One more thing... Whatever the verdict on harvest, I think we all agree the ocean is a huge part of what determines overall abundance. It seems pretty clear that when we enjoy above average returns, we have the ocean to thank for it. Unfortunately, there is next to nothing we can do to control that. However, if ocean conditions are the reliable predictor of relative abundance we have come to understand they are, shouldn't we adapt our fisheries models to reduce impacts during years of low ocean survival? Well, as it stands, we don't do that. Instead, we continue to fish right down to or below escapement. Then we have to ask why hatchery supplementation isn't increasing wild abundance?