So I'm out fishing tonight in peace and solitude. No one else around, at least as far as the eye can see. About this time 4 bozos come screeming up the river in their sled, park it just outside my casting distance and just upriver, and proceed to fish directly over me and through the relatively small section of entire river that I had thought about moving through. What a bunch of crap. Loosers -Old Chum

Hey Chum, let me get this straight - you were anchored and fishing the water out from your boat and these guys (or this guide?) boondogged or backtrolled right thru your water while you were trying to fish, so that you had to wait for them to go away? The general media and Dept.'s of F&W aren't doing enough to educate fishermen to proper river etiquette! Likely even lacking in enforcable "rules of fishing etiquette" that is overdue? These internet fishing websites are different. There is more than education here about these issues. There is proper blame in some instances. I don't believe in the 'don't squeal' syndrome that's outdated anymore. Let's get after the sh*theads out there. Post their boat numbers and descriptions on here, and give the same to fish and game officers. Enough complaints can put an unscrupulous guide out of biz. And it can put a rep on a regular river abuser to the point of getting enough negative feedback thrown at them from others on the river that it may clean up their act. Get the boat numbers, and take care of biz! ... I also suggest to start carrying a camcorder along to common problem areas. Turn on the cam as an etiquette infraction is about to occur and speak a proper tactful warning not to improperly encroach on your spot (with cam out of view picking up your words of warning). If they disregard your proper action then bring the cam up and film them in the act. This may stop them. If not, then show it to the proper authorities along with the boat numbers. If they threaten you on cam they are cooked. If they try to get you or your camera I would pull a handgun on them and yell a warning with the cam going. You have properly won and shown some @$$holes we aren't going to take it anymore. It's legal in Oregon to carry a concealed firearm while fishing. I don't know about Washington - but they may have also. I feel very uneasy about making such a suggestion, but I have had it with inconsiderate river bandits ruining fishing for others - and if the states don't have the nads to do the right thing about cleaning up this growing problem then maybe the time has arrived to step back a century or so and make the lowlife bandits conform?!? Anyone for starting a vigilante river "cleanup" crew? Just curious. That's all.

[ 07-03-2001: Message edited by: RT 1 ]

You may legally carry a firearm while on a hunting or fishing trip in Washington state. I would suggest that you get a concealed weapons license if you choose to do so, it will prevent any action against you if you are in your vehicle, etc... Having said that, I would never suggest pulling or pointing a firearm at another human unless you are ready and willing to pull the trigger(think about it).
I cannot believe the etiquette out there. I don't want to point fingers at gear fisherman, but they are almost always the ones that tromp up and start plunking right below me when I am fishing a hole or slot. Can you not see that I am flyfishing and need a little room to operate, can you not wait until I move through a spot?!
I agree that this site is a great forum to discuss issues, and perhaps some of the newbies will learn some etiquette. It takes a village to raise a fisherman!

One issue that does come to mind is that when you do start snitchin next thing you know because the chicken s***s get so scared when you confront them that they'll start screwing with your trailers or truck.. I know at one point in time I wanted to go up and freedrift the hoh but after talking to a couple of dudes about it I realized that wouldn't be to cool. There are sled rivers, and driftboat rivers. But when you're on a sled river and certain sleds think they own it just do as RT said and grab boat #'s and post them on here, it would be kind of fun to know who the real *****s are out there.

Pulling a gun on anyone is BAD NEWS! All that will do is inflame tempers until someone blows up and does something real foolish. No fish, I repeat, No fish is worth getting shot over. Some of these bozos don't even know what they have done; yet other knows full well what the game is. The trouble with the situation is that no one has broken any laws by doing what these guys did to you!

Etiquette, now that a whole different ball game. Like it has been said, the best thing to do is TALK to these jerks first, if that doesn't get the problem resolved, then get their boat numbers, and boat make and post it on this BB. If it's a guide boat that doing it, report it to the local game officer. He can't do a whole lot about it either, but he can make life a little more miserable for the guide, i.e. check his entire boat for hidden fish (little things along that line) when he comes in each time.

If it was guide, little things like that will make his clients think twice about going fishing with him again. Sometimes, just putting the old note on the jerks windshield will get the job done. He (the jerk) knows that you know what rig he is now driving, and the old "fear" takes hold. He knows that 2 flat tires is real bad news. No one really likes leaving their boat alone to get 2 tires repaired. I am not saying to do this, but its a lot better then pointing a gun at someone.

Every time I see a fisherman carrying a gun on his side when he is out fishing in places like the Cowlitz, I say to myself, there is one real insecure screwed up JERK! I go out of my way NOT to give him any help!! If he was fishing in the L.A. River, that may be different story. One thing we don't want to do is to turn our fishing areas into a "war zones".

Cowlitzfisherman,

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

Hi,

Sorry to hear about your experience, and I like most of the ideas that RT brought up, except for bringing the handgun into plain view. I always carry a handgun, fishing, hunting, shopping and to and from work, (I work in a bank, can't carry there.) but not at work. The handgun should only come in to play when there is a threat to your life, or someone elses. Actual threat, not just words.

Bob, those of us who carry concealed do so for a number of reasons, and some may be insecure, you're right, but most folks realize that the police are not everywhere, and you need to take responsibility for your own safety, and the safety of others. I have only drawn my pistol twice in 12 years. No shots were fired, and the other guy in both situations walked away, in handcuffs. I will always carry.

Now then, post the boat numbers of these a-holes so we can put some heat on them. Be kind and courteous and be a good example to the kids.

Andy

any type of harassement on the river is illegal.if you carry a cell phone,call the dept of game,the fine is 250.00 and will usually straighten the asshole up for future fishing trips.a freind of mine was being harassed and that is what the warden issued the other guy.scott

I'll keep your suggestions in mind in the future. Given that there were four of them in their boat, drinkin beer, with their dog... and there was only one of me, I opted to just try to forget about it. After they left it was peaceful again. -Old Chum

Andy,

I don't have a "big" problem with the guy who has a permit to carry his "concealed" weapon, but his weapon should remained "concealed".

Obviously he must have a good reason (i.e. you) to have the need to carry a weapon from time to time. My problem is with the nimrod cowboy who hast to "strap" his weapon on his side of his hip, or wears it around his chest to show everybody that he is a real bad dude!
I still believe, If your not hunting, then why the need for the gun when you are fishing? I have been fishing all my life, and never have I had the need to use a handgun on anyone when I was fishing.

I've gone nose to nose with a few guys, and even that didn't really solve our disputed fishing problems. I do know one thing, when you pull a gun on somebody, you may be the guy that ends up going to jail! Apparently, in your case, you got the "bad" guy.

I know you may have your reasons to carry your gun, but I still think when a guy goes fishing he should leave his heat at home or in his car. Sorry, It's just the way I feel!
When I was a guide, I had one rule that applied to all my clients. That rule was; NO GUNS ALLOWED ON THE BOAT! Bring a gun, stay on shore!

As far as it being illegal to do what these clowns did, I would first read what the RCW's say and make up your own mind. Personally, I think it would be an improper use of that law! If someone else knows a different RCW or "law" that was broken, Please let me know what it is. Remember, all fishermen have the same opportunity to equal "pursuit" of their game or fish.

RCW 77.15.210
Obstructing the taking of fish or wildlife -- Penalty.

(1) A person is guilty of obstructing the taking of fish or wildlife if the
person:

(a) Harasses, drives, or disturbs fish or wildlife with the intent of
disrupting lawful pursuit or taking thereof; or

(b) Harasses, intimidates, or interferes with an individual engaged in the lawful taking of fish or wildlife or lawful predator control with the intent of disrupting lawful pursuit or taking thereof.

(2) Obstructing the taking of fish or wildlife is a gross misdemeanor.

(3) It is an affirmative defense to a prosecution for obstructing the taking of fish or wildlife that the person charged was:

(a) Interfering with a person engaged in hunting outside the legally established hunting season; or

(b) Preventing or attempting to prevent unauthorized trespass on
private property.

(4) The person raising a defense under subsection (3) of this section has the burden of proof by a preponderance of the evidence.

Cowlitzfisherman,

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????


[ 07-03-2001: Message edited by: cowlitzfisherman ]

I had a problem with some shmuck pulling plugs down through a hole I was fishing from the bank. He did this 3 evenings in a row. On each occassion there were some nasty words exchanged. This guy doesnt fish that paticular river anymore, I guess after 6 flat tires and a missing boat trailer he had just better stay home. Im not saying who flattened his tires, and I have no idea who unhooked his boat trailer and puched it over a hill. Im sure t was some that was a little miffed at that guys lack of etiquette.

Howdy Bob,

I absolutely agree with you on the concealment issue! Don't let them know ya have one as it may escalate the issue. It is only a last resort. No more cowboys needed out there.

I always take any opportunity to pot a coyote, and have taken 3 with my little pistol while doing something other than hunting. A .40 S&W works great at under 25 yards. I also have taken grouse, and one blacktail (.44mag) while "fishing." I am always hunting.

Both of my run-ins with bad guys were work related (prior to banking) and so I had the law on my side. Maybe we'll run into each other sometime and I can tell you the stories over a beer. They are actually quite entertaining, at least now.

As to your choice not to carry, no problem with that, either. To each their own. If I ever fish with you on your boat, it will stay on shore.

My whole point was to exercise caution at all times. We are on the same side of the issue. Do whatever we can to get the a-holes in line.

Take care,
Andy

Is this what our fishing has come down to? It's a sorry state of affairs if it has come down to the above.

Hey, hey, hey .... Cowfish and Andy M, go back and re-read my post. I said to use a video cam to film an infraction in process and in the event that brought a physical affront toward him to have a handgun ready and willing to properly defend himself, if they were that stupid and crazy. Wouldn't you bring it out if 4 guys and a dog wrongly came at you when by yourself with nobody around to wittness and help the situation? That's what I described in my post. To read your posts makes it sound as if I said to wear a gun in a holster or use it to begin with - NOT! I get frustrated with misinterpreted or outright misread/misquoted posts. Please people, properly read and understand a post before you directly reply to it. Thanks. - RT

"Hey you F*&%$r!", would not be one of the first phrases I would choose to use. Assume they don't know any better, and try to teach them the right way. If they then respond with some version of the above sentence, get their boat number and description and let us know.

Some folks started cutting in line in kindergarten, and they never learned.

At what point are you too close to another fisherman? I have been combat fishing for pinks on the Skagit where my neighbors were within spitting distance and we all got along just fine. My guess is that it would have something to do with the style you were using and if it was compatible with the style of others fishing around you.

A bank fisherman generally covers water at a slower pace than folks in a boat. Does a lone bank fisherman have the right to call "DIBBS" on a 150' stretch of river? The guys in the boat shouldn't have corked him like that, but what point is acceptable? I would like to know so that I don't upset someone as it takes away from my fishing time.

Thanks, Andy

Hi RT,

I meant no ill will in my posts. I agree with you on going "fully dressed" whenever I am fishing. I would only show it as a last resort, and then I'd also be ready to immediately put it into action, god forbid. I didn't read that urgency in your post. I am sorry if I misinterpretted it.
I just disagreed with that part as I understood it. Nothing personal. We all have opinions and unfortunately because we are typing instead of talking, there is a lot of room for misinterprettation

I also made no referrence to YOU wearing a gun in the open, I was just stating my "fashion sense" on handgun carry techniques.

Having drawn down on someone twice makes you think a lot about being kinder and gentler. Always look for the way out.

Take care and don't catch all of our fish. Ya Orygunner.

Hi RT, One more thought. Is your name Bob? Cowlitz's name is Bob, so when I respond to him, I call him Bob as it is shorter than cowlitzfisherman. That may have caused further confusion. Andy

RT's first name is Steve. However, this doesn't mean that he might not have been confused by the Bob thing. Don't wanna get into that one, though. Might be kids around.

I've left fishing holes in the past when trolls moved in openly packing heat. If that is what they wanted then great, they got it. There's plenty enough river out there for me to have to risk my life over it.

Here's a suggestion.... carry a couple of golf balls with ya.... If you can hit them with one they are to close....keep in mind the occasional drifter is going to happen and if they move on just let them be.... This idea really works on wetbikers while trolling....keep in mind that you really need to lead the bikers....just some pointers here.....

Absolutely on the money, fobbman! Always look for a way out.

So how close is too close. Is it a judgement call by individual? It sounds like corking can be pretty blatant like the first example, but what about other instances.

I was fishing just below the barrier dam the other day and nobody was within 50 yards either way. I put on a 2 oz weight and started fishing the far bank side. Some guy worked his way up from downstream and gave me a pissy look when he saw all of the water that I was covering, and after I had hooked his line. Was I in the wrong, or did he "cork" me? I was there first, covering water on both sides of the river. I told him that there was plenty of room up above me, with a smile, and he just gave me another pissy look. Hooked him two more times before he moved upstream. Was I wrong? Let me know.

And if he was wrong, I knew I should'a dropped him! (just kidding)

Andy

RT,

You are taking this issue way to personal! You asked me, and Andy M; wouldn't you bring it out if 4 guys and a dog wrongly came at you when by yourself with nobody around to witness and help the situation? My answer is NO!

Maybe Andy M may feel different, but my answer is still NO! None of this was meant to make you look bad, it was just meant to make people "THINK" before they take a giant "LEAP"!

I don't think that a person should pull a weapon on another person just because he MAY perceive that he may possibly be getting ready to fight. How many cases do you know where a boat load of fishermen beat the hell out of another single fishermen?

THEY ARE FAR AND FEW! Like I said earlier, showing a weapon only adds acceleration to an already bad event.

I never forget a face, but names are something else! Sooner or later, if I put my mind to it, I will fine out who those people were, and one, by one, will TALK to each one of them in a way that they will not forget, but fully understand!

So stay cool RT, we are not mad at your posting!

Cowlitzfisherman


Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????