More:

“If God is as perfect as his advocates here claim, the human body wouldn’t need a different design. “

And I propose that it DOESN’T need a different design. The bodies work just fine It’s the people making the choices of how\when they use that is the issue…

“Nor would humans need to behave differently.”

That’s just silly. Actions have consequences – good or bad. Just because a choice a person makes results in a negative consequence, doesn’t mean he was ‘designed’ wrong.

“ They could “practice” making babies all they want. “

My wife and I manage this just fine

“A perfect and omnipotent God would bestow the birth of children only to couples ready and responsible enough to assume the duties of parenthood.”

First off, not everyone is or wants to be under the ‘control’ of God. God allows us to make choices. Just like he allows bad things to happen. It is up to us to choose how we will choose and how we will respond to the possible consequences. Having a baby out of wedlock (say for a teen girl) is surely a huge burden and responsibility. But it doesn’t mean she can’t overcome and grow\learn from the experience.


This “design” works throughout human history, with children being born when parents are the right age according to capabilities and lifespans of their era.

But again, this requires God controlling people in a micro-management sort of way. Your ‘design’ requires God overstepping the ‘free will’ rule…


“I don’t have to allow for “free will,” as an omnipotent God and human free will are mutually exclusive. “

Perhaps. I’m not sure any of use FULLY understand how free will and omnipotence REALLY works…

“And yes, I’ve read the arguments for both cases. I’m partial to the case that humans cannot possible have free will if the omnipotent God knows their predestination to accept or reject him. “

That’s certainly a possibility. But clearly not the ONLY alternative…


“I accept that if God knows, then it ain’t free will (kind of like Aunty M’s stance on unconditional love - and your mailbox story is not an analogous fit BTW.).”

First off, who knows for sure what God ‘knows’. The concept of ‘time’ on Earth is not something He is bound by. For some bad examples, you might know the end of the movie or how a game will turn out – but you had no control of the choices made by the actors\players…

“And if it is free will, then God ain’t omnipotent, which also means not perfect, which also means not God as described by you and most “true” believers.”

Being ‘all powerful’ does not mean you control all things. It means he has the power to, but God chooses to allow us to have free will. He desires us to come to Him and love Him on our own accord. He has no use to mindless robots… Your understanding of being ‘perfect’ and being ‘omnipotent’ is clearly limited, since you have never actually experienced yourself (or at least I don’t think you have ).


“Further, what is so perfect about a God, who first makes Adam and Eve, but demands that they not eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil? He wants them to be illiterate, but happy, retards? I thought we’ve come to understand that all good and responsible parents want to educate our children, and that includes knowing about both good and evil. Doesn’t this story stretch it a bit for you?”

Have you ever put a piece of candy within hands reach of a 2-3 year old, told them not to eat it, then left the room. How long did the candy last? God KNEW what they would do. Keep in mind that he has an ‘end game’ in mind that included salvation through Jesus Christ. Besides, this so called fruit was only the knowledge of good and evil, not knowledge\wisdom in general… The result\consequence of ‘eating the fruit’ was being bound by death and removed from the ‘garden’ and the presence of God.

As for the good parent idea – God was not only thinking of Adam and Eve, but of all the future generations to come. And as you suggested, God was using this not only as a learning experience, but as the final solution for sinful, free choosing people to be able to be reconciled to God through Christ.