Heard from a member of the muckleshoot tribe that today(6/8)the nets are going into the white(stuck)river,to target native summer steelhead,what kind of bull*hit is that?we don't even get a c&r season on these fish till oct.1,also good timeing on the states part let them put there nets in the river when it is full of native spring chinook!!!!
why do we put up with this kinda crap?


FISH ON!!!

NETS in the White! Isn't this one of the reasons we can't fish Puget Sound to protect the Endangered White River Spring Chinook. Haven't we spent thousands of dollars trying to rebuild this stock?

The reason is that they have a salmon hatchery and they're cranking the steelhead out of it. They get tons of salmon back to it as well. Crappy part is that it still isn't opened up for the rest of us.

Take the steelhead out of the trap after they return to the trap, and keep the friggin nets out of the rivers. Nets are unselective and a grossly irresponsible way of fishing.

Am I allowed to state my opinions on this? I'm just asking because the last time we had a thread about netting, Potter got pissed off and "quit" the board and then we had to read a thread about racism. We were labeled as a bunch of Racists, and the guy who origionally put the post on the board felt so uncomfortable about how heated the arguements were getting that he felt he had no other alternative than to delete the entire thread. So I'm just checking, is this a test? Got to be reeeeal carefull when it comes to the whole "Indian Thing".

this is a bunch of b. s. just like when they close the river at the end of feb.the mucks are up above r street.catching and keeping as long as they feel like it basicaly.we should be able to at least catch and release as long as they are fishing.as for summer steelhead ive never caught one in the stuck but legally id have to release that too. so why the heck cant we catch and release if they are catching and killing?

As you probably know they are also netting summer fish in the Green. They seem to think they own the rivers and can do anything they like!

yea they net up pretty much net up all the hatchery winter runs that we pay for with our license fees. then we are left to catch and release wild fish.although i enjoy hooking and playing these fish id like to have some fish i can bonk once in a while.the summer run on the green used to be phenominal before the mucks got their grubby paws on them.when there is only a return of 1000 fish out of 80,000 planted and the skykomishis doing so much better theres something wrong

A pretty interesting point, to say the least. Why DON'T the indians just take the fish out of the trap at the hatchery? Why must they insist on using a method as destructive and as outdated as netting when the4y could just as effectively harvest fish by waiting until they get into the hatchery trap and then harvesting them? Is this something that the great tribal leaders of this state have somehow overlooked? Do you guys think that maybe Mike K has stumbled on to something that is going to change the face of tribal fishing as we know it? Maybe the truth is something more along the lines of that the indians are and always have been well aware of the fact that there are alternatives to throwing nets in our rivers.... But, they have treaty rights, and what better way to "Rub our noses in it" than to net just because they can. Any clarification on thi would be great. Nativepride? Keta? Salmonbelly? Potter? maybe you guys could give us a reason why waiting until the fish have been trapped wouldn't be feasible. Is there a legitamite reason, or is this just the tribal way of paying us back for smallpox?

That is sick. There is no excuse for that kind of misuse of our fish. Many of the Indians i talked to on the columbia this spring dont even buy fishing licenses, they just take huge numbers of native fish that we all pay for to restore.

as far as i know they don't produce any summer steelhead a the muck hatchery on the white river,they only do chinook and coho,and i'm pretty sure they don't get back a very large number of springers,the tribal member that i talked to said he was putting in his net to target native summer steelhead ,i have have a feeling were taking it in the rear again!!!!


FISH ON!!!

ZoZo,
The idea of selective fishing with traps has been kicked around for some time. The Canadians are doing testing on the Fraser River and WDFW has a floating trap they are testing on the Skagit River. The fish ladders on dams would be an easy conversion to selective fish trapping. From what I have read, the tribes have rejected this harvest method. I have never heard from them exactly why they reject it, but I think it has to do with the ownership of the catch. A tribal member can put together a set gillnet on a low budget and catch fish for which he gets the money. If you harvest the fish in an expensive trap, which would be financed by the tribe and manned by a few, or harvested the fish at the hatchery, who would get paid for the fish? The only fair thing to do would be divide the fish and money from sold fish between all tribal members. Evidently they don't want to do this. IMHO this is unfortunate becuase we need selective harvest and trapping with communal distribution is more in line with their traditional culture.
One more thought on harvesting salmon at the hatchery, the farther up the river the fish get, the lower in quality table fare it becomes.

Keta: You have a point with the whole communal catch thing. Traditionally, the tribes (pacific northwest, anyway) have lived a communal type lifestyle, with a few hunters or fishermen doing all of the harvesting and the catch being divided up amongst the entire tribe. Here lies the problem: If traditionally the tribes lived communally, then way do they have a problem with that same lifestyle now. After all isn't "tradition and heritage" one of the main buzz phrases for the tribes when it comes to defending the means by which they harvest fish and game? If this is true, then why do the tribes have a problem with doing what is actually more in line with tradition than what they ar doing right now? What is more important? Is it the ancient ways of the tribes,many working together for the good of the entire tribe? Or is the whole tradition thing just a front, something easier and more nobel sounding than "Hey, the Japenese are giving me $10.00 a pound for these eggs. Go get your own net! It certainly brings an interesting thought. If we as sportsmen continue to question the tribes in their fishing and hunting practices eventually they will be forced to give an honest answer as to why they are doing the things they're doing. Eventually they will be forced to admitt that "culture" has nothing to do with it. They'll be forced to admitt that the only reason that the nets are there is in the name of a few dollars, and that's fine, just as long as they don't sit back and talk about how nobel a thing tribal netting is and how splendid it is that the y are able to continue to realize this "tradition".

This is a question for my native american friends. How much money do the tribes bring in anually> Does anybody have an idea? Since reading the posts it sounds like the reason the nets are being thrown is hard cash for the tribes. Anybody ever thought of just paying the tribes off to keep the nets out? Might be a bad idea and this just might piss some people off but at this point I would be ready to try anything to keep are runs from being raped by nets.....

If I'm not mistaken, the government as well as some special interest groups have raised the question simply paying the tribes to not net...... The tribes responded with a polite yet firm "F**k You". They hold the position that the netting isn't simply about money, that it's part of what defines who they are. I tend to disagree. I do think that it is about money for most tribal netters, I also believe that a little bit of why the tribes refuse to take the nets out no matter what is that they have treaty rights and they are going to exercise those rights at all costs. Even if it means destroying the very thing that defines the Pacific Nothwest Tribes as a people. As long as we're talking about treaty rights........ We could force the Tribes to the bargaining table if we could ever elect someone with the balls to do it. If congress can re- interperet the constitution of our United States, then it can certainly re-interperet a few lousy treaties. These treaties, like all legal documents, were made to be re-negotiated. Let's elect somebody to office who will look into this and take some action. We as sportsmen have two options where tribal netting is concerned; We can ***** on this BB about it and do nothing, or we can ***** on this BB and then go do something about it. Write your congressman, join a special interest group, hell, even sneaking down to the river and floating hay bales or rail road ties into the nets shows some kind of action on our part (This is illegal and likely to get you shot....Do it at your own risk) If we don't do SOMETHING, we won't have any body to blame but ourselves.

LittleZoZo, Your idea is not a bad one, but a old one. This is brought up 3to 4 times a year and gets no where. The sportsmen haven't been able to unite enough participation to do anything. As for the natives if you think about it, why would they want to negotiate anything. They like it just the way it is. On another post it was said that the natives didn't even buy a license. That's because they don't have to.
What it boils down to is you have the right
to try your idea, but a dime aginst a dollar it'll end up the same way. I'm not really a pessimist it just that I believe in reality.
Your intentions are good. Tight lines,
The Duck (Jim Marquis)

Duck in the fog: You're probably right. I just had to throw it out there, just in case.

I agree with many of the posts here and like some of the solution ideas for the way netting has gotten grossly out of hand and beyond fairness or lawfulness. A couple points I will add to this thread. - Just as with the Columbia River Treaties and Judge Belloni Fed. Court review mandates that the fish be split evenly 50/50, so to has the Washington state Treaties and Fed. Court review mandates by Judge Boldt called for the fish deemed harvestable to be split evenly 50/50. As with the Col. Tribes getting 6 1/2 times the spring chinook harvest that the non-Indians got (commercial and sporties combined), it is obvious that in many rivers the Tribes of NW Washington are also getting many more times the amount of fish which are controversially deemed harvestable by someone and only for the Indians (White River and many others examples). How does this fit in with the signed Treaties and Federal Court review mandates? IT DOESN'T! - The other point I want to emphasize (and this is nothing new from me) is to keep writing your congressmen and state reps about these gross unfairnesses, in big numbers of people. We don't have to cry out any longer about the unfairness of the Boldt and Belloni even split of fish decisions; we HAVE TO cry out loudly about the Indians unethically and unlawfully getting much more than 50% of the harvest, seemingly region wide now! I also strongly urge you to become members of NSIA (Northwest Sportfishing Industry Association), and/or WSA (Wild Steelhead Coalition - accessed in P.P. forums), and/or other respected sportfishing advocacy entities, such as The Associaltion of NW Steelheaders, that are well organized with legal representatives that have a better chance at getting something positive done in our favor. By writing your reps and joining these organizations at very low yearly membership dues (the best spent money you could ever do for your fishing opportunity and success; many times more effective than buying another overpriced rod), we CAN AND WILL get closer to where we deserve to! Get after it people.

RT

Before you get to upset, do you know who is paying for the summer run program on the green right now? The Muckleshoots!!!! Thats right the state stopped funding it several years ago. They take around 100 fish from the system during the summer according to the numbers. We take far more and they are paying. Piss them off and we may have none. Its time to start working together guys.

Nets? What nets? Nets are not listed as legal gear for the Muckleshoot fishery on the White (Stuck) River this summer. The Tribe is authorized to take up to 82 chinook for ceremonial and personal use by hook and line and a traditional "fish drive." This is understood as dip nets or spear fishing by the state and federal agencies that agreed with it.

The White River does not have a significant summer steelhead run, and no one interested in actually catching fish would likely be targeting them. The chinook run is just getting under way; a few have been passed into the upper river, and the hatchery has taken a couple marked adults for its broodstock. BTW, the hatchery raises chinook, no steelhead. The hatchery is operated and funded by the Muckleshoot Tribe.

The information given to Curt about nets going in may have been accurate, but that doesn't make the proposed action legal.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.