I don't know how you can say the Democrats are better at governing. A statement like that has no basis in anything but fantasy and wishful thinking. There is just no way possible to provide anything that would substantiate that. I suppose it is possible, but then I look at what is going on and I can not even fathom it being much worse.

At present, the Democrats have controlled washington state 100% for the majority of the past 35 years, with just 2 years in that time where the republicans had control of the house and senate and a few more where the house and senate where split.

The things that the Democrats are supposed to be good at are among the areas where the problems are the worst. Western state is was decertified. The homeless crisis is out of control. Over doses and crime have skyrocketed. Poverty rates are about the exact same as over 30 years ago, indicating no improvements under the democrats -The party for the poor! This essentially mirrors the national levels, meaning the Washington State Democrats have had no effect.

The only thing the Democrats have proven success in is increasing the tax burdens.

Again, it is possible the Republicans could have done worse, but if you want to argue that, please provide some evidence. Any evidence. Is there a state where the republicans have been in control where the previous indicators show significant declines?

Does anyone find it funny that after 30 + years of Democrate control, DEI is so important at this juncture. Are the Democrats that racist or prejudiced.

Comparing what desantis and abbot do for their citizens as compared to what inslee and newscum have done, should be enough evidence. Gavin will clean up when a Chinese dictator comes to town but, wont for its own taxpayers. Almost like he doesn't value them. Weird.

Streamer,

I'm well aware of the use of controlled burns to mitigate or prevent subsequent wildfire damage. Your assumption appears to be that managers have the resources to do controlled burns every place and every time one might be prescribed. And not every place that needs mitigation is suited to the mitigation measures. Even you would likely understand that you can't necessarily do whatever you want everywhere. A rational person understands that sometimes catastrophic natural disasters happen, even with the best of planning, and incrementally more likely with incrementally less preparation. Total prevention is roughly more than 99% impossible, if you're at all familiar with probability.

If you watch state agencies and budgets - especially R controlled budgets - you'd know that none have the amount of personnel and funding necessary to carry out such massive mitigation. If Newsom is responsible for cutting $100 million from fire suppression - and I'll have to fact check it to believe it - then I bet he regrets it now. The fact is that every state has competing needs for funding, whether it's education, health services, or fire fighting. The end result is usually that no one gets all the money they claim to need. Saying today that CA should have spent more on preventative measures is the art of Monday morning quarterbacking. Everyone enjoys 20:20 hindsight. At the time the budget was being split up, neither of us can say what the highest priorities were. We aren't there; we weren't there.

Streamer & Krijack,

Through the 1990s the Rs and Ds were roughly similiar in their respective governing ineptitude. That changed as the Christian Right began to take over the Republican Party. Their uncompromising push to combine church and state and to govern citizens' bedrooms (abortion & gay rights) has made the Rs more extreme than even the worst of the Ds. Reagan's term ushered in the R's dedication to laying waste to the environment. In the 60s and 70s both parties seemed to want to clean up pollution and protect air and water quality and set aside special landscapes. That has changed. R's are continuously trying to reverse and deregulate environmental protection. You cannot honestly say with a straight face that Rs are better than Ds at protecting the environment.

Then came Trump. Past R leaders Paul Ryan, Kevin McCarthy, and Steve Scalise were caught on tape admitting they thought Trump was on Putin's payroll. Is there some point, any point, where Rs will say, "that goes too far; we're out!" Apparently not. There used to be one set of facts. Since Trump, Rs routinely pull facts out of their asses. A few Republicans have drawn a line in the sand: Liz Cheney, Mike Pence (belatedly), Bill Barr, Mitch McConnell (sorta'), Mitt Romney, and a few others declared that Trump lost in 2020, and essentially called him a huge assshole for continuing to claim he didn't. Yet Barr and McConnell turned around and endorsed him for 2024. Republicans are the masters of nominating the "you've got to be fvcking kidding me" candidates: Palin, Herschel Walker, MTG, Lauren Bobert, George Santos? Is there any nutcase who couldn't run as a Republican? And now the Trump and his transition team are picking cabinet nominees based on loyalty to Trump with little to no regard for qualifications. Does it not matter at all to you that Trump doesn't give a sh!t about loyalty to the Constitution? God help us if you think Trump loyalty equals qualification.

So yeah, Ds have their faults. Wokeism has gone too far, but prosecuting men who coerced women to have sex for jobs makes America a better place. And cancel culture has descended into stupidity, only to be adopted by Rs as well. And to Krijack's point about WA governance, I'll grant you that the Ds have been pretty classic tax and spend Democrats, often with little to show for it. Other than the money successfully being spent. Tell ya' what, nominate some Rs who want the gov't to stay out of people's bedrooms and think it's a damn good idea to protect the environment that we ALL depend on, and I'll be out there hustling the votes.

Salmo,

I went the local republican primary convention once. The party platform they adopted was essentially the exact same they lost on the previous 4 elections. The problem is, most of us do not have the time to put in the effort to fight those with extreme views. Lets be honest, if you truly believe abortion it murder then shouldn't you fight as hard as you can to end it? Those with more extreme views are always going to control the party as long as it is set up the way it is. I think some of the candidates are more flexible or realistic in their thinking but are either not given a chance or are forced into a corner early on that they then have to fight their way out of. The best example would be Reichert's stance on voting for Trump and on Abortion. If he had said early on he was against Trump or not anti-abortion, he would have been pushed out. Then, when it comes time to cater to the actual bulk of the voters, the Democrats hammer on the more extreme points.
The republicans do the same to the Democrats, just not as successfully. Unfortunately, I fear that many Democrats in power actually believe some of the more extreme views, ones that the majority of Democrats themselves would be against. Locke went against the Teachers union and was done. Ferguson has already hit back a little against the Democrat majority about tax increases. Time will see if he is actually popular enough to govern rationally.

Being honest, I think those who believe abortion is murder should not have abortions. I think they should try to persuade others to believe as they do instead of trying to control their opponents through legislation. Legislating the behavior of others to go against their own personal beliefs is guaranteed to generate ill will.

I agree that party primaries seem to be controlled by the extremists. They have that control because the moderates fail to push back. So here we are, unable to reduce the influence of the wing nuts and whack-a-doodles. Which party most closely embraces sanity? With Rs pulling facts out of their asses, lying about practically everything, and nominating nutcases, I'd say it's the Ds, their wokism, cancel culture, and over-stated trans rights notwithstanding.

The problem is, the democrats have had every chance to do something and haven't.
Two years ago, I went down to the Green river to fish. The entire road, at that time, seemed to be an endless row of homeless people camping along the river. The only reaction I saw to it at that time, was to lock up all the public bathrooms.
Perfect government reaction. Where are all these people pooping. They definitely were not leaving.

When it came time to sports gambling, the state simply gave the rights exclusively to the state. Oregon, collects about $30,000,000 a year in taxes, while gambling companies made just under $65,000,000. All the state had to do was tell the tribes they could get 100% of the market if they agreed to tax it, other wise they would open up to non-tribal entities. But instead, they just handed it away for nothing. My estimate is it is about $2000 per member.

Mostly agree. The problem is that the issue of abortion needs to be discussed at the level that most people aren’t willing (or are unable) to discuss it at. Also, everyone wants to make the issue about “women’s rights” reactively after the fact, instead of discussing it as a philosophical issue that is more about morality, responsibility, integrity and before the fact.

Nobody wants to discuss why people engage in sexual behavior (intercourse) if they cannot bear the consequences of those actions. The Bible specifically indicates sex should be between a married man and woman, and largely for the purposes of procreation. People choose to conveniently ignore this naively thinking they have all the answers and can dance their way around any type of consequence. Godless, purposeless, indulgent, reckless, irresponsible and ignorant people endorse this.

Yeah, accidents happen. People make mistakes, but instead of doubling down on additional bad choices by having an abortion, (which comes with additional complications, health risks, depression, etc.) maybe it’s an opportunity in life to adopt responsibility and be a part of something bigger than your own selfish self. This includes fathers as well. I don’t like living in a society where people are encouraged to skirt responsibility under the guise of being a “woman’s rights” issue. This isn’t good for anyone. But count on the political left to make this about “woman’s rights” and that it’s a bunch of “old conservative white men” trying to have control over women’s bodies. Guess what? Old conservative white men founded this county. Maybe they should have a say in policies that affect the bedrock of our society. Oh yeah, and also count on the left to play the the emotional arguments about rape and incest, which accounts for less that 0.5% of abortions.

You know who is actually trying to control women’s bodies? Leftists like Salmo who want women to have abortions to maximize their sexual value for other men to use and abuse. Women who get abortions have higher rates of STI’s, considerably more sexual partners, more likely to be in poverty, more likely to be raped, more likely to have untreated mental health issues, and less likely to have or be in the process of earning an education.

Maybe society should go back to abstinence sex education. While it isn’t perfect, it does offer the best solution. Clearly, sex education with access to contraceptions is not working. There are missing pieces to the solution, and nobody wants to talk about it.


Streamer

The County cleaned up Green River Road and it has stayed cleaned up.

Sure, let's discuss it ". . . as a philosophical issue that is more about morality, responsibility, integrity and before the fact."

Morality is a human construct. It is whatever a community of people decide it is. You may believe that sex outside of marriage is immoral, but the facts suggest that a majority of people either don't believe it's immoral or don't care. And that includes a large percentage, perhaps a majority even, of church going alleged Christians. Bringing God and the Bible into the conversation is just silly because many people don't believe in that God or the Bible or choose to give both low station in their lives. Personally I regard religion as irrelevant to the discussion.

The scientist in me tells me that sex is a biological imperative, not a religious one. So pragmatically speaking, let's set this morality, God, and the Bible aside since even the people who preach it don't act it, except possibly Mike Pence. And sex largely for the purpose of procreation? Who are you trying to kid? Have you been living under a rock? I don't know about you, but most men and women engage in sex for sport. And I don't mean that in a negative way. Among humans sex is part of an intimate emotional connection. It definitely serves a purpose other than procreation; it is indulgent, but it's only reckless, irresponsible, and ignorant when practiced outside that emotional connection.

Abstinence is the best solution only if you deny that humans are sexual beings. Sex education is a good idea because stupid puritans don't inform their kids and then act surprised or get mad when their kid either gets pregnant of gets someone else pregnant. Sex ed makes for fewer STDs and unwanted pregancies, but it doesn't prevent sex. Nothing does. Deliberately ignorant puritans refuse to get it. People have sex, always have, always will. Accept the reality and decide how to live in that reality instead of dwelling in denialism.

Having an abortion may be doubling down on a bad choice in your case, but others see it as a logical course of action to an unwanted or dangerous pregnancy. I know my place in this arrangement, and it's not to judge another's personal decision in such a personal matter. Apparently you have the right to dictate how others, particularly women, should behave. News flash: you don't!

I too like a society where people take individual responsibility. I see the decision to have an abortion as a person exercising just that - personal responsibility.

I'll grant you that white men founded this country. Most weren't old. And the conservatives were the Tories, many of whom moved to Canada rather than be part of a revolution. Rebelling against the King is the direct opposite of conservative. (Conservative: resists change; slow to change.) And the Founders should have, and did have a say in the bedrock policies of the country. They also recognized the inevitability of change, and allowed for that. So that was then, and this is now. Women have been demanding equal rights at law for over a hundred years. Men, being the stingy bastards that they are, along with a lot of duped women, have resisted that change.

And just to be clear, it's stupidly offense to accuse me of wanting to control women's bodies to maximize their sexual value for me and other men to abuse. Talk about an unfounded cheap shot. Welcome to being a modern Republican for whom there is no bar too low that you won't cross it.

Sure let’s discuss.

The Bible and God are relevant to the discussion as it relates to being a framework for having constraint on human behaviors. I believe at one point Fish Prince discussed man’s innate urges to eat, fvck, and kill. The most selfish of people deny this aspect within humans. The best and most pure method of constraint on man’s urges is laid out in the Bible. Whatever worldly method you employ (if any at all) will ultimately fall short.

Sex is largely for the purposes of procreation but also for enjoyment. Biblical parameters are set around this by saying it should be between a married couple to offer protections for potential offspring and emotional protection by maintaining fidelity and bypassing the complexities of emotions that come with having multiple partners, affairs, etc. As stated previously, women (and most men) who have/had multiple partners are also more likely to suffer from mental health issues. Biblical framework around sexuality offers a variety of protections. I agree with your statement about sex for enjoyment (which is also sometimes okay) but as also being indulgent and often times reckless, but I take it further than just outside of emotional human connection and place it within marriage that offers more layers of stability and protection. Do you walk around and fvck every woman you have an emotional connection with? Most women (and men) in a committed relationship would not be okay with this. If by any chance you think polyamory or open relationships can work, ask Toff how that’s working for him.

Also, I wouldn’t assume that terminating a pregnancy is the responsible route. In most cases, it’s a denied opportunity for adopting responsibility which is what’s needed in those situations. Adopting responsibility is what makes people grow and also brings meaning and purpose to their lives to make better and more informed choices. Want to have sex? Adopt responsibility and settle down instead of opting for the low and convenient parameters by cheap protections and worldly societal standards.

However, coupled with this idea is man’s obligation to also help and serve others who are in need. There are resources out there for pregnant women, and I also encourage helping others in the ways that we can with the talents and gifts we are blessed with. I can take some pride in knowing that I back up my beliefs with actions consistent to my idea. I encourage others to do the same.

As far as the cheap shot, it’s the dark side. You probably don’t believe the straw man I threw your way, but lots of (mostly leftist) men do and men who encourage sexual promiscuity are terrible people. The comment is more directed at your team encouraging the idea than you personally, but maybe the show fits.


Streamer

What Green River Road are we referring to ?

Surely not this Green Valley Road !

I was talking about Green River Rd. in Kent, not the Green Valley Rd. in Auburn.

"As far as the cheap shot, it’s the dark side. You probably don’t believe the straw man I threw your way, but lots of (mostly leftist) men do and men who encourage sexual promiscuity are terrible people. The comment is more directed at your team encouraging the idea than you personally, but maybe the show fits."

My team? Hah! Mostly leftists like prez Trump and his numerous affairs and Trump's defense nominee Hesgeth who had a child with a woman who wasn't his wife. Yeah, that's ripe, suggesting that left wingers are the promiscuous ones. Oh, and right wing buddy Elon, 12 kids with 4 women. A bunch of Bible thumpers you've got there.

Again, the Bible is relevant only to those who adopt and accept the Bible. With around 40% of Americans being unchurched, there are a lot of people to whom the Bible means little or nothing. So how's the Bible relevant to them? Then you have religions other than Christian that you conveniently overlook. The upshot is that by their behavior, most Americans don't give a sh!t about God or the Bible making it inapplicable to the abortion issue for most people. Just as you have no right to cram your religion down the throats of other people, the same goes for your view on abortion. It really is that simple. Extreme Christians are just as bad for society as are the Jihadist Muslims. They're all terrorists who just have to control everyone else.

So I prefer the separation of church and state. And keeping the state out of people's bedrooms. I'm a live and let live kind of guy. I won't tell you what you should do, and I sure as hell ain't gonna' put up with you trying to tell me how to live. Can't we agree on that?

Congrats. You found one of the reasons I am not a Trump cultists. As I have stated before, I think his past personal conduct leaves a lot to be desired and I don’t approve of the way he has behaved in his personal life. I’m also not a huge fan of Hegseth for that and other reasons. You found the exceptions. Good for you. But but but Streamer is still a cultist!

Conveniently ignoring the fact that Democrats also have similar conduct problems. Joe Biden’s extensive history of sexually assaulting women has been swept under the rug. Nice work cherry picking. Sexual promiscuity and deviance is more widely endorsed and accepted by the political left. It’s just a fact bruh.

The Bible provides the best template for how to live one’s life. The Tripitaka, the Tanakh, and the Quran offer similar benefits as a template with life principles to follow. I think any religion is better than no religion, and the Bible offers the best benefit. Modern culture and society (progressives) provide worldly templates to follow which all fall short compared to any type of guidance offered by religion. Follow worldly guidance and fall victim to the world with little meaning, purpose or fulfillment.

I also believe in separation of church and state… to an extent. This county was founded on Judo-Christian values that are intricately woven into the fabric of society. Laws governing this country ought be mindful of this as it incorporates elements of morality that are derived from these values. Ignore them to your own demise. I’m not going to tell you what to do but don’t try to convince me there are better ways to live one’s life being guided by worldly desires.


Streamer

Yeah, you're a cultist. You gave your vote to a known felon who just pardoned 1,400 felons. Well, maybe some of those were just convicted of misdemeanors. Way to show your support for the Capitol police department and the rule of law. We are somewhat officially now a lawless nation. Anything goes! Speaking of the law, Trump also singularly is trying to re-write the 14th Amendment to do away with birthright citizenship. Azzhole doesn't care that presidents and Congress cannot change the Constitution; only a new Amendment can do that. Unless of course, Trump's corrupt SCOTUS decides he can.

Some Democrats are also in the sexual misconduct column, but when a D senator made a comment to or about a woman on a plane (I forget which) the Ds in the Senate forced him to resign. Unlike the Rs, who re-elect an adjudicated rapist (sexual assault under NY law) to a 2nd term as prez. BTW, another forum I visit has a lengthy thread titled, "Sexual predators R Us." Roughly 90% of the entries on its many pages are Rs and Christian conservatives. I could go do an exact count if you need the exact true fact bruh. The Rs and conservatives may not endorse it, but they sure as hell do get arrested a lot more for it. And nice whataboutism referring to Biden's many sexual assaults that I've never heard about. Must have been swept far under the rug, or else, oh yeah, sniffing a woman's hair is right up there with rape and assault - NOT!

Another BTW, I'm not anti-religion. I'm just going half-way Bill Maher for the sake of this discussion. As you point out Judaeo-Christian morality and ethics attributes are not unique to them. Nor were they invented by them. Many of those values evolved with the development of civilization and have continued to evolve ever since. It's only a problem when believers of a particular religious regime connive to use the force of civil law to coerce others who don't align with those beliefs to follow them anyway, like restricting abortion access - to return to the root of this discussion. If others want to follow and live lives devoid of meaning, purpose, or fulfillment, let them! It's no skin off your nose. Why do you insist on being such a control freak?

The laws governing this country ought to be mindful that not everyone practices the same religion or any religion. If you're a conservative, the laws of this country ought to stay out of the lives of its citizens to the extent practicable. Staying out of their bedrooms would be a good place to start. Laws are necessary to form structure for society (driving on the right side of the road, yield right of way, and on down the line, etc.). If the law that governs least, governs best, then laws codifying behavior of people ought to focus on the interactions between people (murder, assault, robbery, etc.) and not on individuals minding their own business (like getting abortions if they want them).

Get ready for the ride. I do hope the intended and unintended consequences of Trump 2.0 rains holy hell on the people who voted for him. Unfortunately those of us who didn't vote for him will be affected as well.

The cultists elected our Felon in Chief, who reportedly said, "Fvck it, release them all." Trump signed an order pardoning or commuting the sentences of all the J6 rioters, regardless whether their convictions were minor, as in criminal tresspass or disorderly conduct, to obstructing an official government function, and even seditious conspiracy. All those plus those still awaiting trial for their roles in the Capitol riot 4 years ago. All to demonstrate that no crime is too great if it is performed in loyalty to Trump. Turns out it wasn't Mexico that released criminals to prey on innocent Americans; it was Trump! Congratulations cultists, you earned this stain on America.

Wowzer , this has to be the shrit- smelliest bit of bait trolling yet this year ! Hard to imagine it comes from someone that helped save fly fishing on the Skagit to protect the mighty wild Steelhead, sorta.

Just terrible what TDS can doo .

Salmo,, they were hostage's/political prisoners entrapped and rail road'd by a corrupt justice system and FBI.. The whole thing was a set up and a projection by the Deep State to deflect their actions back onto their enemy...

The insurrection happened when a massive fraud scheme was successfully deployed to steal the 2020 election and the government was captured via a fraudulent and corrupt certification,, not just at the House of representatives in DC but in each State Capitol where these knowingly fraudulent elections were certified,, at the office of each local county auditor where these local fraudulent elections were certified...

There was a blockade erected by the entire justice system,,, local sheriffs refused to investigate valid claims of election fraud in 2020... Election Fraud happens at the local level,,, it is the jurisdiction of the local sheriff to investigate and ensure free and fair elections... If your elections are stolen you have no freedom or liberty,, its a subversion of the US Constitution and a theft of individual/collective power of the people...

I think we need to hear from the Trumpster directly on this

Shillster 2.0,

Why do you wish ill will on others? As much as I despise your short-sighted and cult-like adherence to the blue team, I don’t even wish holy hell to be cast upon the likes of you. Why are you so full of hate?

Wanting to kill life in the womb is unnatural and sick. Sick people get abortions (not just physically sick but mentally sick). I’m not a control freak as you claim. I’m just tired of people like you who enable irresponsibility to the point of pure recklessness. I don’t want a society with low birth rates killing babies simply out of convenience while enabling irresponsible actions. All life is valuable and the ultimate good is making something great out of a less than ideal situation. It’s the American way. Do what you want in your Godless, insignificant and meaningless life. I don’t care. Just don’t kill babies to avoid consequences or avoid adopting responsibility, especially after 20 weeks that have been legally defined as having viability and that physically feel pain.

Explain your theory and rationale for morality, values, ethics being solely derived from the “development of civilization” with no influence from religions. I’ll be waiting. Lol.

Again… you are wrong about J6. (About most things usually and I’m not surprised.) The majority aren’t technically felons. You are either an idiot or conveniently using hyperbolic language to build your weak point. I personally don’t agree with the pardons for people who assaulted police or engaged in property destruction, but that represented a fraction of those who faced charges. Literally hours worth of footage showing people being allowed to enter the Capitol.

As much as you hate “whataboutisms” this is still less significant than the pardons issued by Joe Biden. Biden broke the record by thousands including his own families members, Fauci, and the J6 panel. He’s far more of a scum bag than Trump. Anyone who believes otherwise is also probably a scumbag. Probably including you.


Streamer