meeting today???
_________________________
"I'd rather be lucky than good"

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#956322 - 04/27/16 02:42 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: eyeFISH]
cohoangler Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 12/29/99
Posts: 1604
Loc: Vancouver, Washington
Originally Posted By: eyeFISH
Originally Posted By: cohoangler
The Treaties just recognize the right was already there, and would continue in perpetuity. So even if the Treaties were to vanish today (which won’t happen), the Tribal rights to fish in their usual and accustomed places in perpetuity remains.





HMMM... in perpetuity, eh?

That's like a REALLY REALLY REALLY long time, right?


The Tribes would say their fishing rights extend back to "time immemorial" and into the future "in perpetuity".

The frustration on this BB over this issue is understandable. But the Tribes have similar but different frustrations. They see massive development all over the Puget Sound and Oly Pen area. They see important salmon habitat being lost daily to ever encroaching development. Strip malls, housing developments, single family homes, hotels, roads, bridges, farms, condos, flood dikes, etc, etc.

We all see it. But the Tribes don't see "progress". They see habitat destruction, if only through the loss of water needed to support this infrastructure. And they see the State unwilling or unable to slow down or stop the development. They've petitioned the Feds, but the Feds are almost as unwilling and unable to stop it either.

The loss of habitat mirrors the loss of salmon. As one goes, so goes the other. We are arguing over scraps of whatever fish remain in Puget Sound, in part because of poor ocean conditions, but also because salmon habitat is not producing anywhere near what it once did. The Tribes believe that if the State was better able to regulate habitat loss, and habitat were in better shape, we would have alot more than just scraps to fish on. We would have a decent fishery. But we don't.

So who is to blame? I'm not going to point at the Tribes for the loss of salmon habitat, and I'm not going to point at the State for being unable to stop development. Our government (local, State, Federal) is ill equipped to restrict the freedoms that we've all come to expect. We expect to be able to buy land and build a house or a business. We expect to drive to various places on reasonably safe roads. We expect to be able to drink clean water, buy good and services at our local stores, raise a family, and to be fairly safe from natural disasters such as floods. But all these things adversely effect salmon habitat. And the more people we have, the more we compete with the resources that salmon need.

I understand the Tribes concerns but the solutions may not be realistic. But solutions begin with understanding. So if nothing else, perhaps we can all understand the "other guys" point of view.

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#956323 - 04/27/16 03:05 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
stonefish Offline
King of the Beach

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 5187
Loc: Carkeek Park
Thankfully there isn't any development or strip malls on tribal reservations, especially along I-5 north of Marysville.

Looking forward to hearing how the meeting went today.
SF


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#956324 - 04/27/16 03:57 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7592
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
And they have kept their human population at treaty era levels so that they do not increases demand.

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#956325 - 04/27/16 04:28 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
cohoangler Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 12/29/99
Posts: 1604
Loc: Vancouver, Washington
Just to be clear, I'm trying to promote understanding. I'm not an apologist for the Tribes. They can do that for themselves. But if a long-term solution is to be found (past this year, and this issue), a better understanding of both the State and the Tribal views on the issue is a good place to start.

I recommend the following:

http://treatyrightsatrisk.org/

You don't have to swallow all the rhetoric, but you will get a better sense of the Tribes frustration. We should all be as concerned as they are.


Edited by cohoangler (04/27/16 04:31 PM)

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#956326 - 04/27/16 04:36 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7592
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
The Tribes need to be part of the solution that includes restrictions on land use, water use, development, and so on. To act as if the rest of the community needs to make changes while they just keep on keeping on is wrong. We should all be in this together.

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#956327 - 04/27/16 04:46 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
Sky-Guy Offline
The Tide changed

Registered: 08/31/00
Posts: 7083
Loc: Everett
This just out. Advisors meet with the department tomorrow for a follow up:

WDFW, tribes again call off talks on Puget Sound salmon fisheries





OLYMPIA – After additional discussions Wednesday, state and tribal fishery managers did not reach an agreement for this year's Puget Sound salmon-fishing seasons.

The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) and treaty tribes separately will continue to seek federal permits necessary for holding marine and fresh water fisheries in Puget Sound, where some fish stocks are protected under the federal Endangered Species Act.

"We had one last round of negotiations in hopes of ensuring salmon seasons in Puget Sound this year," said Jim Unsworth, director of WDFW. "Regrettably, we could not agree on fisheries that were acceptable to both parties."

The department proposed salmon fisheries that allowed anglers to harvest chinook while protecting coho, which are expected to return in low numbers this year. The state's proposed fisheries met conservation goals that WDFW and the tribes had previously agreed upon, Unsworth said.

State fishery managers are uncertain whether the department will receive the necessary permit in time to hold salmon fisheries in Puget Sound through much of the season.

WDFW and the tribes typically secure a federal permit together for holding Puget Sound salmon fisheries. State and tribal fishery managers did not reach agreement during the annual season-setting process, which concluded in mid-April. Further talks last week were also unsuccessful.

Unsworth said he is hopeful the state and tribes can work together in the future to develop plans to bolster salmon stocks as well as improve the season-setting process.

"We want to work with the tribes to address long-term resource management concerns, such as restoring habitat and increasing hatchery fish production," Unsworth said. "The breakdown in this year's negotiations demonstrates the need for a change to the process of setting salmon-fishing seasons."

Absent an agreement, all non-tribal commercial and recreational Puget Sound salmon fisheries, including Marine Area 13 and year-round fishing piers around Puget Sound, will close May 1 to salmon fishing until further notice.

Any updates on Puget Sound salmon-fishing seasons will be posted to WDFW's webpage at http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/northfalcon/, where summaries of this year's salmon fisheries for the Columbia River, Washington's ocean waters and north coastal rivers can be found.
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You know something bad is going to happen when you hear..."Hey, hold my beer and watch this"

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#956328 - 04/27/16 04:48 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Krijack]
JustBecause Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 07/18/08
Posts: 234
Originally Posted By: Krijack
I think it is telling that the Makah's have been pressured into not whaling. If political will gets strong enough, there is plenty on the table to make the tribes come around.


FYI, the Makah are still pursuing a whaling permit: http://www.westcoast.fisheries.noaa.gov/protected_species/marine_mammals/cetaceans/whale_hunt.html

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#956329 - 04/27/16 05:00 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
stonefish Offline
King of the Beach

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 5187
Loc: Carkeek Park
S-G
As always, appreciate your work and keeping us updated.
SC
_________________________
Go Dawgs!
Founding Member - 2023 Pink Plague Opposition Party
#coholivesmatter

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#956330 - 04/27/16 05:05 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
Chasin' Baitman Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 08/15/12
Posts: 247
Sky-guy - thanks for the update. Kind of bummed nothing could be worked out, but it might be best to navigate the uncharted waters in the hopes of getting to a better place.

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#956331 - 04/27/16 05:06 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7592
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
This also means that the NI Commercials get no fishery for Fraser sockeye? Just the Tribes might get approval??

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#956332 - 04/27/16 05:38 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: Sky-Guy]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3339
All the WA stakeholders would be allowed to fish this year were it not for the majority of all impacts being allocated to ocean fisheries...

...and the habitat is what we're focused on?

This same habitat produced huge returns of coho and solid runs of chinook in 2014. It ain't what it was (and won't ever be again), but if we quit perennially overharvesting whatever is out there each year, even the existing habitat can sustain good runs. It's proven that.

Not saying we shouldn't try to improve it, however....

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#956334 - 04/27/16 06:06 PM Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update [Re: ]
OLD FB Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 195
Loc: Stanwood WA
Originally Posted By: Banned User
Maybe Trump can build a wall around the reservations while he's at that whole wall building thing...........


You know I kinda' like this idea wink I posted a similar idea about building a Trump like wall to prevent WA state fish fleeing to the Northern Pacific waters to hang out for awhile waiting their return to their home waters but never got a response... Silly me crazy Looked at California regs tonight and not much mayhem or finger pointing going on down there! Saved a link I'll try and share here soon! Season on down there and their numbers are a bit off last year but still 2 a day Chinook in the ocean> Imagine that!

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