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#984402 - 01/28/18 12:42 AM Re: Commissions Turn to Prove Support for Transparency [Re: Bay wolf]
slabhunter Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 3739
Loc: Sheltona Beach
email sent. thumbs
_________________________
When we are forgotten, we cease to exist .
Share your outdoor skills.

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#984645 - 01/31/18 10:13 AM Re: Commissions Turn to Prove Support for Transparency [Re: Bay wolf]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1057
Loc: Graham, WA
We ask ALL those supporting transparency to please share this so we might reach all the stakeholders we possibly can.

The DFW Commission Conference call about the North of Falcon policy conversion to a WAC is fast approaching!

On 2 Feb at 8:30 A.M. the Board will discuss our request to convert the advisory only policy to a rule.

We NEED to have them VOTE YES on this!

If you have not yet sent a message to the Commission urging them to VOTE YES, please DO IT NOW.

Click on this link and tell the Board members you want them to VOTE YES and start the conversion immediately. Time is running out!

Contact the WDFW Commission

Sample message:
Commissioners, We have seen example after example of a "culture of secrecy" within the Department. Now is the time for you to begin to correct this issue which is damaging to public confidence and trust in WDFW. I strongly encourage you to VOTE YES on the petition to convert the North of Falcon policy to a Rule. This is a very important first step for the Commission to repair the damage done to public trust.
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#984707 - 02/01/18 02:06 PM Re: Commissions Turn to Prove Support for Transparency [Re: Bay wolf]
slabhunter Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 3739
Loc: Sheltona Beach
It is written in the purpose section of the Grays Harbor (C-3621)
policy.

Quote:
Enhanced transparency and information sharing are
needed to restore and maintain public trust and support for management of Grays
Harbor salmon fisheries.
_________________________
When we are forgotten, we cease to exist .
Share your outdoor skills.

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#984709 - 02/01/18 02:57 PM Re: Commissions Turn to Prove Support for Transparency [Re: slabhunter]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1057
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: slabhunter
It is written in the purpose section of the Grays Harbor (C-3621)
policy.

Quote:
Enhanced transparency and information sharing are
needed to restore and maintain public trust and support for management of Grays
Harbor salmon fisheries.


Unfortunately a policy is advisory in nature and does not need to be adhered to. A WAC is a rule, and has to be followed. Tomorrow the Commission will have its conference call to discuss the conversion. If you have not already done so, please get a message off to the board and urge them to vote YES!


Edited by Bay wolf (02/01/18 07:20 PM)
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#984725 - 02/01/18 05:40 PM Re: Commissions Turn to Prove Support for Transparency [Re: Bay wolf]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13445
Sent another email. They're gonna' get tired of hearing from me.

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#984727 - 02/01/18 05:52 PM Re: Commissions Turn to Prove Support for Transparency [Re: Salmo g.]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1057
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: Salmo g.
Sent another email. They're gonna' get tired of hearing from me.

Thanks Salmo! Every message is another shout telling them to “do the right thing!” Thank you very much.


Edited by Bay wolf (02/01/18 05:53 PM)
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#984745 - 02/02/18 08:17 AM Re: Commissions Turn to Prove Support for Transparency [Re: Bay wolf]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1057
Loc: Graham, WA
In a very short time we should have some indication on where the Commission is on transparency. They said they support open, fair and transparent fisheries management, now it's time for action. From this point forward the Commissioners will show us if they truly believe secrets in fishery's is wrong!
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#985101 - 02/07/18 08:37 PM Re: Commissions Turn to Prove Support for Transparency [Re: Bay wolf]
muley77 Offline
Fry

Registered: 09/28/11
Posts: 23
Loc: Snoho
Not sure if this goes with this thread..... Here is the response that I received from Senior Assistant Attorney General Joseph Shorin


Thank you for your message to Attorney General Bob Ferguson relating to the development of the Puget Sound Chinook Harvest Management Plan. Your message expresses concern that the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW), with legal assistance from the Attorney General’s Office, developed the plan out of the public’s view.

Washington State has a history of strong open government, as evidenced by enactment of the Open Public Meetings Act (OPMA), RCW 42.30, and the Public Records Act, RCW 42.56. As applies to WDFW, the OPMA applies to meetings of the multi-member Fish and Wildlife Commission, and requires their meetings to be open to the public, except for narrow circumstances specified in the law. The OPMA does not require meetings held by the director or his staff be held in public. The Public Records Act, in contrast, applies equally to the Director and the Fish and Wildlife Commission. That law generally requires that public records be made available for inspection and copying. However, there are exceptions to the requirement for disclosure of public records as well. Records of communications during a court-monitored mediation are expressly exempted from disclosure pursuant to RCW 42.56.600.

WDFW’s director and staff and the tribes developed the Puget Sound Chinook Harvest Management Plan under the administration of a federal-court administered mediation as part of the court’s continuing jurisdiction in the ongoing U.S. v. Washington litigation. Under federal court Local Rule 39.1(A)(6), mediations are confidential unless otherwise required by law or agreed by the litigants. So in this case, while Washington State law, through provisions such as the Open Public Meetings Act and the Public Records Act, expresses a general public policy of open government, no law prohibited development of the Plan in a closed door setting, and there was no general agreement among the tribal and state co-managers to develop the plan in a public setting. Nonetheless, the co-managers did agree, and the court ordered, that only those documents that a party affirmatively marks as confidential will be treated as confidential, and that they do not intend to treat as confidential communications to or from the National Marine Fisheries Service, which will be considering the proposed plan as part of its permitting process under the federal Endangered Species Act.

As you note in your message, the mission of the Attorney General’s Office is to provide excellent, independent, and ethical legal services to the State of Washington and protect the rights of its people. An important component of our execution on that mission is to provide individual public officials and state agencies options based legal advice, while being mindful that the Attorney General’s Office, led by a statewide elected public official, serves the broader public interest of all the citizens. The Attorney General’s Office does not set fisheries policy for the State, nor determine how those policies will be developed. We counsel our clients on how they may lawfully pursue their objectives and the legal implications of various choices. Sometimes, as here, those choices are complicated by ongoing processes with a legal dimension, such as the court-directed mediation governing the development of the Plan.

I am very familiar with the legal support that this office provided to WDFW staff and the Fish and Wildlife Commission in relation to development of the Plan. I have full confidence that it represented the highest degree of excellence, independence and ethical conduct, and recognition of the public interest in open government, that are the hallmark of the work of Attorney General’s Office.

Sincerely,

Joseph Shorin
Senior Assistant Attorney General
Chief, Fish, Wildlife and Parks Division
1125 Washington Street SE
P.O. Box 40100
Olympia, WA 98504-0100
Phone: 360-753-2496
Fax: 360-586-3454
Email: Josephs@atg.wa.govorney General Joseph Shorin.

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#985102 - 02/07/18 08:38 PM Re: Commissions Turn to Prove Support for Transparency [Re: Bay wolf]
muley77 Offline
Fry

Registered: 09/28/11
Posts: 23
Loc: Snoho
I'm still waiting on a response from The Gov's office

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#985123 - 02/08/18 10:13 AM Re: Commissions Turn to Prove Support for Transparency [Re: muley77]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1057
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: muley77
Not sure if this goes with this thread..... Here is the response that I received from Senior Assistant Attorney General Joseph Shorin


Thank you for your message to Attorney General Bob Ferguson relating to the development of the Puget Sound Chinook Harvest Management Plan. Your message expresses concern that the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW), with legal assistance from the Attorney General’s Office, developed the plan out of the public’s view.

Washington State has a history of strong open government, as evidenced by enactment of the Open Public Meetings Act (OPMA), RCW 42.30, and the Public Records Act, RCW 42.56. As applies to WDFW, the OPMA applies to meetings of the multi-member Fish and Wildlife Commission, and requires their meetings to be open to the public, except for narrow circumstances specified in the law. The OPMA does not require meetings held by the director or his staff be held in public. The Public Records Act, in contrast, applies equally to the Director and the Fish and Wildlife Commission. That law generally requires that public records be made available for inspection and copying. However, there are exceptions to the requirement for disclosure of public records as well. Records of communications during a court-monitored mediation are expressly exempted from disclosure pursuant to RCW 42.56.600.

WDFW’s director and staff and the tribes developed the Puget Sound Chinook Harvest Management Plan under the administration of a federal-court administered mediation as part of the court’s continuing jurisdiction in the ongoing U.S. v. Washington litigation. Under federal court Local Rule 39.1(A)(6), mediations are confidential unless otherwise required by law or agreed by the litigants. So in this case, while Washington State law, through provisions such as the Open Public Meetings Act and the Public Records Act, expresses a general public policy of open government, no law prohibited development of the Plan in a closed door setting, and there was no general agreement among the tribal and state co-managers to develop the plan in a public setting. Nonetheless, the co-managers did agree, and the court ordered, that only those documents that a party affirmatively marks as confidential will be treated as confidential, and that they do not intend to treat as confidential communications to or from the National Marine Fisheries Service, which will be considering the proposed plan as part of its permitting process under the federal Endangered Species Act.

As you note in your message, the mission of the Attorney General’s Office is to provide excellent, independent, and ethical legal services to the State of Washington and protect the rights of its people. An important component of our execution on that mission is to provide individual public officials and state agencies options based legal advice, while being mindful that the Attorney General’s Office, led by a statewide elected public official, serves the broader public interest of all the citizens. The Attorney General’s Office does not set fisheries policy for the State, nor determine how those policies will be developed. We counsel our clients on how they may lawfully pursue their objectives and the legal implications of various choices. Sometimes, as here, those choices are complicated by ongoing processes with a legal dimension, such as the court-directed mediation governing the development of the Plan.

I am very familiar with the legal support that this office provided to WDFW staff and the Fish and Wildlife Commission in relation to development of the Plan. I have full confidence that it represented the highest degree of excellence, independence and ethical conduct, and recognition of the public interest in open government, that are the hallmark of the work of Attorney General’s Office.

Sincerely,

Joseph Shorin
Senior Assistant Attorney General
Chief, Fish, Wildlife and Parks Division
1125 Washington Street SE
P.O. Box 40100
Olympia, WA 98504-0100
Phone: 360-753-2496
Fax: 360-586-3454
Email: Josephs@atg.wa.govorney General Joseph Shorin.


Muley, Excellent! Thank you for posting this. Can you forward your original email that you send to the AG's office along with this reply. I would like to send it to a lawyer who is currently looking into Tribal over reach. Thank you. Here is the email to send to: OpenNOF@Gmail.com

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#985125 - 02/08/18 10:31 AM Re: Commissions Turn to Prove Support for Transparency [Re: Bay wolf]
wsu Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 419
Shorin is wrong about the OPMA. The case WDFW relies on was decided before the commission existed and specifically turned on the fact that WDFW was not governed by a "governing body." At the time, the director governed the department. That's obviously changed, but WDFW and the AG's office keep repeating their position in order to avoid transparency. There are also cases (or at least one) indicating that if the authority to act is delegated by the governing body, the requirements of the OPMA continue to apply and follow that delegation.

So much for open government being a "hallmark of the work of the Attorney General's Office."


Edited by wsu (02/08/18 10:33 AM)

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#985126 - 02/08/18 11:00 AM Re: Commissions Turn to Prove Support for Transparency [Re: Bay wolf]
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4681
Loc: Sequim
Here's the statute on the Commission duties. It would appear that staff and the Director neglected (4) in signing off on the PSCMP.

Also, I wasn't here in the mid-1990s, but my recollection is that the WDF was run by a Director appointed by the Governor. WDG, I think, had a Commission that appointed the Director. The merger and subsequent statutes solidified the authority of the Commission to be the governing body that selects the Director. Generally, when agencies merge, attendant court cases and rulings follow along.



RCW 77.04.055
Commission—Duties.
(1) In establishing policies to preserve, protect, and perpetuate wildlife, fish, and wildlife and fish habitat, the commission shall meet annually with the governor to:
(a) Review and prescribe basic goals and objectives related to those policies; and
(b) Review the performance of the department in implementing fish and wildlife policies.
The commission shall maximize fishing, hunting, and outdoor recreational opportunities compatible with healthy and diverse fish and wildlife populations.
(2) The commission shall establish hunting, trapping, and fishing seasons and prescribe the time, place, manner, and methods that may be used to harvest or enjoy game fish and wildlife.
(3) The commission shall establish provisions regulating food fish and shellfish as provided in RCW 77.12.047.
(4) The commission shall have final approval authority for tribal, interstate, international, and any other department agreements relating to fish and wildlife.
(5) The commission shall adopt rules to implement the state's fish and wildlife laws.
(6) The commission shall have final approval authority for the department's budget proposals.
(7) The commission shall select its own staff and shall appoint the director of the department. The director and commission staff shall serve at the pleasure of the commission.

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#985131 - 02/08/18 11:37 AM Re: Commissions Turn to Prove Support for Transparency [Re: Bay wolf]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1057
Loc: Graham, WA
It's clearly time we start getting REAL answers to this question of "delegation" and what authority is attached to that delegation. The problem is, we keep asking the AG that is assigned to the WDFW and it sure seem's that his opinion is slanted toward keeping the meetings closed. If I recall, he actually told the Commission that "confidentiality" was GOOD for fishery management!

We need some outside legal authority to take a look at the OPMA and the delegation question.

Of course, the AAG and Warren voiced their opposition to the NOF Policy conversion to a WAC, because a conversion process would of allowed the public to demand having Transparency written into the WAC. So, if AAG is really only supposed to provide "legal advice", why is he lobbying against a proposed position? This whole thing is really starting to smell really bad!

Where is the lawyer sportsmen out there that has had enough?
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#985133 - 02/08/18 11:58 AM Re: Commissions Turn to Prove Support for Transparency [Re: Bay wolf]
wsu Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 419
That is the real answer. Someone just needs to sue them.

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#985186 - 02/08/18 07:36 PM Re: Commissions Turn to Prove Support for Transparency [Re: Bay wolf]
muley77 Offline
Fry

Registered: 09/28/11
Posts: 23
Loc: Snoho
will do

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#985189 - 02/08/18 08:22 PM Re: Commissions Turn to Prove Support for Transparency [Re: Bay wolf]
muley77 Offline
Fry

Registered: 09/28/11
Posts: 23
Loc: Snoho
To clarify I will not be suing them, my response was to Baywolf to forward my emails.

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#985194 - 02/08/18 09:17 PM Re: Commissions Turn to Prove Support for Transparency [Re: muley77]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1057
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: muley77
To clarify I will not be suing them, my response was to Baywolf to forward my emails.


Darn! I thought we was gonna start a celebration! LOL!

......thanks for the emails
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#985201 - 02/09/18 09:58 AM Re: Commissions Turn to Prove Support for Transparency [Re: Bay wolf]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7587
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
The history of WDF, WDG, WDW, WDFW and the various Commissions is convoluted.

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away WDF was headed by a Governor-appointed Director and WDG was headed by a Director appointed by a Governor-appointed Commission.

This changed in the 80s when WDG needed money, got access to General Fund, became WDW, and had a Governor-appointed Director.

At merger, in the early 90s, the WDFW Director was appointed by the Governor. This was so popular with the users that an Initiative was filed and approved by the voters making the Director appointed by and answerable to the Commission.

During subsequent years, though, the Commission has shown an extreme reluctance to actually deal with problems created by the Director they appointed. Bern Shanks comes to mind.

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#985240 - 02/09/18 08:53 PM Re: Commissions Turn to Prove Support for Transparency [Re: Carcassman]
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4681
Loc: Sequim
Thank you for the additional background. It is hard to keep things in order.

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#985351 - 02/12/18 06:06 PM Re: Commissions Turn to Prove Support for Transparency [Re: Bay wolf]
muley77 Offline
Fry

Registered: 09/28/11
Posts: 23
Loc: Snoho







Another reply from the AGO, after I sent him a reply, which is listed below his. Now I get to look up RCW 77.04.020






WDFW Closed Door Meetings with the Tribes
Monday, February 12, 2018 8:29 AM


From:
"Shorin III Joseph (ATG)" <JosephS@ATG.WA.GOV>



Sir, the Commission delegated to the Director the authority to enter into co-management agreements with the Tribes pursuant to RCW 77.04.020. This has been a long-standing delegation.

Joseph Shorin
Senior Assistant Attorney General
Fish, Wildlife and Parks Division
1125 Washington Street SE
P.O. Box 40100
Olympia, WA 98504-0100
Phone: 360-753-2496
Fax: 360-586-3454
Email: Josephs@atg.wa.gov

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 7:32 PM
To: Shorin III, Joseph (ATG) <JosephS@ATG.WA.GOV>
Subject: Re: WDFW Closed Door Meetings with the Tribes

Thanks for getting back to me. I disagree with your reference of the OPMA RCW 42.30 and here is why...... Per RCW 77.04.055 part of the WDFW commissions rules (#4) is that they will have final approval authority for tribal, interstate, international, and any other department agreements relating to fish and wildlife. This does not mean that you can hold closed door meetings with the tribe and develop a flawed 10 year plan for fish management without input from all user groups.

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