I know in alot of washington rivers we get pretty big dollies when we steelhead fish. When you want a fish for dinner how many of you just keep a dollie instead of a stealhead. I know I do especially when some of them get pretty large (my biggest is 27"). Is it easier to reason that since the dollies eat alot of eggs and smolt that they should be removed?

I have kept one dollie on accident because he swallowed the hook and was dying so I bonked him and ate him for dinner, I think that you are right about them eating the eggs because I saw for a fact that when the late silvers were in they were at the bottem of the scool and eating up the eggs.

I've always released them,I thought that you couldn't harvest them on most of the O.P. river systems????.Maybe I should bonk them if they are eating our Salmon/Steelhead eggs!!!Good luck,
STRIKE ZONE

Run for you life rcl187.Obsessed is gonna be after you......He is the Dollie King.

I don't keep the dollies because I find they taste like garbage. What can you expect when they are constantly eating carcasses all winter. I know there has been a lot of concern over bull trout number across the boarder in the Okanagan and Kootenays. Do you know wether the dollies you are killing are bull trout or do you even have bull trout on the coast?

Sea-run dollies in Puget Sound streams and coastal streams (WA) are now considered bull trout. Recent genetic testing has shown that the old rule of resident char are bulls and sea-runs are dollies does not apply in Washington.

Bull trout are on the endangered species list so should be released unharmed. The reason why WDFW has not restricted take is because there is virtually no fishery for them. The limited fishery in the salt is C&R only, this is in the regs. I guarantee, however, if people start taking these guys home from rivers in any numbers, there will be restrictions, the Feds require it.

Bulls will sit behind spawning salmon to feed off eggs that drift downstream. These eggs are non-viable, they will not hatch. Only eggs buried in redds will hatch. In addition, after hatching, the baby fry remain in the gravel until their yolk sacs are absorbed before swimming up out of the gravel to begin juvenile rearing in streams. So any eggs drifting downstream, even if they did manage to get fertilized, have no chance. And bulls do not dig into the redds to get to eggs; never been observed.

Bulls do eat smolts in the salt, but they also feed on herring and surf smelt. In fact, nearshore congregations of bulls are strongly associated with surf smelt spawning beaches. The stories of these fish affecting the populations of salmon are just plain untrue.

Please release all of the bull trout/dollies you catch, if not for the resource, for the potential headaches that may result if areas are closed to protect them.

[ 04-06-2001: Message edited by: obsessed ]

EDIT - Yes I AM the DOLLIE KING Actually, I've been studying bulls in the Snohomish basin.

[ 04-06-2001: Message edited by: obsessed ]

Why kill them if you are not going to eat them? They have been in the rivers as long
as the salmon and steelhead and are getting to the point of becoming endangered as
well. It is not their fault that we have mismanaged steelhead and salmon runs to the
point of extinction. The amount of salmon/steelhead eggs eaten by dollies overall is
very small and is not affecting the runs. Overfishing and poor ocean survival is.

The big rainbows up in the alaska eat salmon/steelhead eggs as well but you dont
see people killing them. They are a natural part of the ecosystem and vital to its
overall health.

Sorry to jump on the pulpit but I have seen people on the Sauk catch a Dolly, kill it,
and throw it back in the river. As far as I am concerned a fish is a fish and they all
should be treated with some respect.

I'm not sure anybody mentioned killing dollies and not eating them. I don't think anyone should kill anything and throw it back-and that includes whitefish and suckers. As for there not being much of a fishery for the dollies that may be true in alot of areas but I've seen more than a few kept on the skagit. I've never kept a native steelhead and you don't always catch hatchery fish so when I need a fish for dinner I take what I can get. Up until a few minutes ago I always thought bull trout and dollies were two separate things-maybe future practices will have to change

I agreen royal. Its a natural part of the foodchain. Nuff said. It would be like lets kill everybody on welfare. What good are they (for those that just kill and toss).

[ 04-06-2001: Message edited by: Coho ]

Not just the bulls, but what about the suckers, carp, squawfish, whitefish, sculpins, and various other river dwellers that I see caught and *released* as Land Dwelling Animals?

I think we're all guilty of disposing of a fish or two in our careers.

Believe it not, all those fishies play an important role on the over-all health of any river.

Unless you're going to eat it, just let 'em go unharmed.

Parker

All whitefish and suckers must die !!!

If people are not keeping (killing) these fish, then how do their numbers get regulated in comparison to the salmon/steelhead we catch? Compare their predators (natural killing process) in the rivers compared to those of a salmon.

Both Dolly Varden and bull trout inhabitat Puget Sound and coastal rivers. Most fish biologists couldn't tell them apart, so you cannot tell which fish is listed as threatened under the ESA and which is not. They are wild, and just like native steelhead, they are not especially abundant. The fairly good fishing for them on the Skagit is due to the 20" size limit and the fact that anglers are releasing them instead of killing them all, as they used to.

If you don't need it, and if you can afford to go sport fishing - you don't need it, let it go. Keep hatchery fish to eat, and maybe wild salmon from the more abundant populations.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

You guys, check your regs pamphlet, page 56. "Wild steelhead and Dolly Varden/bull trout may only be kept where specifically authorized in the Special Rules." You can't keep or kill any except in a few Puget Sound rivers (Skagit, Sky) where their populations are solid. They're threatened or endangered elsewhere and whacking one is a federal offense. Get real, or lose your fisheries...

Release all dollies. Populations are not that good on the Sky, they are down from past levels. Numbers are ok on the Skagit system, but down from past levels. Lets not lose the Dolly runs also. They are all wild, so let em go. No hatchery to support them. thanks.

Let them go, carefully, guys. Dollies are not doing well. I recall reading some statistics by NMFS, I believe, which said that dollies inhabit only about %40 of the systems they once did. I believe this has to do with the fact that dollies are more sensitive to environmental distress than other salmonids, as well as attempts to eradicate them. With that in mind, we should all remember that not only is this species in trouble, it is a valuable indicator species that we need to have in the rivers. Please be kind to the dollies.

Hey, folks!

1. Dollies don't really taste all that great.

2. They're pretty aggressive biters, at least the first one out of a group, so they're not too hard to catch.

3. They are virtually indistinguishable from endangered bull trout, perhaps impossible to distinguish out in the field.

Why keep them? How many of you have had a marginal steelheading day on the Sauk or Skagit saved by catching a half dozen two to six pound dollies? Or even bigger than that?

Fish on...

Todd.

People that bonk dollies because they "eat eggs and smolts" are from the old school on fish ecology. These are the same people who's grandfather tried to kill an Orca Whale because they "eat people."

Everything in a river has a purpose, it took me along time to figure it out also, but we all need to realize if the steelhead populations drop to mismanagent/habitat there is no reason to take it out on the dollies.

- Save a trout, bonk a bass

Since I dont live in an area that supports dollies I dont catch them. If I do have the pleasure of catching a Dollie when I do fish rivers that support them I always release them.
The only fish I release into to the brush when I catch then are squawfish(nothern pikeminnow for the politcally correct) and smallmouth bass. Smallmouth are a non native species. Icatch a few in the South Santiam while fishing for summer steelhead. As for whitefsh, They are benificial to salmonoids. The smolts of slmon and steelhead feed on the eggs and fry of whitefish. Whitefish and suckers mainly feed on aquatic insects. They do feed on loose salmon and steelhead eggs when the oppurtunity arises. Steelhead and resisdent trout, Rainbows and cutthroats also feed on eggs and fry of salmon and steelhead. Do you see people killing trout because they are eggs eaters? No you dont.
Every fish has its place in a river system. What would happen to one species if another species is removed from the system. I dont think anyone has an answer for that. Im sure the result would not be very good the remaining species. Just think about that next time a pesty dollie, whitefish or sucker grabs your offering.

Release the Dollies!!!!! I personally will release them, and hell, I've had a blast in the past catching them. Have caught quite a few (and some very large ones at that) on a few coastal rivers that I know Bob frequents. It's funny that how in different parts of the country fish are considered so different. I know some friends from upper east coast that consider Dollies/Bull trout great fishing. Also some friends from Alaska feel the same. They put up a decent fight and I don't mind hitting one occasionally. Beats going fishless. Oh well, one man's junk is anothers treasure.

Folks:
Dolly Varden in the Puget Sound Distinct Population Segment (DPS) were listed as "threatened" under the ESA by USFWS earlier this year. They were listed under the similarity of appearance clause, as they look very similar to bull trout. However, WDFW, under USFWS guise, has been allowed to manage these fish since some of these populations are still healthy.

Bull trout and Dolly Varden to coexist in nearshore areas of the Puget Sound. Both Dollies and bull trout do eat a substantial number of salmon smolts as do sea-run cutts. In the Skagit it is CONSERVATIVE to assume that over 3 million anadromous smolts are consumed by char and sea-run cutts.

Although regulations may allow harvest in some areas, these native char species must survive for 4 to 6 years before they can spawn successfully. This long maturation period, coupled with their requirements of cold water (VERY COLD) for spawning and rearing areas, make them very susceptible to extinction.

They are a great fish to catch in both salt and freshwater. Until March, I had never caught one in the salt. Since then I have caught 13 char, between 12" and 24". Three of these were bull trout, and the rest Dollies (using the Haas Discriminant Method for identification).

Let's practice conservation now, so these fish will be around long after we are. As a bonus, there is little commercial value or tribal interest in these fish, which provides an extra value for sportsmen since our salmon and steelhead are hurting!

Tight lines.

[ 04-15-2001: Message edited by: FishPirate ]