I read post after post regarding Tribal netting and they all seem to contain the same rhetoric and bashing. Opinions from one extreme to the other fly all over the place. The truths that can't be ignored or disputed are the facts that the Tribes can legally net, and our fish are slowly going away. I know that there are several Native Americans that post here and my question is directed at you. I ask that you give full disclosure when responding to this question....Why do your Tribes continue to net a diminishing stock of wild Steelhead, is it for religous reasons or money!!!!!! Let's allow The Native Americans to tell us their side of the story. NO BASHING ALLOWED!!!!

[This message has been edited by GreenSauks (edited 02-05-2001).]

[This message has been edited by GreenSauks (edited 02-05-2001).]

Boy, this is gonna be like walking down a dark alley in a bad neighborhood!

Although I don't gillnet or am I the tribal spokesperson. I'll put my .02 cents in. I think it goes beyond just deciding to put the net in in March because there's nothing else to do.

It goes to the pre-season agreements between the state and each tribe on harvestable fish. Boiling down to number of days allowed to reach this number.

The state and the tribes work out an agreement on what amount of days it will take to harvest an estimated number of fish. During this day calculation, it is expected that some days are not going to be fishable because of freshets. Now, what about a low precip. year such as this year. The nets are in the rivers fishing more than was expected. Are the tribes required to fish until they catch their quota of steelhead? Or do they stick to the day allotment even though they are catching more then the 50% of estimated harvestable catch, and enjoy the good year of fishing? Who monitors this,and is the netting schedule changed mid season(like closures in sport fishing) or do the tribes stick to what they agreed to with the state, before the season started? Does anyone know how this works?

Why is it that when I go to the Sportsman Show, I notice the two OP caught, 30+ lb. skin mount nates on the wall - both less then three years old?

Not to take sides on the issue, but why do Washington Sportsmen continue to harvest native steelhead when we all know runs are declining? Because it's legal to do so?

Why is there a commercial fishery off of our waters when we know how lethal that fishery is to our native stocks of fish? Because it's legal to do so?

Maybe it's about time we start changing our laws and start protecting our fish.

Just my $.02.

Parker

for the few who do fish that late in the year they are mostly targeting sockeye in the quinault. last year we shut the quinault down to any netting for sockeye or any other fish to allow for better escapement. if you have a fish stock that is going down hill you should not fish either hook or line or net for that species. alot of us quinault guides are in the same boat as you guy's ,trying to get them to shorten their fishing time, i like to give my fishermen the best chance to catch the fish of a lifetime. it's hard to explain to the netters that you can make $300 a day for a few fish and hardly anything for a fish caught in a net.

I would like to know why it is legal for the Tribes to net Kings on the Humptulips. That fishery is closed to the Sportsmen. While the Hump has a healthy run of hatchery kings it has an endangered run of Wild kings that run at the same time. The nets don't know the difference between Hatchery Kings and Wild Kings. How is it that they continue to net? There is no sportsman catch so there must not be any harvestable fish. Do the tirbes really care about that resource, or do they simply do it because it is legal? If the answer is that they do it because it is legal and the want to make money, then they better realize that they are just as wrong as the Buffalo Hunters of the late 1800's.

Keep in mind that the majority of Sportfishermen are moving towards C&R of wild fish. The guide who had 2 30lb OP Nates mounted in their booth at the Sportsman show is an idiot and should flogged. Guides are supposed to be professionals and should educate their clients in propper handeling of fish and the need for C&R.

I believe the situation on the Hump was to catch the hatchery coho and as few of the chinook as possible. The fishery was carefully monitered and very limited. I'm not trying to start a debate on fishing the Hump last year just trying to provide some insight.

Hey Blueback,

With the control the tribe has over the Q, just think how many fish would be in the river after a few years of no nets. Every single tribal member could be a guide and would be booked solid since the river would, by all accounts, be far superior to any other river in the area.

Imagine what the cash flow would be amongst the members that guide. You guys would become the example that others would try to copy.

it's hard to get people to change their ways, you guys know that.

Potter

I thought you might use the Coho excuse. The fact of the matter is that all of those runs take place at the same time and nets are indescrimenant killers. I would be a lot less negative about Tribal fishing if they fished in a manner that was trueley selective and showed some respect for the resource.

Thanks for you're insite Blueback

Here goes the whole truth & nothing but the truth.I only speak for the muckleshoots&the green duwamish system.The tribal bios.meet with the state&look at spawner numbers from the 3 to4 years prior along with the flooding that may have occurred.From that they get the conservative run size(our policy is if were gonna err we err on the side of the resource)this year that number was 596 fish split that 298 for state 298 for tribe.In the pre-season agreement there is a drop dead date after which no netting will take place usually feb.15th.Although it could be earlier.To answer your ? about why only the fisherman can answer you i guess.I fish for salmon but not the ironheads.And yes i fish to make money.Kore to answer your? about monitoring we along with state bios sample everyday of the season.I would say we get at least 95% of the total catch for the season.If there are,nt very many fish the fishery closes itself because nobody goes fishing.Any more questions just ask.I wish it was,nt so long i can,t type for s***!!!

Nativepride, thank you for your response and honesty! I understand how the calculations for returning fish are done, however, it reallys boils down to the state's best guess and I don't think any of us have much confidence in the accuracy. Just wondering.... How much are those 298 fish worth to you in terms of $$$.

GS

Nativepride,

Do the the Muckleshoots have any plans of going back to the old ways - weirs, wheels, etc? I support sharing the catch but find it absolutely gut wrenching to see all the nets strung across the Duwammish. Going back to the old ways would create the opportunity to hand pick which fish are killed and which are allowed to go up stream. Maybe that way the biggest spawners could be selected instead of the other way around. Would it mean more to you to fish how your ancestors did? I'm interested in your thoughts.

The real truth here is, The one's that have made it through the open sea's netting and the Native American netting are ESCAPEMENT if we the Sportsman with emphysis on Sportsman release all the Nate's then we have done our part for the Future, If we kill them then we are no better then the one's we all seem to want to point fingers at, Let's do all we can now And work on a resove for the rest. Let's just think about our sports brothern on the Nooch yesterday that had two Nate Buck's bonked in his boat(black and green stripe Willie, With the Simply the Best logo on it), He had the gall to tell me I was stupid and should read the Regs, He was legal. I might be Stupid but I know where the region 6 office is and did my part for future education....

( Say no to Native netting, And the retention of wild Steelhead by all Parties)

Hey sauks sorry i took so long been kinda busy.I have extreme confidence in the calculations on the green river because we have an excellent relationship with the guy from the state we work with and the fish and redds are counted twice a week i believe.So we are,nt just guessing what spawned or made it back to the river.As far as dollars for those fish.I personally didnt fish for them but the two guys that did made about $6000 grand iguess maybe more.Oh yeah it was,nt 298 because we kept out 50 for us tribal sporties.Spinnin fool i really dont want to get into that debate.I mean you guys did,nt fish with graphite rods, mono line,driftboats,or jet sleds did you.It,s just an argument that wont accomplish anything.Green sauks asked a couple ? and i answered them thats all.If you have any more i,ll try my best.

NativePride.....Thank you very much for your honesty Sir! This is exactly the type of dialoge we need if we are ever going to improve the current state of affairs.

I have a special place in my heart for the Green as I have been fishing it for Steelhead and Salmon since I was 11 years old. I will be 40 in October, that's over 28 years of personal perspective that I have regarding this river. I would like to continue our sharing of information, I find it very positive.

Here's my email address bburl62647@aol.com, I look forward to sharing ideas with you!

Bill

Nativepride,
Always enjoyed your post on this board keep up the ensightful posts.
I have a question for you being that you are a Native American fisherman. I would like an honest and insightful answer if possible because I think I'm treading in a new area or idea. So here it is.

If there was funding for the building of modern fish traps for the tribes and if there was an established market for the 50% of hatchery fish you are allowed at more than $3.00 a pound as long as all native fish were released from the traps to make their journey up river to spawn. Would you as a fisherman be interested?
Looking forward to any responses.
Steve Wrye.

When all of us sport fishing steelheaders release each and EVERY SINGLE Steelhead we catch then I think we can make a case to the tribes. But since a lot of sports fishing people are still taking home wild (native) Steelhead, then I think we have nothing to complain about. And just think about that in numbers, like an extra 100 fish spawning in the Hoh? I don't know the exact number but it makes me wonder how much better the fishing would be every year if we put them back. Proably like it was in the 50s and 60s. thanks.

Land tuna...Interesting idea!! keep em coming.

Skyrise...I agree 100%!!!! There should not be a sport catch and kill fishery on any stream for native Steelhead or Salmon. Need the help of the newly formed WSC to get the State to recognize that one.

Bill