Being primarily a NW Oregon fisherman, where boobdoggin the bigger rivers of the Cascades isn't common as it is on the Washington Cascade salmon & steelhead rivers, I am still learning the intracacies of this WA way to fish larger rivers. It's both fun and productive (especially for the flossers that use 5 ft. leaders - should have saved that for the WA vs OR thread? ). Anyway, I have been doing more of this on the NF Lewis and Cowlitz with my WA friends the last couple years and I'm enjoying it. For summer and winter steelhead (and silvers too) their most popular rigup for sidedrifting is a very long leader with two size 4 hooks tied on with a real small corkie or cheater betweem them. This is usually drifted out and up from the drifting boat using just enough slinky lead to keep the rig tapping bottom every few feet in the prime slots. The fish seem to almost hook themselves. Eggs are most often used along with the corky; sometimes shrimptails or just plain with a little scent. My approach, when I've had good eggs along, is to use a single size 2 hook (size 1 with colored water and larger plastics) and jam a toothpick in the corky and snug it up against the small egg cluster. And I only use about a 3 ft. leader rather than a 4 ft. or 5 ft. leaders so common up there. When I've had good bait along I seem to do alright with the single hook. And I have always used that for many years when driftfishing from the bank or an anchored boat. So, what's up with the double size 4's, and what is the advantage for 'doggin the fish this way? I prefer the wider gap of the larger single hook so when a fish grabs my rig the chances of a better hookup are there in my opinion. The guys I have fished with are hooking the fish in the mouth the few times I've done this; and would only keep a properly hooked fish for sure, as that's the way they are. However, I wonder if this riggup gained popularity because for fish that do get flossed the upper of the double hooks isn't blocked from a good stick and hookup outside the jaw area? Whereas with a single hook the corky could more often bounce the single hook away from a flossed fish's outside jaw area? I'm honestly not being accusatory, I just don't see an otherwise advantage of double smaller hooks. If a fish grabs a single hook rig in it's mouth, those that know the feel of a pickup will hook the fish, and with a deeper/wider hook set for better holding power. ... Just an early observational opinion from me - and I wanted some feedback about this method. Thanks guys. - RT

RT, I don't use the long leaders, mine are about 3' long. I do use the double hook setup with a cheater. I feel the hook above the cheater works better. With the cheater below the hook it won't bounce it away on the hook set,(as was your thought) also that bottom hook has saved the day a few times. The hook size I use depends on the line size, #4's for 6 & 8lb, #2's for 10lb test. I very seldom get into any heaver line.

Fishhead5

PS The pink worm worked for me tuesday

Both, #2 up top with a #4 stinger. Seems to work for me.

I've always used the double #2.But last year
I switched to the double #4.Both work good.I
use that setup on all rivers for steelies,not just the cow or lewis.Good luck,
STRIKE ZONE

Personally, I'm siding with RT, I have used both tactics many times. I've noticed with a single size #4 you have a lower % of hookups. Yet adding the second hook, jumps your odds up a bit (hookup ratio) having the "stinger" hook, there are many times you have the stinger hook save you. But being lazy, I've honestly had as good as if not better hookup-land ratio on a single size #2 with 8 pound ultragreen leader about 4-5 feet long. The only time I see the double hook as a advantage is if you want to add color. But with good bright eggs, even then I think it is more a mental than anything.

In my opinion the offset of the hook is more important than the size of the hook. Which leads to why a single #2 is better than a single #4. Perhaps using two #4's takes the advantage away of a single #2's offset.
Keith

ReelTruth, How are you flossing fish when the line and bait are dragging behind the weight? Assuming a steelie is facing upstream, in this instance there is only a tiny angle to intersect the fish in its mouth with the leader (and this angle will barely change even if the leader is doubled, tripled etc.). Real Cowlitz flossers driftfish (not 'dog or sidedrift) with a MINIMUM 15 foot leader. From my experience a five foot leader is necessary, esp. during the summertime, to achieve the necessary neutral bouancy with straight bait. I often use a single #4 on a 5-foot 6lb leader with eggs when it gets low. Because it lacks a drift bobber, the extra leader length keeps the bait riding in the zone.

I think part of the reasons this set-up is used , is that it was originated by a few guides to increase their hook-up ratio for the Cracker Clients,also the reason most fish a 1141# and spinning reel...the fish almost hooks them selves.....

My personal preference is a single 2# 4-5' leader and good eggs......Os

RT
I believe its related to the fact that the guides want more fish landed! Alot of rookie fisherman never even know the bite happened. This double hook setup has a better chance of hook up and land for people who dont know the "bite". Its like it was said before. The long leader and the slow rod combined with the double hook gives the angler longer to feel the fish before the fish feels the angler. Thats also why they fish upstream at an angle. The boat hooks the fish and sets the hook!. Thats Boondogging! In fact many boondog boats place the most inexperienced anglers on the bow so there dragging. No skill required except to cast!
Side drifting is using the same type of gear but no angle upstream. Mostly the more experienced fisherman prefer to side drift. You feel the bite before the boat sets the hook or the fish feels you. And you get to set the hook! I prefer to sidedrift and so do alot of my experienced friends.

Thats my .02

Bob D

I've only recently had the opportunity to do some boondoging (from a sled) so I can't say much about why the two-hook setup is so popular aside from the fact it probably does help inexperienced anglers hook fish. But it doesn't make it failsafe for the newbie. At least it hasn't in my case.

I will say that a lot of the guides up on our north sound rivers won't use this setup during the spring nate seasons (remember those?) - even on the rivers that are open for bait.

Anyway, what do our purists object to about fishing with the 1141 and a spinning reel? What's a better setup for casting very very light weights and tiny baits and still having a good feel for the bottom?

I also think casting slightly upstream has more to do with keeping these tiny slinkies on the bottom and the bait drifting downstream than it does using the boat to set the hook.

Anyway, I'm sure this wasn't supposed to be a "whose is bigger" type thread bashing one style of fishing over another. Use whatever works.

Bruce

RT,

Good to see you're sticking to the 3 ft. leader. That way it shouldn't be too tough to outfish you on Floatilla III

RT, I go a little against the grain on this one, too. Number 2 is the smallest hook I feel comfortable with, I just think the bite (bight?) of a number 4 is too small, and can pull out easier. I prefer a single number 1 VMC or Gamakatsu, and use them about 90% of the time. I just seem to lose twice as many hooks with the double rigs. My partner uses long leaders, I don't; I use yarn in my egg loop, he doesn't; I peg my corkies, he never does; he uses spinning reels, I use mainly baitcasters...we catch about the same number of fish, usually .
Greg
Ps....Can I go with you the next time you go boobdoggin?

[ 06-28-2001: Message edited by: greg ]

No. 4 hook, teensy bit of egg and a little yarn, 18 inch leader (8-10 lb fluorocarbon). In Alaska on the Situk for spring steelhead the top guides in the low water conditions often use blue pearly corkies and 8-12 inch leaders.

Interesting variety of opinions. I do see from Ho's post that with the common upstream angle of the longer leaders that flossing isn't an issue here, as it often is when intentionally driftfishing from a stationary postion with super long leaders. As I said, none of my friends using the 4' to 5' leaders have been hooking fish outside the jaw. Friend and part-time Washington guide Jerry Shipe and also friend Jeff Whitehead (and you too Dan and Os a couple times ) have shown me the Washington big river techs for boondogging (and side drifting too, but I already do this on occassion in Oregon) - thanks guys. While I have done a significant amount of it years ago up on AK's Kenai River, it's been a fun change of style to fish this way occassionally the last couple years. The 2 things I've learned the last 2 weeks is to go ahead and use the long leaders, which I will start doing next trip out (in plenty of time to tune up for Floatilla III ) - and to use good eggs; DUH! But I'm tapped out! I'll scroung some up before #III. ... BTW Keith, I mentioned to the guys today what a good day you 3 had a few days ago and one of them recognized your name. He says he's seen you put on fish catchin clinics on the Washougal, so now I believe your sheeyat . Better come and help your WA bros on #III. It could be on the Cow, or Lewis. If it's the latter, Os and 'Yall will still be 'on the cow'. .



RT

Well, all is fun RT, I had thought you'd been a boondogger all your life. Flotilla III, you can count on it!! Who is it you know that happens to know me, that I've run into on the washougal?

Hey K, I've only been a long time moondogger . ... It was Gizmo Man - Walter P., president of ... oh crap, I forget ... a WA flyfishing organization - maybe either Skamania Flyfishers Assoc. or Washington Flyfisher Assoc. ... he throws a mean spey rod cast on the Washougal now and then. ... BTW, feeling much better tonight!!! - Steve