The tribes were prepared to fish NO MATTER WHAT the fish did last year, which is exactly what they did. If the "fish came marching in" as it were in 2016, then why are so many of the 2016 redd count/escapement numbers so low or even at critical? They're going to fish no matter what shows up....

Summer comes, nets go out, fish are sold, repeat.

There certainly was no proactive approach last year, at least in regards to saltwater.
Opening up only MA 13 for coho well past prime time isn't what anyboby would classify as quality opportunity.

I still don't get the wild coho retention on the Snohomish system last year as well.
SF

The way most updates work is that you need to do them either where you clearly know the stock (terminal area/bay-river) or invest in genetics or scale reading to separate mixed stocks. With pink there used to be Fraser Panel genetics work that would at least give a heads-up as to what US (read Puget Sound) pinks were doing on the approach routes. It would money and commitment to rapid turn around to get mixed-stock updates for pinks.

Pinks are probably not worth the effort in WDFW's mind. Heck, since they don't many (if any) updates anymore maybe noe of it is worth the effort.

SF
Snohomish system usually has a higher ratio of wild to hatchery Coho. Some ask why there is even hatchery coho released there. This year for example the forecast is 107,000 wild to 9,500 hatchery.

According to LOAF there was zero, zip, nada, proactive agreements for the state in the salt water areas I fish which is the reason for the push this year.

Are the pinks which stage in "Humpy Hollow" truly mixed Snohomish/Stilly/Skagit fish? Or do the Stilly/Skagit fish stage closer to their home rivers? If the latter could there be a recreational fishery along the eastern shore between Edmonds and Mukilteo? Trying to think somewhat outside the current MA configurations; just not sure if LE/WDFW would think it worth their effort to manage.

I don't know but it is not just staging but pass-through. It could/should be answered by tagging studies or possibly genetic studies. WDF did a lot way back that could be consulted if there is nothing more recent.

Besides, with Skagit and Stilly so low why take any when you can get the Snoho fish in the Snoho? Why put additional unnecessary pressure on depressed stocks when better alternatives (stock-wise) exist?

To use the economic argument would probably say that taking WA Chinook and coho in BC and AK is economically a better idea because more money is spent per fish. Gotta maximize the economic return.

Pass-throughs? That is the other side of my questions. Do the Stilly and Skagit bound fish co-mingle with Snohomish fish in "Humpy Hollow" or do they come around Possession and head due north along Whidbey's shoreline to stage in front of their rivers of origin thereby naturally separating themselves from Shohomish fish?

As to why not simply target Snohomish fish in the rivers? Well, I am not quite as cynical about value of fisheries as a motivator but will say that my salt water boat got out twice last summer - both times for shrimp. Are humpies my fish of choice? Certainly not. But with the way things are going one tries to find meaningful opportunities/justifications to get out on the salt.

Oh, and the personal longevity clock is ticking louder and louder as the years fly by.

I agree with you.
They'll claim it is lack of manpower and some folks will defend them.
Look at the current MA 9 chinook guidelines currently posted on their website.
March 19th was the last update. It is now the 27th, so I always wonder how accurate those things are, both for catches and encounters.
It seems it takes a lot of time to get this type of info out, but very little time to close things down.
Being proactive to open fisheries up should more fish show up then forecast just doesn't seem to be WDFW's mode of operation.
SF

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3244474/2016-2017-Fishing-Agreement.pdf

The tribes were prepared to fish alright, did you see how many ISU’s from the straits throughout Puget Sound they had for Coho? The state must have agreed with the findings--- sport fishing opened.

UM, anyone ever fish kayak pt? Also, which system's fish flow through Deception Pass and head inland. For many years, lines of people beach fishing pinks on their way to Skagit and Stilly. There are two ways into 8-1!!

yep, two ways in... in addition to beach caught pinks at deception pass, there are also some nice coho's to be found if you know where to look




Imagine the irony of shutting down area 9 not because of fake low returns of coho and chinook but because of fake low returns of Pinks...

Your question, Larry, is where data is damn necessary.

Conventional wisdom and catch accounting is/was that 9 was composed of Stilly/Snoh, SSound, and Hood Canal. For pinks, Skagit was added to the mix. Once fish got into 8A it was supposed to be all Stilly/Snoh but there is a voice in the back of my head that says Skagit fish were there too and went up the east side of Widbey; all based on tagging.

The big "but", though, is that tagging showed a lot more mixing. For example, Hood Canal fish were found in commercial 10E, the East Kitsap shorelines and inlets rather than pure local fish like run-reconstruction says.

Pinks, by nature, have to stray a lot because that fixed 2-year life cycle would leave lots of streams empty.......

I understand the idea that one likes to out in the salt in their boat and they aren't getting any younger. That is a legitimate concern. Does it trump short-term conservation? I don't know but that is a discussion worth having.

Back in my WDF days we had fixed escapement goals that were, until co-mamnagement, inviolate. That was why, for example, Lake WA sockeye fisheries occurred only when more than 350K returned. The IPSFC, on the other hand, managed Fraser sockeye on more flexible scale. For most stocks, there would be a fishery. At least the most abundant stock that cycle, even if it was below the target optimum goal. They believed that having some annual fishing kept the industry alive. Also meant that rebuilding would take longer. Trade-offs either way.

Carcassman, that was very well put, and easy to understand. Ever thought about becoming a therapist for displaced fisherman? I would imagine some would get more from you than they would from buying a fishin lic.!!!

Interesting history. WDF was funded by GF and had a significantly stronger "conservation ethic" than WDG (license funded). Often, the WDG Director told us we needed to find ways to sell more licenses. It was a product produced for those paying the freight.

Unfortunately, there isn't one right answer. If we don't use the resource, we don't need as many of them. Take LW sockeye. The average urbanite will get positively orgasmic over 100K sockeye at the locks. Wow! In Downtown Seattle. But, to have meaningful fisheries we need lots more. Same with game animals, game birds, etc. Consumptive use requires large numbers AND habitat in big chunks. Society just may not want to do that any more. Rather breed and raise more kids.

I’d be surprised if a US pink fishery on “Canadian” fish did not occur.

They certainly would have a perfect alibi to fill their hulls with mixed PS pinks by using behind closed door rationale who else this year can keep these fish from being wasted, while being able to point at a prior event as an excuse on why the fish didn’t return.

Dear fish managers,

Pink fishing at Humpy Hollow Area 8-2 in Puget Sound is one of the most anticipated and well attended salmon sport fishery in Puget Sound on odd years.

It does appear that because of certain low abundance mixed with others that not only 8-2 is on the chopping block this year but looking at the past 2015 LOAF there are numerous sport and commercial fisheries throughout the straits and San Juan’s that should be in the same boat.

If any of these fisheries open for some reason this year, then humpy hollow wants some of that home cooking. If it takes more tools than available right now --then they are needed. This is a money maker not only for the local economy, but the department in license sales.

Let’s not write off 8-2 Humpy Hollow if possible, by adding this fishery to the stack of other closures in this area of Puget Sound.

Lucky-
Looking at both the pink and coho forecasts for the Stillaguamish and Skagit it would seem that there is little chance for a season in 8-2. There might be an outside chance for a pink season in MA 9 but I would not bet on it.

The Snohomish pink and coho forecasts are such that in-river seasons for both pinks and coho would seem possible. Don't know if that would fit for you to get the grandkids out. The lower river fishery on the in coming tide has the potential for some good fishing.

Curt

Thanks Curt, I’ve heard some staff is cautiously upbeat on that possibility,

Humpy hollow reminds me of being a microcosm of the Straits and San Juan’s, where the same fish as Humpy hollow would be caught while targeting Fraser River fish.

I’m as thrilled as sport and commercials in the Straits and San Juan’s being notified that all Canadian stocks will only be caught in the Fraser this year.

Whether that happens, remains to be seen.

If there is a US fishery on Fraser pinks it would be scheduled to target them. Because of timing differences (WA is a tad earlier) and differences in stock composition in areas I suspect that the fishery would be concentrated in 7 and 7A. Even with that, it might be more constrained for sockeye conservation concerns. Early rumors I heard was that the sockeye are not in great shape either.

There seems to a trend here in local stock "health".