I've heard that the Wind River run of springers usually continues to have late arriving fresh fish on into early June most seasons, despite dwindling numbers over the dam. True? I know the fishing off the mouth hasn't been as expected this year, likely due to a low Bonneville pool and reported concentrated Indian netting from the dam on up the Washington side toward the Wind. I have also heard that they have gotten past their netting quota. Has anyone seen evidence of netting activity in the Bonneville pool or elsewhere on the Columbia lately? Thanks.

RT

I witnessed netting last friday/saturday/
sunday along the washington side of the columbia,from the dam to stevenson.I didn't
see them pullin nets but seen the nets out in
the main river.My self and two fishin buddies
had a conversation with the checker at the ramp at wind river,the main question, was who
is keeping track of the indians harvest? And
where could we get those numbers? The guy side stepped the question and wouldn't answer
it.He wasn't releasing any info on that.Makes
a guy wonder just how many they actually harvest???.Good luck,
STRIKE ZONE


BAN ALL NETS!!!!! PERIOD

R.T. & StrikeZone:
From my experience in other parts of this State, you wont get a straight or honest answer anywhere about tribal harvests. WDFW doesnt truly know, and the tribes have too much to hide. NMFS doesnt really care, in spite of their professed charter, their role is only window dressing for the benefit of the large liberal votive block in the East Sound.
I've looked, but cannot find a segregated report of harvest records with sport fishery, tribal, commercial, and hatchery intakes itemized. The information may be too volatile for the State to release.
If this post sounds like I'm steamed, I'm not. Just fed up with the bull we're being expected to buy into.


[ 05-17-2001: Message edited by: 'Head hunter ]

Head Hunter, if you were a rock star, I would be waving my lighter in the air at the words just spoken.

I totally agree and no one knows sheeit, or they are pretending to not know, but I honestly don't think they ACTUALLY know the numbers harvested. Then you would have to take into account the dead carcasses on the shores as well in those numbers.

Hey Y'all:
Uhh... I useta be a rock star back in the uh 60's, man..... but nobody wasted time waving a lighter... D*** I miss those days. I guess it helps explain my memory loss, somewhat...
Yeah about the fish. I think we're losing the battle, and maybe the war too. No agency, even those who are charged with accounting for, and fair allocation of the resources is truly fulfilling their duties. The information is being spun in the back room before being released to the lay public. Us.
The issues are way too sensitive for the great unwashed masses(us) to cope with, so State and Federal agencies are spoonfeeding processed bites of data as they see fit, probably mostly to protect their own individual and agencys' a@#es.
Why would no itemized harvest records be offered to the public??? If the public saw the tribal harvest, commercial harvest, sport harvest, hatchery intake, for a given watershed and a given species all together, and started comparing "harvests", we'd revolt. Quit buying licenses, etc, maybe even all get together and got to Olympia (or DC) to make our voices heard. Just imagine a "million fisherman march"....Locke, Koenig and Associates would have to leave town or hide under their desks. Or something.
But here we are; sport fishermen, not a really cohesive or organized group. No real voice, and as individuals on the riverbank, an easy target, and easily deprived of our rights. AND the bottom of the food chain. Every larger entity feeds on us. Gear & tackle manufacturers, boat makers, government agencies, court systems, hospitality industries, all get their piece of our pocketbooks.
So, in terms of agency protection and participation, why are we not getting what we're paying for??? To date, no-one in the private sector has raised a loud enough ruckus for the loftier levels of government to hear. Maybe its time to change that...
This is starting to sound just like the 60's again man...... Pass that over here....

HH, I raised a very loud ruckus last spring and last fall (when the decisions were ready to come down for the Columbia springer allocations). It was done on these fishing BB's and elsewhere that I pleaded for a letter writing campaign to our congressmen and state gov.s to help us sportfishers get a fair share. It met with a very small amount of sportfisher effort. I did get a letter back from Oregon Senator Gordon Smith, that I posted on the BB's, indicating he would personally see that we got a fair shake from the NMFS vs NW States negotiations. Ya, right . And some Washington members who took the time to write their reps got generic politically neutral letters back from Governor Locke and one of the lady Senators, amounting to nothing. The Indians wound up with a 13% ESA fishing impact on the springers, the commercial netters got a 1.1% ESA impact, and us sportsman (that Senator Smith insured me he would see get a fair share) got 0.9%! The strongest 'voice' we have going for us is NSIA (Northwest Sportfishing Industry Association). They have put up the dollars to hire a couple DC lobbyists. But they are losing the battle. At this point I kind of like your idea of "The Million Fishermen March" on the Whitehouse. The only problem is that you would be very hardpressed to get even 100 of these appethtic sportfishers to a local rally - as I tried hard to do last spring in Cascade Locks. For every guy trying hard to get us somewhere there are 500 lazy guys that would rather complain and then do absolutely nothing that requires some effort. Cynical? Perhaps; but historically proven - so far. If we had gotten a couple thousand letters instead of a paltry few, that would have likely made a difference. But that seems to tough for most guys to take a few minutes to do. They reap what the sow! ... How about going back to the haybales and such into the nets, at least after they have gone over their far bigger quotas they somehow got, despite the 50/50 Treaty and Fed Court rulings? Any other ideas out there? ....

Also, anyone know about the numbers of late returning Wind fish? Thanks.

RT

All Right! My favorite subject in the world! Tribal Netters! I was wondering when somebody would bring the subject of tribal fisheries up again so that I could go off on one of my tirades, here goes: I can't stand tribal netters! I totally believe that they take way more than their quota every year, on every river they fish on. I also believe that the tribes are deliberately decieptfull when it comes to telling how many fish they net in any given year. It is also my opinion that the tribes are simply hiding behind treaty rights and heritage as a way to mask their own greed. These guys know no more about native heritage then I do. They go out and use modern methods to harvest fish, sell the fish to the Japanese, and then pat each other on the back and talk about how they are preserving their way of life, Give me a break! The only culture I see is one of government aid, casinos, fireworks, alchoholism, and raping our fish runs in the name of a dollar! I think the whole thing stinks! Just my .02.

Didn't you know

The Native Americans are a magical people, and their harvest has no impact on any resource....Yeah right.

-From the slaughter of elk on winter ranges.
-Over harvest of clams and oysters.
-Over harvest of crabs.
-THousands and thousands of lbs of wild steelhead gill netted every winter
-Fall chinook over harvest
-This Spring chinook fishery

The tribes are a commercial empire, hiding behind a heritage mask. It is like a cruel joke the keeps going, and going....

[ 05-17-2001: Message edited by: Mike K ]

Here is a link to the write your legislator for Oregon. I will Look for one for washington and lets get on this. I wrote the senators form oregon tonight asking them about these issues and the fact that there is a bill now that wants to stop clipping adipose fins on some columbia river stock and they want to treat hatchery fish just like wild fish.Let them spawn in the rivers. They are doign there best to destroy our fishing. Just so the tribes can have more. If they want the salmon give them whtever is left at the hatchery after they get what they need. There is no reason for netting of any river
write your legislator

Hereb is a place to e-mail and ***** to and tell them all what a bunch of ****en liars they are. http://www.nwifc.wa.gov
Notice how it has the .wa and .gov after it.
They are all in bed together butt****ing eachother and telling eachother how special they are! **** all of them!!!!
Peace Superfly

next time your down fishing salmon river i'll let the cop give you that speeding ticket, and rt how was fishing up on the upper quinault on april 6, 2001? not many people arond when the fishing is closed is there.

Upper Quinalt, Blueback? Who wittnessed me fishing there? Nobody! Remember, in both posts and e-mails some fishers say they fished one place to protect a zipper place they actually fished. Best be careful what you pop off about on here hence forth dude!

RT

For the 'fly.



Ahhhhhh, Reeeelax Guy.

I figured this would be a good model to go by in relation to Superfly's post. You can decide what group represents Satan and what group represents Saddam.

Blueback, I consider you a friend of Mine, I have no complaints with the way you guys run your fishing operations out there, and I by no means mean to offend you or letty or any of you guys up there, I am just so sick and tired of the special treatment. It was not me or any of us on these boards that ruined your ancestors way of life. We are all trying to improve the fishing for everyone, but when the columbia river tribes abuse the resource like they are by not keeping accurate track of fish caught and not wanting to clip the fish they release and so on , it makes me wonder how they can cal them selves the protectors of the land and so on. I do owe you one for not getting that ticket that day, but put yourself in a whiteboy sportsmans shoes like mine and go fish some place when the nets are in and see what a difference it makes, and then see that they are only getting a buck a pound for the fish. I know it is hardly worth there time to net as well. well anyways take care and e-mail me at home or give me a call, you have my number.
Peace Superfly

Blue Back and Superfly This may make some of you made,being that I'm not a regular on here.But I have some very definite opions about the entire tribal issue
First off I give the utmost respect to the Indian heritage,for they in thier own right are a great people.But if the issue is truly heritage,then why are'nt they using the methods thier fore fathers used to harvest the fish(i.e. hand made nets,hand dug out canoes and the like)?
I tend to believe that it is not really an issue of heritage when you are harvesting these so called native resources with non-native materials.
I drive down the Columbia at least twice a week for work and have seen first hand the matterials used by the tribes for harvesting the fish.To me these appear to those material(i.e. nylon nets,fiberglas and aluminum boats,etc etc)invented after the era of the great indian nations of this country.
If you choose to hide behind what your heritage as seems to be the case then you should follow the the methods your Great fore fathers used.
Make your own nets of natural materials,build your own boats of natural materials,and I will be the first to stand with you for your rights.
But I will not stand to be cheated of my oppurtunities(and rights)by other human beings that do not stand behind what they preach.