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#986042 - 02/25/18 02:39 PM Re: Truly SELECTIVE fishing.... [Re: Carcassman]
Jake Dogfish Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/24/00
Posts: 546
Loc: Des Moines
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
These traps will raise some really tough questions if they are successful at releasing wilds/protected fish. The basic question will be why have a hatchery at all if the only harvester will be traps? Until the wild run gets large enough, even release mortality will be important. As the wild run grows, it would be a higher fraction of the run (assuming a rather constant hatchery run). So, to maintain a mixed stock rec fishery you would actually encounter more releasable fish, which would then lower the hatchery fish take when the impacts are reached.


I’m trying to see your point through the usual Naysaying. How can you have too many wild fish?
If there are enough wild fish then fishing above the trap would not have to be selective?

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#986043 - 02/25/18 03:00 PM Re: Truly SELECTIVE fishing.... [Re: eyeFISH]
darth baiter Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 192
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: eyeFISH
The Cathlamet pound net (fish trap) project is the modern-day model for deploying this uber-selective gear type.

...

Final 2017 report....

A total of 7,129 salmon and steelhead were caught; about 2,000 Chinook and 1,000 steelhead were tagged. The Wild Fish Conservancy’s very preliminary analysis of [B]post-release survival of the tagged fish to McNary Dam was 99.6 percent for Chinook and 94 percent




As is, the researchers must have made some assumptions or some complex calculations to differentiate survival from the loss due to predation, harvest or turn off for those tagged fish that weren't destined for McNary Dam . These were the types of things that made the earlier study about release survival rates so difficult to sort out.

Numbers seem too good for handling fish in the lower Columbia during warm water.

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#986044 - 02/25/18 03:07 PM Re: Truly SELECTIVE fishing.... [Re: Jake Dogfish]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7587
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
If 1% of the mixed stock area is wild, then 1 in 100 encounters needs release. Or, catch 99 per release. If half that population is wild, then every other fish is wild and must be released until such time as that stock health improves. We have been reducing the number of hatchery fish out there and have either kept constant or reduced the wilds.

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#986077 - 02/26/18 06:27 AM Re: Truly SELECTIVE fishing.... [Re: Jake Dogfish]
JustBecause Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 07/18/08
Posts: 234
Originally Posted By: Jake Dogfish
Originally Posted By: eyeFISH
The Cathlamet pound net (fish trap) project is the modern-day model for deploying this uber-selective gear type.

...

Final 2017 report....

A total of 7,129 salmon and steelhead were caught; about 2,000 Chinook and 1,000 steelhead were tagged. The Wild Fish Conservancy’s very preliminary analysis of post-release survival of the tagged fish to McNary Dam was 99.6 percent for Chinook and 94 percent for steelhead.

“We were thrilled with these results,” Tuohy said
https://www.nwcouncil.org/news/blog/pound-net-experiment-on-the-lower-columbia-december-2017-report/


Whoa Awesome Survival! hello I wonder if some of the Steelhead headed downstream?


To echo Darth Baiter's comments above....

My guess (based on how some of the past selective gear work has gone) is that these values, which stipulate McNary survival, are likely based on only a subset of the fish handled - those that they tagged that passed Bonneville. So, these values should probably be tempered with some more context. Not that they aren't likely pretty good, relative to other gears.

Unless Doc was there, at the trap, to help them ID the stock/run of fish and perhaps even the tributary/hatchery of origin at the time of tagging?

(good fun intended) laugh






Edited by JustBecause (02/26/18 06:29 AM)

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#986079 - 02/26/18 06:45 AM Re: Truly SELECTIVE fishing.... [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7587
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
There are many layers to it. The fish stocks enter at different times. To make numbers up for purely discussion purposes, steelhead tagged in the Fall could be primarily summers bound for Idaho and the upper river. A different group of summers from those that enter in May and June. If they ran the net later in the Fall, when chum are the target, you would probably be in winters, none of which would go above McNary.

They have, or should have, a pretty good idea of which stocks would be encounters at any given time. It is likely, too, that an experienced person can identify stock (summer/winter, spring fall, tule/bright) and age only the stocks of interest.

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#986081 - 02/26/18 06:50 AM Re: Truly SELECTIVE fishing.... [Re: eyeFISH]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1393
Originally Posted By: eyeFISH
It's a double edged sword, for sure.

Losers are those fishing upstream of the trap. For them, it's the ULTIMATE low-hole for any meaningful opportunity.

To preserve that opportunity, the logical place for hatch removals is at the barrier weir itself

But realistically the quality goes to $h!t and no one can sell those boots.


The most logical place already exists and has for 80 yrs. No brainer, trap on each Bonneville fish ladder sort and distribute.
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller.
Don't let the old man in!

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#986084 - 02/26/18 06:58 AM Re: Truly SELECTIVE fishing.... [Re: RUNnGUN]
JustBecause Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 07/18/08
Posts: 234
Originally Posted By: RUNnGUN
Originally Posted By: eyeFISH
It's a double edged sword, for sure.

Losers are those fishing upstream of the trap. For them, it's the ULTIMATE low-hole for any meaningful opportunity.

To preserve that opportunity, the logical place for hatch removals is at the barrier weir itself

But realistically the quality goes to $h!t and no one can sell those boots.


The most logical place already exists and has for 80 yrs. No brainer, trap on each Bonneville fish ladder sort and distribute.


I'm sure everyone here would also lay down their gear and get in line for a fish handout at Bonneville? You know, just to further reduce fishing mortality...

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#986085 - 02/26/18 07:41 AM Re: Truly SELECTIVE fishing.... [Re: JustBecause]
Jake Dogfish Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/24/00
Posts: 546
Loc: Des Moines
Originally Posted By: JustBecause
Originally Posted By: RUNnGUN
Originally Posted By: eyeFISH
It's a double edged sword, for sure.

Losers are those fishing upstream of the trap. For them, it's the ULTIMATE low-hole for any meaningful opportunity.

To preserve that opportunity, the logical place for hatch removals is at the barrier weir itself

But realistically the quality goes to $h!t and no one can sell those boots.


The most logical place already exists and has for 80 yrs. No brainer, trap on each Bonneville fish ladder sort and distribute.


I'm sure everyone here would also lay down their gear and get in line for a fish handout at Bonneville? You know, just to further reduce fishing mortality...

Anybody who can sell the fish would wait in line.

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