Way to go DINO!!!!! Calling all of us inbreeds
is certainly the way to make friends. The life style is a little slower in this neck of the woods and we like it that way. At least when your on the river you don't have to worry about finding floaters with bullet holes or sludge from some meth labs. Maybe were not as archaic as YOU think!!!!

Local,

If you re-read Dino's post, he didn't call everyone over there inbreds, just the retards that shoot at fisherman. Now if you participate in this........

What about tha extra arm hangin out your back Dino!! Does that make you normal??Why don't you take it up with a sleestack!!!TM

------------------
"Just say HELL no to sovereign nation!!!!!"
SRBC Boyz

Local,
Your just upset because most folks 'round here have one more toe than the folks I was mentioning. Sludge? Methlabs? Corpses? I live in Walla Walla, maybe you should find a map and check it out. Everything in western Washington is closer to being big city than where I am.

Someone who shoots at people for trespassing (unless they are trying to hurt you or yours), is a six-toe-idjit. Waving around fire arms is a popular local tradition (in Wally World), but generally we don't try to kill folks, it's just not nice.

As for my third arm (TM), well it suits me just fine. Comes in handy sometimes. There nothing wrong with being a hick, just so you know I prefer the term HillBilly myself

[This message has been edited by Dino (edited 02-10-2001).]

Our sign reads "No Tresspassing, Tresspassers will be dealt with on sight! No if, ands or buts about it. What the heck would you do if we just walked up in your backyard and started messing around. Be mister nice? Doubt it. Posts about little rivers do matter, I have seen it also. Nothing wrong with talking about a good day fishing, just say the cowlitz.

I have noticed a sad change in the attitude of many anglers on this board. When I first discovered this site, people seemed much friendlier and open to sharing their knowledge of fishing and PNW waters. These days, the mantra seems to be "don't share" and blast those who do.

It is troubling also to hear of property owners who take up arms against anglers. Altough I hardly condone trespassing, one cannot argue that walking across a farmer's field or through a vacant lot to reach streamside is the equivalent of breaking into somebody's house or backyard.

It's shameful that private landowners prevent access to our rivers. The risk is not to the property owner, but to the public who are prevented from enjoying this state's natural resources. As far as I am concerned, private landowners should be required by law to provide public access to our rivers.

I am an avid angler. I respect nature, other people and their property. I fear, however, that this ugly developing attitude portends a dark future for angling in Washington.

Anglers need to stick together as a tight community. If fishing becomes a combat sport, then it will slowly be outlawed (it's already happening). Who will be to blame for this? It will be those people with the attitude I have described above. Shame on you... we will all suffer the consequences of the divisive seeds you are sowing.

Gerard W.
Seattle, WA

G-Spot,

I'm sure that you're the kind of guy who truly does appreciate nature and respects the land when using it. I am a riverfront land owner and if everybody was like you and really did respect the land I would open it back up for public use. Let me tell you that unfortunately, some of the bad apples have to ruin it for the rest of us. We used to have a "come in and out as you please" policy that has since been revoked due to the extremed disrespect that some people have for private land as well as public land.

Look at all of the garbage that you see at public access points. Now picture all of that garbage in your front yard, a couple of your evergreen trees cut down, vandalism, having your driveway torn up and having nobody do or pay for the road maintaence, threats made to you by tresspassers because you try to fish on your own land, hunters that shoot anything and everything that moves, and having your trout pond full of irreplaceable wild cutthroat fished out. Unfortunately, G-Spot, these are the kind of things that you have to deal with when you are a riverfront landowner so please understand that it may not be fair for people like you when private lands are closed, but the fact is that access is often closed for underlying reasons and not every landowner is going to greet you with a 12 gauge, but when a sign says "NO TRESSPASSING" you may not like it, but you take it upon yourself to risk the hostility of the landowner. I would never shoot at a tresspasser just because they were there, that's stupid and people that pull that crap should get a chance to think about it in the state pen.



[This message has been edited by SAUKit2em (edited 02-12-2001).]

HEYYYYYYYY.... This IS just fishing guy's... Man oh Man,, one thread talks about throwing rocks at each other, this one's talking about shooting each other... I wish you all would just stay home so I could relax out there and catch a fish!

My words exactly "Kid Sauk" saddly others have ruined it for the rest of us.

Another sad point was made about the condition of attitudes on this board.
It has become at times a not too friendly place,sometimes people get their lil nuggets busted because they post about small rivers being hot and what fish somebody else has in their boat etc. etc. TOO BLEEPING BAD SHUT UP !!!

I will openly discuss technics and ideas,but it's come up more than once that some Dudes think we are obligated to give up all info and locations,private spots and such are ment for e-mails Info... braggin about small rivers is just plain stupid ....my.02...Os

[This message has been edited by Osprey (edited 02-13-2001).]

Sauk, you said it all. If people respected private property it would still be open to fishermen. Everyone says that its a few that ruin it for everyone. I think that it the other way around. I sat on a river this year with about 25 people fishing and could't belive the garbage that was tossed by the majorty of the people and never picked up. There are still some small rivers that have good fishing and no crowds. It would by nice to keep them that way, once the crowds come so does the garbage. G-spot my feilds are no different than your back yard, just because they are farther from my house than yours. Weve had people come deer hunting and shoot a cow. Any different than someone coming in and shooting your dog in your backyard? Like Sauk says its amazing how many people think they have the right to tresspass. There is a reason why there are no tresspassing signs up on most places, mostly because alot of people have ruined it for everyone.

Easy everybody! Be nice

g-spot;
having grown up in seattle and living the first 36 years of my life there until transplanting to grays harbor, i feel by having experienced both lifestyles i am able to comment.
you wish for public access thru private lands, a wonderful notion if all things are equal. i wish to fish or swim in lake washington from bill gates' property, or from any one of the residences on mercer island. is that ok? probably would get met with resistance, carted off to the looney bin just for asking.
one of the saddest sights i see, every time i come north, is the continuing growth in the kent valley, formerly wonderful farmland and river access, not to mention wetlands which had great waterfowling. yet the environmetal concerns of the state continue to sell out to development, turn this way and want us to allow public access, and increase setbacks from 50' to 200'-a significant impact on our ability to use our own properties, yet with no reduction in taxes.
until the mismanagement of natural resources in puget sound is corrected, please do not try to mandate to us here how to manage our lands for your benefit.
best wishes for a perfect world

I agree with Cast This about the sad state of development that blocks access to rivers and lakes, be they Lake Washington in an urban area or the Methow River in a rural area.

I also believe,however, that public access to rivers and lakes should be ensured. Therefore, on a lake or river surrounded by private land, the burden of ensuring public access to the waterside necessarily should fall on the landowners.

Cast This wishes me luck for a "perfect world". Well, I don't think I am an idealist. As a Seattle native having lived and worked in Asia, Europe and North America for the past 12 years, I have an inkling of what can and cannot be achieved realistically.

In Switzerland, for example, river and lake access may not be blocked by private land owners. It is possible (in theory) to walk the whole length of the populated Swiss shores of Lake Geneva. True, some large estates outside Geneva do not provide this access. Nevertheless, I used to often walk or bike on the 15 mile stretch of a shoreside boardwalk stetching between Lausanne and Montreux. This is something beautiful for the whole world to enjoy, including gun-toting farmers from Washignton and Bill Gates, whose place there provides public shore access like everybody else fortunate enough to own property on the lake.

I don't expect this to happen in the US - it almost certainly will not. There are, however, consequences for landowners who block access to public resources with their no trespassing policies. Consider Lake Washington as an example. If public access were ensured around Lake Washington, then the general public would become the constituency for the lake. As it stands now, the only constituents for the lake are boaters and people with houses along its shore. There is little sympathy from the masses for private landowners who block access to what should clearly belong to the public, i.e. the shore of Lake Washington.

Concerning farmland vs. urban residences and shooting of dogs & cows, one cannot seriously argue that walking over farmland is the equivalent of breaking into a house. Also, the loss of a cow is not the same as the loss of a dog - the cow is an economic asset and the dog is a family pet. Unfortunately, both cows and dogs do get shot, so while the farmers' problem is sad and regretful, it is not unique.

Using the Swiss example again, farmers there are required to provide access to hikers over their fields in the mountains. Thank goodness for that - humanity would be worse off if the Swiss Alps were blocked off private landowners and their grazing cows. Unlike Switzerland, in Washigton, humanity suffers because access to the state's rivers and lakes is blocked increasingly by no trespassing signs and barbed wire.

To wrap it up - private landowners who block access to lake and river shores are (whether they like it or not) preventing the general public from enjoying responsibly something that they should have the right to enjoy. I believe this is wrong. It would be nice to see a change in the attitude of all involved. Mutual respect and courtesy would go a long way - I won't hold my breath... good luck indeed. Welcome to America!

Gerard W.
Seattle, WA

There are public lands set aside for use by all individuals. the federal government has set aside the National Parks, the state has set aside the State Parks. the forest service also has set aside public land in some of the national forests. this is the land the the public can access and enjoy. However, We are guaranteed in the amendments to the constitution the right to own our own land for our own private use.
http://encarta.msn.com/find/concise.asp?mod=1&ti=04491000&page=7


Amendment 5

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Comment: The Fifth Amendment provides five important protections against arbitrary government actions. First, no one may be prosecuted for a federal crime without first being indicted (formally accused) by a grand jury. Second, a criminal suspect may be prosecuted only once for each crime. If a jury acquits the accused person, there can be no retrial. Third, a person cannot be forced to testify against himself or herself in any criminal case. This is the right against self-incrimination. Fourth, the due process Clause bars the government from arbitrarily depriving anyone of life, liberty, or property. Fifth, the government may not take anyone's private property unless it is necessary for a public purpose and unless the government pays a fair price for it.

as private property owners we are guaranteed not to have to open it up for public use unless the government is willing to pay a fair price for it. I am glad that I live in the United State and am able to own my own piece of property. I am also thankful for the land owners that allow public access for fishing and hunting even though they don't have to.

If I was to open my property up to the public, I would definitely charge admission to help pay the property taxes.

Amen, Bremalo. You hit the nail on the head