At considerable risk, I'll stick my nose into this discussion, perhaps to add a different perspective.

I don't fish the Skokomish River but if I recall, isn't that the river where Tacoma City Light illegally built a hydropower project on the North Fork, in the middle of the Skokomish Indian Reservation (the Cushman Hydro Project)? Isn't that the project that was built without any fish ladders? Isn't that the project that has been operating illegally (i.e. without a Federal license) for the past 75 years with no measures to protect salmon and steelhead? Isn't it Tacoma City Light that continues to thumb it's nose at the Tribe and their legitamate concerns regarding how they (Tacoma) illegally took their land for their project? Isn't it Tacoma City Light that is raking in a ton of cash from this project but the tribe continues to get nothing in return even though the project is located on Skokomish Tribal land?

This injustice occurred many years ago but the impacts to the tribe and the fish continues to this day. Why hasn't the Federal government taken any action against Tacoma for this? What affect does this situation, and it's lack of resolution, contribute to the bad feelings on the part of the Skokomish tribe?

None of these problems justifies the concerns expressed on this thread (e.g., snagging, trespassing, potential violence, overfishing, excessive netting, inconsideration behavior, etc). However, the tribal members live in the shadow of a continuing insult to their reservation, the river, and the fish. It's very unfortunate they seem to be taking out their frustrations on legitimate sport anglers. But from their view, it is our Federal government's lack of corrective action that has caused this situation. To some extent, they are not wrong.

But I will emphasize that this does NOT excuse their behavior. It only helps explain it. So, instead of pointing fingers at each other, sport anglers and tribal members should collectivily focus their anger at another source for the problems on the Skokomish River - Tacoma City Light.

Coho', you may have a valid point to some degree - I don't know the TCL situation there. But it is in no way an excuse for Tribal members to abuse fish runs and sportanglers! ...

Great post Littlezozo!

RT

You've all found yourself one nasty situation. I can't believe the level of $hit that any of you have to tolerate on the Skok. From what you all describe it sounds like a story line from Tales of the Crypt.

I think your right in not giving up the fight. Continue to fight for what you believe and set a higher standard even if it's harder to do.

Us southern boys have to witness the waste and destruction of the nets from commercials on the lower Columbia to the tribal nets above the dam. I thank god that we don't have netting in our coastal rivers or in the Columbia tribs in Oregon. When you have to work day in and day out trying to catch a fish in a battle zone it would take every last ounce of fun out of it.

Good luck in your battles....I hope it gets better up there.

Yikes
I think I'll stick to bass fishing.

Coho
I hate to say it but the Dam that TCL built has little to no impact on the fish mainly because the fish dont make it up that far.

Now I will admit when they first put it in it might of had some effect but not much considering it is a fair way up the river.

I personaly have not hiked up to it but I have gone quite aways up that river and there are a few parts where the river almost becomes inpassable. Now lake cushman has landlocks in it so obviously some fish did make it up that far. But I dont think that it impacted the river to the point of no fish.

Hey Yall
When I get back from my vacation we might have to go down there and go fishing and who knows maybe even clean up some of the trash down there. well I got to go my plane is here
Dances Out

http://www.nwifc.wa.gov/search/search.idq?CiMaxRecordsPerPage=10&TemplateName=query&CiSort=rank%5Bd%5D&HTMLQueryForm=query.htm&CiRestriction=skokomish+river&CiScope=%2F&I3.x=25&I3. y=4

Keta: Nice link..... It still doesn't justify the f**ked up thinks the Skokomish tribe is doing on the River. The Skoks had the river. Then, somebody a little higher up on the food chain came and built a dam on it. It happens all of the time. I don't like it anymore than you do, but it is still no excuse to act like a bunch of Idiots everytime a run of fish happens to come up the river. The Skoks are taking advantage of an outdated and poorly worded treaty, the same way that ALL the Treaty Tribes do. If the Skoks truly cared about the Skokomish river system they would pull the nets out and stop the unabashed slaughter and wastage of all of those fish.... BTW, this statement applies to all netters wherever you may be.

Those links are the biggest bunch of BS!!!! The fish didn't make it up to the original lake. There was a lower set of falls that the fish couldn't make over. They forgot to tell you about that didn't they.

There was fish in the river 20 years ago.

The dam's have been in 90 years.

The tribe has no interest in getting fish back in the river, if they do they can't try to get any money (billions)

Most of their lawsuits have been thrown out court.

It would be interesting to see how many lawsuits there would be if they had to use their own money.

USFS wanted to take a few (6 fish) for broodstock, the tribe told them "NO" If there was enough to take for broodstock they would have to admidt there were fish in the river.

Don't belive everything you read, if you do I have some great property to sell you.

The dam may be responsible for a lot of bad things on the Skokomish. I don't know about fish passage issues, but siltation caused by the lower flows since the dam went in is believed to be responsible for the substantial reduction of wild chinook and steelhead in the river. These are hardly to be found anymore on the Skokomish; their disappearence occurred within the decade following the dam, before treaty rights were recognized.

The siltation and filling of the river below the forks is also responsible for the news worthy flooding that occurs just about every winter. I don't think the homeowners that built on the river would have done so if historically the river overflowed its banks like it does now.

I know its a supreme irritation to us sporties, but all told, I'd rather have the Indians pound a hatchery run like they do on the Skok then wild runs. At least its an allocation issue (not to mention gear conflicts) as opposed to a conservation issue in which wild stocks are at risk. The wild guys are mostly gone, thanks to the dam.

Damn, I hadnt intended to log in today, but I just couldnt resist getting my 2 cents worth into this.
First of all, the dam is not the only problem source in the Skok Valley. Logging practices are also to blame. I dont want to defend TCL, but I dont really think they are the sole cause of the problem. I've no idea of how much action has been brought against the timber industry there, by the tribe, but I suspect it hasnt been much. Hmm.. Tribe like logging???
After conversation with others who are more knowledgable than I am, though, I believe the Tribe's position is mostly about the $$ Ca$h. Even though some of them would prefer to see the fish restored, they'll fish anything to extinction, so long as it supports their legal position to litigate about the dam. Paying them off sounds like a great idea until you consider the legal precedences it would establish.
And from what I've heard, they dont want to assume ownership and operation of the power plant, as it is probably too labor-intensive. i.e., theyd have to WORK at it.
The river has lots of good looking spawning habitat, but it will probably never be stocked or restored in any way until the lawsuits about the dam go away. Who in their right mind would do anything to enhance or restore the runs while the tribe would purposely decimate their effort to support their court actions??
TCL seems to have a history of not being very fish-conscious, (look at their actions on the Cowlitz reported in another thread) and may very well be operating the dam illegally.
But with the legislative influence and votive power of Tacoma and Pierce County, their position is nearly invulnerable. And they know it, therefore they'll do nothing until they're forced.
So, the tensions and incivilities along the Skok will continue to escalate until bloodshed happens, then the US Marshals will be brought in, and the tribe will finally get their day in court.
And the sport fisherman will ultimately lose, again. The fish?? Oh well...everyone say: let WDFW take care of it. After 20 years of studies, they'll get around to doing something, maybe.
Sorta makes you wonder, doesnt it.

OB
I hate to say it but I have heard stories from old timers about the fish runs forty to fifty years ago now I am not sayin there is a whole lot of truth to these stories because everyone knows how badly fisherman lie but whe I hear the exact same kind of stories from my dad and his friends from twenty years ago it kinda makes you wounder whats going.

And about the wild steelhead there are a few left because I have caught them and my dad has caught them. they are there but they are few and far between. I am not saying they are native because the skok is stocked with steelhead every year but none of the fish ever seem to make it back to spawn.

I know of a group who is desperatly trying to bring back a lost run of steelhead and they are having some progress and once they are done on that river they plan to move to the skok now if they are success full it will be amazing but it is at least something.
Well I have to go party alittle considering its my birthday and all
Dances Out

ZOZO, IZ THAT THE NEXT BEST THING AS A YO-YO? maybe you should join custers last stand.

The Dams did it??????
What crock of $hit
The Damn river was over netted....plain and simple,
it was all about money to the tribe......Os

ZOZO=YOYO? Join Custer's Last Stand? Oh, I get it, You are trying to make an attempt at humor. As long as we're talking about Custer, let's examine exactly what happened AFTER Custer's Last Stand..... The Whites came back with more soldiers, rounded up all of the Indians, gave them the $hitiest land as reservations, killed the ones that refused to go tame, and then the whites proceeded west. Every time a new indian tribe was discovered, the whites either forced them onto a reservation, or killed them for being "Hostile". This continued for quite some time. Now, in this day in age..... The world as we know it is totally controlled by rich men of European descent, the Indians have become a "Domesticated" race of people who are incapable of self sufficiency. They do however, get to net fish, have casinos, and they get to sell fireworks. Wow, not a bad trade for a couple hundred dead white guys.

hey LZ
We have all heard the history lesson(sp) And yes they indians did get screwed in the begining but why take it out on poor defenceless fish? What's done is done lets move on, and stop look'n in the past.
If we dont put all of our differences aside then nothing will get done. Just look at some of the other rivers on the olympic peninsula like the duckabush its dead now because of over netting. Do you want that to happen to all the rivers here or just the select few that you dont fish?

Now I know that there are other tribes who work to help restore runs of fish but the skok is not one of them. They get more money if there are no fish in the river then when there is. So what is stoppin them from over fishing nothing because either way they make money! and thats what its all about! MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I am going to stop rambling. I am going to be fishing sunday morning of next week out there and if anyone would like to join me then you are welcome. I would like some friendly company and mabye some to help me fight off the locals
What do you say to that Hey_Yall

hey LZ
We have all heard the history lesson(sp) And yes they indians did get screwed in the begining but why take it out on poor defenceless fish? What's done is done lets move on, and stop look'n in the past.
If we dont put all of our differences aside then nothing will get done. Just look at some of the other rivers on the olympic peninsula like the duckabush its dead now because of over netting. Do you want that to happen to all the rivers here or just the select few that you dont fish?

Now I know that there are other tribes who work to help restore runs of fish but the skok is not one of them. They get more money if there are no fish in the river then when there is. So what is stoppin them from over fishing nothing because either way they make money! and thats what its all about! MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I am going to stop rambling. I am going to be fishing sunday morning of next week out there and if anyone would like to join me then you are welcome. I would like some friendly company and mabye some to help me fight off the locals
What do you say to that Hey_Yall
I'd say let's make it a date but I dont want you to take it the wrong way

Sunday, as in 2 days, or 9?

I gotta go get purdeeeed up. Gotta spray some of that stank good on me since I got me one of dem dere meatin's.

Hey_Yall
it would have to be in 9 days. It would be really hard for me to go this sunday cuz I am half way around the world so I guess it will have to be in 9 days. I think I might even be able to drag my oldman out there too. Just as long as he is back in time for church
Well I got to go catch my flight to NZed so have funn everyone
Dances Out