#1060688 - 10/20/22 12:39 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: seabeckraised]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4434
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
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Guys the closure was about Chinook spawning low due to flows and release mortalities. All that said it was centered the optics of combat fishing with bankies and boats working the holding areas.
Now let us get this conservation thing correct. This year it was estimated Grays Harbor Chinook harvest is AK 11,617 BC 4637 for 16,250 taken and the Grays harbor Chinook escapement goal is 13,326. This left a total Chehalis terminal runsize of 14,957 with QIN taking 3,566 Chehalis tribal 257 and Rec bay and inriver 567 with C&R. Always remember only WDFW separate Humptulips and the Chehalis for all other entities it is all combined Grays Harbor.
Conservation is always a real thing with the vast majority of Rec fishers but some not so much. Things could have been done differently but WDFW chose to do it this way. All that said there are no conservations concerns for GH Chinook when one grasps that the ocean managers fed and state allowed over half of the run to be harvested in the ocean.
For years I have been told by staff that oh they cannot do anything about the ocean fisheries. What happens year after year is the terminal fishers fish on what remains of the Chinook run after being butchered by AK & BC. I do not recall a WDFW staffer or Director or the Commission or the Governor or state legislators or our federal Senators or Representatives in congress speak out in an effort to stop this. What I hear is habitat habitat which by definition of results would mean more ocean harvest with the SAME terminal runs.
So what you end up with is the inriver with the least impacts is expected to take the brunt of conservation as viewed by Region 6. Now if your fine with that it is OK as everyone is entitled to their own views. For myself not so much and as far as I am concerned it is money and political power enabling this harvest that is concealed by the words conservation and habitat. Boiled down this is pure 100% grade A BS and hypocrisy. Conservation my ass!
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#1060690 - 10/20/22 01:02 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: jgreen]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1376
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I’m starting to think most of the people working for the department spent most of their younger life in a classroom learning about fisheries rather than spending time on the river. A bunch of overpaid paper pushers have less idea what is going on in the river than the average fisherman. That’s just sad. Likely had some of their student loans paid off by most of you (well, $10,000 of it) just be piss poor at their “job”.
Most definitely! It's been that way ever since the WDG and WDF merged in 1994. Everything has gone down hill since. A large group of WDG guys fished and hunted and therefor had a vested interest in it. Most either retired or left after the merger. Today far less are directly involved and sorry to say, what we have is what you get. By the way. Thanks for the meeting reminder for tonight.
Edited by RUNnGUN (10/20/22 01:03 PM)
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"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller. Don't let the old man in!
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#1060691 - 10/20/22 01:07 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: Carcassman]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3313
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GH Chinook are not ESA-listed. While some would say that QIN and WDFW are working hard at getting them listed, they aren't. Yet. Oops. Must have had my Puget Sound hat on there. SO: Not ESA listed, but nonetheless, the stock that limits our fisheries on the Chehalis side. Does that sound more correct?
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#1060692 - 10/20/22 01:32 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: FleaFlickr02]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4434
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
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Yes /No A bit back we failed to make Chehalis escapement 3 out of 5 years so the GHMP limited NT (all) impacts to 5% of the runsize terminal. Now the reason was more AK and BC harvest than terminal QIN or NT.
This year it was simply that after the ocean harvest the NT terminal share of harvestable Chinook was not enough to allow harvest. In other words we would blow escapement if we retained Chinook and take us off the water for Coho. The Rec fisher bay and fresh water is capable of taking a rather substantial number of Chinook if allowed to do so, really fast!
Just for conversation say the AK BC harvest had been reduced 20% that would put 3250 more Chinook across the bar. Right there you have a season.
Little edit: The numbers do not include draggers and other things by catch which is also substantial. Cheap fish and chips / fish burgers are not so cheap.
Edited by Rivrguy (10/20/22 01:42 PM)
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#1060694 - 10/20/22 01:51 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: jgreen]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 229
Loc: Vashon/Grayland
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Hey now, I live on Vashon/Grayland and most of my buddies eat venison.
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#1060695 - 10/20/22 01:51 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: Rivrguy]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3313
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Yes /No A bit back we failed to make Chehalis escapement 3 out of 5 years so the GHMP limited NT (all) impacts to 5% of the runsize terminal. Now the reason was more AK and BC harvest than terminal QIN or NT.
This year it was simply that after the ocean harvest the NT terminal share of harvestable Chinook was not enough to allow harvest. In other words we would blow escapement if we retained Chinook and take us off the water for Coho. The Rec fisher bay and fresh water is capable of taking a rather substantial number of Chinook if allowed to do so, really fast!
Just for conversation say the AK BC harvest had been reduced 20% that would put 3250 more Chinook across the bar. Right there you have a season.
Little edit: The numbers do not include draggers and other things by catch which is also substantial. Cheap fish and chips / fish burgers are not so cheap. That's right. The dreaded "Penalty Box." Been a while. No doubt, the ocean is where the action is on kings. I have no problem with that, as long as they don't harvest into escapement then kick me off the river. That's especially cruel....
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#1060698 - 10/20/22 03:18 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: eyeFISH]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7519
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Regardless of how many fish one kills, that fish won't spawn. If, as is normally the case, the harvestable surplus is taken certainly outside the tributaries if not outside the river then those dead fish eat into the escapement goal. It's a numbers game.
Certainly nets can and generally do take more fish in a day than any one angler does. Look how fast the Lake WA sockeye anglers take fish out whenever there is a fishery. A fishery that was historically inefficient enough to last months now (when open) lasts days.
Volume-wise, the problem for WA Chinook is AK and BC; no argument there. But WA anglers can and do remove enough fish to impact escapement. Dead fish don't spawn.
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#1060700 - 10/20/22 03:49 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: seabeckraised]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3313
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FF, Posting those numbers was more to show that fish are moving, I probably should have specified this. That, along with Mr. Scharpf’s comments lead me to believe at some point *hopefully soon*, the Department will be satisfied by river conditions allowing fish (Chinook) passage, and a re-opening of the tribs. This might even require crafting rules such as a bait ban which I would be all for, or getting creative in other ways to mitigate impacts on Chinook.
All I’m saying is I DO have a little faith that the department will find a way to provide tributary opportunity for Coho prior to Demeber 1st. I may be naive in this, and will gladly swallow my words if incorrect, as anyone should. Man, do I hope you're right, but it's going to take more than water to make enough kings magically appear to meet escapement, and I think that's the only way this thing can be opened. It's far from unprecedented that we seem to have overharvested kings, but this is the first time the tribs have been outright closed to protect them that I can recall.....
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#1060722 - 10/21/22 10:57 AM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: jgreen]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3313
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Remember the email I got back from Mike Scharpf? The one where he said they can’t/won’t use weather or flow forecasts to reopen rivers? Well, the state just opened up the dungeness and Wallace river.
Under reason for action: With forecasted rain and increasing flows predicted and most of the Chinook salmon spawning complete in the Wallace River conditions are improved for allowing fishing to resume in Wallace River.
So which is it? It’s like they think we are stupid and won’t notice.
The amount of superiority complex at work at the WDFW is staggering. They act like they don’t HAVE to answer for their decisions. They are public SERVANTS and in such are subservient to the people of Washington. If we ask for a number, give us the number..not some BS “we don’t know” or “we assume”, if that’s the case…manage to keep it open, not closed. The key phrase in their justification is that the Chinook are thought to be done spawning. It was never about flow; it was always about Chinook, specifically numbers of spawners observed in tribs. Given that the Chinook in the Dungeness are endangered, I question the wisdom, but hey, I'm glad someone gets to fish. I'm encouraged to hear that Scharpf left the door open for an opening; that's encouraging, but for all the reasons you mentioned (plus the fact the Chinook probably won't be there in sufficient numbers when they DO get a chance to do a survey), I have serious doubts. But hey, more positive than I felt yesterday....
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#1060723 - 10/21/22 11:01 AM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: jgreen]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4434
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
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The NT Commercial numbers are up for the last two day set Chinook Actual 1 Modeled 68 Coho Actual 282 Modeled 1710 Chum Actual 337 Modeled 1462. Keep in mind that many of the fish modeled are already up.
Fishing this morning water temp 57.6 and clear, like really clear! Not much as to numbers of fish showing. It was slow enough that I can say I lost a jumper as an highlight! Oh almost forgot, the lock jaw bit is still on as a couple followed the spinner to he boat.
So how is fishing ? The word ugly comes to mind.
Edited by Rivrguy (10/21/22 12:07 PM)
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