I have to vouch for Andy on this one. I met up with him for some deer hunting and he never mooched any eggs the entire hunt.

Seriously, does anyone really think that buying eggs is an issue? Flame me gently.

Dan,

I think that you are forgetting that you and Zach had to hold me back from running down to that stream and grabbing a hen or two for eggs.

We actually found a tributary of the Chehalis that was maybe three feet across and was full of wild silvers. We were about 7 miles from the main stem of the river. There was a part of the stream that had actually run over the roadway because of the excess rainfall and the silvers were zipping up the road. I don't ever remember see that many fish that far up before. We were about a mile or so from the headwaters of that particular stream.

Keith,

The anchovie and herring stocks are actually improving, but you are right in pointing out that they were very low. The anchovies are seeing the best improvement of the two. The ocean conditions over that past few years have been a boon to all of the oceanic species in our area.

Having Westport as part of my market area gives me a unique insight on the future fishing prospects as I get to talk with people actually involved in all aspects of the fishing industry, not just the armchair biologists. I think that I had posted in June of this year that one of my clients told me that 2001 was the best Troll King season opener in 20 years, and just what type of season did everyone have? I will continue to share my info with you folks as I find out about it. Good info, regardless of where it comes from is still good info.

Ryan,

I appreciate your enthusiasm and your focus on the issues as you see them. Keep on fighting the good fight, but be careful of the stance you take because you may turn some folks away from your cause. People can get turned off very quickly by overly emotional protests. Moderation may actually gain you more supporters.

Andy

[ 01-23-2002: Message edited by: Dogfish ]

I'll stand by Ryan on this one.

Whether it is a by-product or not, I view buying eggs from gillnetted fish a vote of approval for the netting. It doesn't matter if it's $100 a pound or one cent ... you're providing a marketplace. It's as simple as that.

By no means do I stand by netting, and especially netting that includes native fish whether it's indians or whities. The simple fact is they will keep netting.
A great solution is to get eggs from hatcheries but you can't do that either. Why waste any part of the fish if it is netted and as I mentioned earlier why send the eggs over seas.
I put up as many eggs as I can legally and then the surplus to support my hobby has to come from somewhere.
No more bait, then no more fishing for me...

Listen, don't get started on the bait thing.. Next it will be bait bans and that's not right. I don't discriminate others for there chosen method of fishing. Enough said.
As far as the indian discussions see my signature below..

[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: Perfect Drift ]

I must clarify one thing:

1)I am not against fishing with bait...as a matter of fact, I've got more fish this winter on eggs then anything else.

I've got so much more I want to say in regards to this issue but I feel I will begin to repeat myself plus it is late and sadly, I think this falling on deaf ears. As I sit here, I seriously believe I am missing something...I just do not get why any of you would do such a thing.

[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: RPetzold ]

I am so dam tired of this $hit!!! The indians have the RIGHT to net! Give me a phuckin break!! This netting $hit is getting way out of hand and if some of you people cant see that then you are stupid.. BAN ALL NETS If we can get the timber industry cut back like has been done then there is no reason that we cant get netting at least cut back..Why the hell should the indians get to gill net rivers and I cant?BULL$HIT!! If you want to talk about discrimination as far as I see it the white male over 18 is the minority in this country now days...The law was passed by Judge Boldt who was "BEDDING" with an indian at the time he passed it..I get so dam tired of all these free hand out to people and other people coming into this country and gettin LOW intrest loans and the same for the idians and welfare and the phuckin government handouts..I pay through the nose in income tax to give it to someone else because they dont want to work or they say they were treated unfair in some way and need compensation!!I call BULL$HIT again...If netting is a ritual thing or what ever the hellthey call it, then get enough for your medicine man dance and STOP selling fish..
Just like rivers being off limits to us like the Quinalt.I call BULL$HIT again...can anyone of us own a river and keep people off of it NO!!! Then why in the hell should they be able to..Looks to me like maybe we should call this country..INDIAN OWNED STATES OF AMERICA..United my A$$ if it was there wouldnt be groups getting special treatmant..Seems to me they can call there own shots like they own the whole phuckin place!

We all need to come together and find some even ground here because this aint working..

well I guess I've stirred the pot enough.. I'm done..TM

That's part of the problem, TM. People B!tch and figure they've done their part. P!ssing and moaning is easy. Resolving the issue is far from easy, and the result is continued b!tching. Note I'm not complaining about the situation right now, because I don't know what the answer is. Boldt screwed the non-indians with his interpretation and it's a very difficult decision to overturn. It's the law, though, and until it's changed, you either live with it or subject yourself to the consequences. By the way, it's a lot easier to assess the health of a forest than an anadromous fish stock. Yes, I know it's more complex than just counting the trees, but you get the picture.

Gentlemen,
There are far worse things in this life that somebody could be doing then buying eggs from an already dead fish. Do I agree with the nets in the water? Nope I don't, but this is America, and in America we have the wonderful, incredible freedom to do what we want when we want to do it. As a Doctor there are many things I see almost everyday that I disagree with but still must take care of. Does that water me down, yes I imagine it does. I don't know anyone on this board but Ryan I can only picture you as an overzealous, arrogant, ignorant college kid. If you are something else then I am sorry, but I was one once also. That said I must say that in theory I agree with you, but then again I have never had the need to buy any eggs. I see many people buying eggs at the Sporting Goods stores. I can only imagine that these eggs were harvested from commercially caught fish, some if not all. Anyway to answer the question of ethics, in this case I don't believe it is ethics it is opinion and there is a big difference between the two.

Doc

Hey Sparky. Stick to your guns on this one. If there were a couple hundred thousand more like you, your wish might come true.Oh yea. you want to buy a cherry IMX 1082c for 250.00? It comes with a free G. Loomis hat.

Its sucks and is unfortunate but nets have been around longer than fishing poles and everybody has to make a living. I'd rather see nets in individual rivers than an ocean fishery that kills not knowing where the returns are going.
I'll fish a jig before I buy bait from a netter! Its almost as ethical as clubbing Natives.

Holy smokes fellas... I think we can all agree that netting, whether tribal or commercial is bad. Then why the hell would you support them by buying roe? Yeah, the fish is already dead, but the fact of the matter is somebody is making money from that dead fish.

With the exceptional runs we have been having, why would you need to go out and buy eggs? If you are having a hard time hooking fish, ask some of the guys in here, chances are somebody has a bunch of roe they will not beable to use. Another thing is, there is so many techniques out there that will take fish just as readily as eggs will. Throw a float n' jig, then go back with a spoon, maybe some raw prawn or sandies, chances are if they wont hit any of those setups they wont hit anything...

Right on TM!
Perhaps someday the Federal Courts will look at the crazed mans decision. All people should have equal rights.

I hope that some of Salmo G's solutions will come to be. Perhaps that would ease our pain.

[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: GutZ ]

Since you are a doctor, I am assuming you are an elder man who has seen the good ole days of prolific fish runs come and go. And your age probally brings about pessimism and conversatism-as in no desire to change.

If it takes a bunch of overzealous, arrogant and ignorant college kids to bring about change and take the power away from the lazy, satisified with status-quo pessimisitc old men, then so BE IT!!

I refure to sit back and watch the last of our wild steelhead and salmon populations go the way that the majority of them have.

When I am your age, I do not want my periods of nostaglia to remind of the good 'ole days when there were actually steelhead and salmon to be caught.

That's true. But it's not the issue here. Fishdoc and some others are missing the point I think. In buying eggs from non-Indian and Indian gillnetters you are supporting their activities with both a vote and dollars. This creates more dead fish that you keep refereing to as inevitable dead fish. But as I've presented in other netting issue threads, I don't mind the Indians getting their Federal Court mandated 50% share of fish. But all of us mind them getting much more than that. Those issues are discussed in Salmo G.'s good 'Solutions' thread, and in one of my netting threads, so don't need repeating here. What I think a boycott of buying netted eggs does is send the message that a large part of the populace is against gillnets that take native fish. And it takes away the hypocritical image of sportsmen.

As for the eggs you see being bought at tackle shops and from bait dealers, they are a majority of excess eggs purchased from hatcheries. This money helps fund hatchery improvements. The comm. netters mostly sell the eggs to dealers of overseas markets for caviar. They get more money from those sales than from the flesh sales. The Indians sell eggs roadside to fishermen.

And I agree that properly rigged sandshrimp tails along with colored yarn and/or corkies are on the same general level of catching steelhead that eggs are. Close enough anyway. And there has been an over abundance of sport caught hatchery salmon and steelhead hens for having some eggs to use anyway. I also find it somewhat more sporting and fun to try different non bait lures to catch these fish. That's just how I fish. Might catch a few less, but it's sure fun to feel or see a hard bobber down when fishing with a jig or pink worm, for example. Lots of other very productive lures to use also. ... My 0.02 opinion

Ryan,

When you get old (older) you can always smoke a pipe and read the newspaper. It is fun!

Dogfish.

Without debating the issue, I want to say that I noticed and appreciate the way that you responded to Ryan with respect in your fourth post. In a similar situation I'm liable to bring out the big guns and start firing away, doing whatever it takes to be 'right' or at least not be made 'wrong'. Next thing I know it's a war.

Ron

Who needs eggs anyway? I catch all my fish on spinners and spoons! Eggs are too messy, and do you notice how those fish bite after you've thrown off that cluster you were using!

Just my $.02

Well, I'm not going to go too deep into this as I'm started to get flamed a bit.
I bite my lip everytime I see someone say that shrimp or prawns or spinners or spoons will do as good as eggs, ARE YOU NUTS!! Let's get down to the point, if you go fishing for scenery fine use anything.. I mean hell use a cigarette butt.. But I spend my time out there for scenery and catching fish and try to maximize in all situations, so getting to the point USE EGGS!
Keith

Simple question,simple answer,No.