#957169 - 05/10/16 08:58 AM
Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 1249
Loc: WaRshington
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I sincerely hope that after all is said and done DFW doesn't end up accepting a bad deal anyway just to "save the day". That's really what this feels like...
_________________________
When I grow up I want to be,
One of the harvesters of the sea.
I think before my days are done,
I want to be a fisherman.
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#957172 - 05/10/16 09:14 AM
Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update
[Re: GodLovesUgly]
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Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
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Well, hope springs eternal. I would rather the season be lost and the process be fixed than WDFW just cave. That said, compromise is not a dirty word, and it's possible that the impasse this year could provide some political capital toward changing the system even if we end up getting a deal done for this year. I sincerely hope that after all is said and done DFW doesn't end up accepting a bad deal anyway just to "save the day". That's really what this feels like... I am loaded with equal parts of these sentiments right now. Fish on... Todd
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 Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle
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#957178 - 05/10/16 09:54 AM
Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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The Tide changed
Registered: 08/31/00
Posts: 7083
Loc: Everett
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If there was an ounce of transparency to this process, I might have an update for you.
_________________________
You know something bad is going to happen when you hear..."Hey, hold my beer and watch this"
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#957179 - 05/10/16 11:44 AM
Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update
[Re: MPM]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 1249
Loc: WaRshington
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I would rather the season be lost and the process be fixed than WDFW just cave. 100%
_________________________
When I grow up I want to be,
One of the harvesters of the sea.
I think before my days are done,
I want to be a fisherman.
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#957203 - 05/10/16 05:13 PM
Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 05/31/08
Posts: 257
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If there was an ounce of transparency to this process, I might have an update for you. So do you know if they were really meeting or not at least?
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#957208 - 05/10/16 06:16 PM
Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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Poon it! Poon it! Poon it!
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1714
Loc: Yarrow Point
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They are definitely meeting http://nwsportsmanmag.com/editors-blog/an-optimistic-turn-in-puget-sound-salmon-impasse/I too think our long term prospects (as well as the fish) might benefit from an impasse this year.
_________________________
The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope. -John Buchan
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#957223 - 05/11/16 07:18 AM
Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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Smolt
Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 92
Loc: Renton
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I think we compromised by giving up area 10 last year. This year would make two In a row. JG is a 100% right about what we can count on in the future.
All this talk of compromise has our permit application sitting idle while they see what happens.
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#957224 - 05/11/16 07:47 AM
Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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Eyed Egg
Registered: 05/10/16
Posts: 8
Loc: Monroe, WA
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New poster here, thanks for all you have educated me on the past several years. I sent my support to the director. Although I'd love to fish this year, I'd rather see us become independent of the tribes ESA permits.
Hope it helps to hear from common folk
"Director Unsworth, I heard a news report yesterday that the department and tribes were close on a settlement regarding PS salmon fishing. I fully support your previous position and standing fast for the non-tribal interests. I urge you to not give away the farm during these negotiations, even if it means putting a hold on fishing for the season. No one person or group in our society should hold all the cards, unfortunately a good majority of the deck seems to be given away in the treaty's of the 1850's. Unfortunately Governor Stevens didn't seem to fully understand what he was giving away or fore sight to see the rapid depletion of fish from over harvest and waste (started by non-tribal in the late 1800's and continues to this day by both sides.) All anyone at the time could see was fish forever, unfortunately we did not learn from the decimation of the buffalo herds or many others that was taking place during the time. I'm sure that what we have today as co-managers is not what was intended by the authors of the treaties. I fully support your stance in this matter and hope that you continue to stand your ground and let the tribes know that they need to give as much as they take.
Regardless of the outcome of this current stalemate (I use that term loosely as the tribes do not seem to be affected much at all, and seem to have been well prepared for this situation), I hope that you continue to pursue our own permits/authorization from NOAA so that we are independent of the tribes and are not reliant on piggybacking on their permits as co-managers. Surely everyone agrees that NOF process is broken and we should never allow ourselves to be in this situation again.
When NOAA is evaluating NT fishing they should be made well aware that sport fishers are required to go to great lengths to avoid lethal impacts on ESA fish through run timing, barb-less hooks , non removal from water and selective gear rules and commercial fishers impacts are limited through gear rules, run timing, and recovery boxes. NT fishers are closely monitored by on board monitors on the commercial side and enforcement officers (as well as fellow sport fishers) on the rec side.
In contrast tribal fishers use gill nets that kill everything, wild and hatchery, for most of their commercial fishing and their "sports fishers" regularly use weighted treble hooks. The enforcement is self reporting with very little monitoring. Both sides should have the ability to closely monitor each other if we are ever going to be able to co-manage the resource.
Thanks for considering my thoughts,"
Edited by Protographer (05/11/16 07:57 AM)
_________________________
Melanoma sucks, Be sun safe.
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#957226 - 05/11/16 08:12 AM
Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update
[Re: luckydogss]
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Spawner
Registered: 12/09/08
Posts: 764
Loc: Seattle, WA
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IAll this talk of compromise has our permit application sitting idle while they see what happens. What makes you think that?
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#957227 - 05/11/16 08:56 AM
Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update
[Re: Protographer]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 02/23/08
Posts: 171
Loc: Pierce county
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New poster here, thanks for all you have educated me on the past several years. I sent my support to the director. Although I'd love to fish this year, I'd rather see us become independent of the tribes ESA permits.
Hope it helps to hear from common folk
"Director Unsworth, I heard a news report yesterday that the department and tribes were close on a settlement regarding PS salmon fishing. I fully support your previous position and standing fast for the non-tribal interests. I urge you to not give away the farm during these negotiations, even if it means putting a hold on fishing for the season. No one person or group in our society should hold all the cards, unfortunately a good majority of the deck seems to be given away in the treaty's of the 1850's. Unfortunately Governor Stevens didn't seem to fully understand what he was giving away or fore sight to see the rapid depletion of fish from over harvest and waste (started by non-tribal in the late 1800's and continues to this day by both sides.) All anyone at the time could see was fish forever, unfortunately we did not learn from the decimation of the buffalo herds or many others that was taking place during the time. I'm sure that what we have today as co-managers is not what was intended by the authors of the treaties. I fully support your stance in this matter and hope that you continue to stand your ground and let the tribes know that they need to give as much as they take.
Regardless of the outcome of this current stalemate (I use that term loosely as the tribes do not seem to be affected much at all, and seem to have been well prepared for this situation), I hope that you continue to pursue our own permits/authorization from NOAA so that we are independent of the tribes and are not reliant on piggybacking on their permits as co-managers. Surely everyone agrees that NOF process is broken and we should never allow ourselves to be in this situation again.
When NOAA is evaluating NT fishing they should be made well aware that sport fishers are required to go to great lengths to avoid lethal impacts on ESA fish through run timing, barb-less hooks , non removal from water and selective gear rules and commercial fishers impacts are limited through gear rules, run timing, and recovery boxes. NT fishers are closely monitored by on board monitors on the commercial side and enforcement officers (as well as fellow sport fishers) on the rec side.
In contrast tribal fishers use gill nets that kill everything, wild and hatchery, for most of their commercial fishing and their "sports fishers" regularly use weighted treble hooks. The enforcement is self reporting with very little monitoring. Both sides should have the ability to closely monitor each other if we are ever going to be able to co-manage the resource.
Thanks for considering my thoughts," Amen..........
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#957228 - 05/11/16 09:00 AM
Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update
[Re: MPM]
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Smolt
Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 92
Loc: Renton
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I could be totally wrong about the permit application sitting idle while we negotiate but if we compromise, there's no need for our own permit. It would seem logical that effort would be on the back burner while they see what happens.
WDFW said they would "try" to get the application in last week. Did that ever happen? Anybody know what the status is?
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#957237 - 05/11/16 11:41 AM
Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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Lord of the Chums
Registered: 03/29/14
Posts: 6768
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If there was an ounce of transparency to this process, I might have an update for you. this has been bugging me since you posted it, at first it was because i didnt really understand what you were saying.... now i kinda understand, and its BS... this is from an article recently posted by the PI... "At the meeting state fishery managers offered an alternative proposal for sport fisheries with a 50 percent harvest cut on an expected poor Puyallup River return of 353 wild chinook and 3,708 hatchery fish. The state cuts included a Carbon River sport fishery closure of two months during peak chinook arrival time; closing salmon fishing in south-central Puget Sound – known as Marine Catch Area 11 in the Tacoma area – from November through January; and a Commencement Bay closure. These reductions come on top of those already made for an expected poor Puget Sound wild coho return. A few days before the meeting, the tribes issued two additional packages the state needed to agree on in order to come to terms. Each included a much larger cut to the sport fishing package. One tribal proposal called for a total sport fishing closure in the Puyallup and Carbon rivers; close the entire salmon season in south-central Puget Sound; close the hatchery-marked selective fishery in central Puget Sound from mid-July to mid-August; and a hatchery chinook catch quota reduction in northern Puget Sound from 3,260 to 2,500. The tribes offered to reduce their netting time on the Puyallup to just six hours of fishing, which is similar to recent years." now heres what im talking about... "low return" is BS, the wild fish are right around what they usually are i think, maybe a few more fish, but the hatchery returns are fairly HIGHER than previous years (yes i know its an estimate that could swing lower, or even higher)... all numbers are taken from Dec 31st as to make sure all Kings returned to Voights: 2015 : 2884 Adults, 1009 Jacks 2014: 2659 Adults, 65 Jacks 2013: 1571 Adults, 26 Jacks 2012: 966 Adults, 147 Jacks 2011: 2320 Adults, 51 Jacks 2010: 2359 Adults, N/A Jacks 2009: 3042 Adults, 18 Jacks 2008: 3096 Adults, 44 Jacks 2007: 4464 Adults, 135 Jacks 2006: 4629 Adults, 605 Jacks as you can see, with the exception of 06 and 07, this years run of Kings is expected to be greater than any of the last 10 years... so how is that "low numbers"... they did the same sh!t last year when they said there was "no Coho", yet Voights got back 6100+ fish, year before, 6500... basically what im sucking up from this, and thinking what you meant SG, is that they want the fish, and thats that.... they will make up bullsh!t statements that can be proven wrong historically as they are marked on the WDFW site, all while practicing what they always have for the last god knows how many years.... GREED..... http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/posit...rticle_left_1.1
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BLM IS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION ANTIFA IS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION 
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#957243 - 05/11/16 12:44 PM
Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update
[Re: 5 * General Evo]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 1249
Loc: WaRshington
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basically what im sucking up from this, and thinking what you meant SG, is that they want the fish, and thats that.... If you are just now realizing this. I feel sorry for you. This debate and "imapsse" has never been about the fish. It wasn't in 2015 when the Muk's demanded A10 closed, and only 2k fish harvested in 9..... and it wasn't back in the day they demanded the closure of Elliott Bay, and (surprise surprise) it still IS NOT about conservation, or even the existing fish models. It's about wanting it ALL for THEMSELVES. You're correct, it's greed. I fail to see how an argument could be made to close A11 Blackmouth fishing.... the tribes have HATED our blackmouth fishery, immemorial. Because THEY can't kill those fish in their nets. Maybe if the learned how to actually fvcking fish they wouldn't be so butthurt.
_________________________
When I grow up I want to be,
One of the harvesters of the sea.
I think before my days are done,
I want to be a fisherman.
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Top
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#957246 - 05/11/16 01:00 PM
Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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Lord of the Chums
Registered: 03/29/14
Posts: 6768
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i kinda wanted to give the benefit of doubt, but now i see i was just blinding myself with an illusion that i already knew the answer to....
if they wanted to protect the Wild Chinook, they wouldnt have their nets in the river during the meat of the run.....
but they will, because they dont care about the numbers, the only number they care about is the abundance (considering the last 10 years), of HATCHERY fish that i and you all paid for by buying your licenses....
if they close the Carbon and Puy to sport fishing during the time that the Kings come in, they wont stop netting, and even at 6 hours per day (like they are doing some god sent favor), they will rake every available fish out of that river system just like they always do.....
_________________________
BLM IS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION ANTIFA IS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION
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#957248 - 05/11/16 01:12 PM
Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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King of the Beach
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 5189
Loc: Carkeek Park
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The last minute add ons by the tribes is what pisses me off about this whole process.
They want the state to bargain in good faith yet applied for their permit early and now add more restrictions on recreation anglers.
I'd rather have the state tell them to pound sand then accept a [Bleeeeep!] agreement.
SF
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Go Dawgs!
Founding Member - 2023 Pink Plague Opposition Party
#coholivesmatter
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#957250 - 05/11/16 01:18 PM
Re: North of Falcon/PMFC update
[Re: stonefish]
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Spawner
Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 561
Loc: around
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The last minute add ons by the tribes is what pisses me off about this whole process.
They want the state to bargain in good faith yet applied for their permit early and now add more restrictions on recreation anglers.
I'd rather have the state tell them to pound sand then accept a [Bleeeeep!] agreement.
SF +1
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