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#145219 - 03/14/02 07:43 PM Bad News for the Cowlitz!
cowlitzfisherman Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/14/00
Posts: 1828
Loc: Toledo, Washington
Not good news!

On Wednesday, March the 13, 2002 Tacoma Power was granted a new 35 year License for the Cowlitz River Hydroelectric 2016 Project by FERC. The License will become effective on April 12, 2002, pending our appeal to WDOE by both my group and the FOC.

Not a good day for the Cowlitz fishermen (But not unexpected).

More to come as our appeal to WDOE is heard.

Cowlitzfisherman
Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????
_________________________
Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

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#145220 - 03/14/02 08:24 PM Re: Bad News for the Cowlitz!
Wild Chrome Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/14/01
Posts: 640
Loc: The Tailout
Cowlitz,

What specifically were you hoping for? I'm not very familiar with The Cowlitz. Were you hoping the liscence would be discontinued and water flows enhanced/dam removed?
Just curious.
_________________________
If every fisherman would pick up one piece of trash, we'd have cleaner rivers and more access.

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#145221 - 03/14/02 10:42 PM Re: Bad News for the Cowlitz!
cowlitzfisherman Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/14/00
Posts: 1828
Loc: Toledo, Washington
Number one issue was, and still is, FISH LADDERS!!!

Should be right down your way of thinking of what "wild fish" really need for their recovery!

How could it ever happen without them?

Cowlitzfisherman
Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????
_________________________
Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

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#145222 - 03/15/02 12:44 AM Re: Bad News for the Cowlitz!
RRR Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 08/18/00
Posts: 268
Loc: (Tacoma native),San Diego WA, ...
Good luck w/the appeal wish that I could help--maybe once I get back home
Sincerely,
Roger
_________________________
"Man can learn a lot from fishing. When the fish are biting, no problem in the world is big enough to bne remembered. " -- Oa Battista

VERY Homesick in San Diego

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#145223 - 03/15/02 06:50 AM Re: Bad News for the Cowlitz!
sinker Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/12/01
Posts: 434
Loc: Puyallup, WA
Has anyone ever built ladders that high?
I've seen the dam on Riffe Lake but not Mayfield.
That's one high dam. Who knows what kind of superstructure you'd have to build to get the fish up to lake level.
You're probly talking a cost of billions of dollars and I don't see the general public going for that.

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#145224 - 03/15/02 12:47 PM Re: Bad News for the Cowlitz!
'Head hunter Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 12/21/00
Posts: 112
Loc: Shelton, WA.
Cowlitzfisherman:
Check your e-mail and get back to me.
Head hunter.

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#145225 - 03/15/02 01:18 PM Re: Bad News for the Cowlitz!
'Head hunter Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 12/21/00
Posts: 112
Loc: Shelton, WA.
I've gotta add this.
Eventually ladders or some other viable means of fish passage WILL be built. Not just in the Cowlitz, but in the Lewis River as well.
There's a new force in the mix, and at present I'm not at liberty to discuss who it is.
We just dont know who's gonna foot the bill, how much the cost will be, or when, or how it will be achieved.
I'll throw this into the equation... a ladder to pass a 500 ft high dam could amount to 250 or more pools, and be approximately 2500 or more feet in length. Similar structures currently being built cost approximately $500 per foot, and complexity factors for this type of facility can add 100%. So it's not inconceivable that a ladder could cost $2 1/2 million, or more, and that's the cheap part. Operations and maintenance could add over $100,000 per year. So the question becomes: how will the program be paid for?
Then comes the question of how are the fish going to survive the passage on their upstream migration, and if they've expended that much energy just to climb the ladder, what will their success in spawning be? Then comes out-migration: how do you prevent the juvenile fish from becoming fish meal in the turbines?
These and other questions need answers that will work, before anyone is gonna allocate a dime.
The Columbia and Snake river system isnt that great of a model, their mortality rates are so high that you cant readily accept the viability of the program. But they DO have a upstream fishery...
I'm not posting this as a slap at anyone, and I'm not defending the State or TPL.
I'm actually trying to encourage some creative thought about how tho solve these problems. Once we have a solution, maybe something can be done for the fisheries and the people who use them.

Head hunter.

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#145226 - 03/15/02 01:56 PM Re: Bad News for the Cowlitz!
Land Tuna Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 02/22/00
Posts: 142
Loc: Kirkland Wa USA
cowlitzfisherman,
Keep fighting in the end right will win out.
Question for you. Has there been any attempt to use the type of smolt by pass system on the Cowlitz dams like the one they are now building at Rocky Reach Dam. I know the pilot project was a sucsessful in the two years they ran it or let's say considered sucsessfull. The pilot project did not use the turbines as a by pass but by creating matching stream flow mechanicaly smolts followed that flow into a man made channel or doors then into a 9 foot diamiter pipe that was also controlled by a valve creating the same steam fow as the river. Smolts followed flow down through pipe and out into the river without stress from going through turbines. If I'm correct they had a 99% survival rate for the smolts they taged and released up river ten miles or so. I thought they were going to try this type of by pass on the Cowlitz. If so has it worked at all?

Also your discussion on rights and privalege was the best yet. This has become a discussion point for many diverse groups from the Wildcatters to the WSC, anyway I'm sure over beers after meetings.
Good Luck
Land Tuna.

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#145227 - 03/15/02 04:13 PM Re: Bad News for the Cowlitz!
Eric Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 3426
cowlitzfisherman,

Has anyone explored using some kind of collection facility at the base of the dam and constructing some kind of a rail-driven dolly/hoist that could go right up the face of the dam? This actually seems cheaper and more friendly to the fish than having them run the gauntlet of a ladder that long. A 5 minute ride up and over the dam and they would be on their way.

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#145228 - 03/15/02 04:59 PM Re: Bad News for the Cowlitz!
cowlitzfisherman Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/14/00
Posts: 1828
Loc: Toledo, Washington
Thanks for the interest everyone!
I will attempt to answer everyone's question the best that I can. I will go down the line with Wild Chrome first. Fish ladders are the number one issue for me.

______________
Sinker & Eric
Yes, they have built fish ladders at dams as high as Mayfield Dam. Riffe lake, well that's another story. There are other unproven options like the "Swell concept" that could work for the "Really Big One" (Riffe Lake). Other options could be the combination of fish ladders with trap and hauling abilities. Another option would be a small ladder at the base of Riffe for capturing adults and then use a continuous "tram" to transport the adults over into Riffe lake. That was the concept that they originally used at Mayfield Dam and the records showed that it worked fairly well. Mayfield Dam fish ladder is a no-brainer!

The estimated cost for a fish ladder at Mayfield is: $9,900.000, annual O&M was estimated to be: $297,000 a year. The estimated cost for a fish ladder at Riffe is: $22,400,000, annual M&O was $672,000 a year. The Swell option was the largest at: $150,000,000. The Mossyrock (Riffe) Trap and Haul was the lowest at: $4,500,000 Tram cost were also consider, but I do not have those figures.

Land Tuna

They did do some limited testing at Cowlitz falls on that method. It did show that many of the smolts were attracted by the current. My best guess is that Tacoma is considering that as part of a package that they my be force to do under the heavy gun of NMFS & USF&WS ongoing consultation. Both NMFS & USF&WS firmly believe that successful down stream passage is more important then the up stream passage issues are. We differ big time on that one!

Anyway, Tacoma agreed in the settlement agreement to put $15,000,000 into a trust fund to fund fish passage when required to so. So the money is certainly there right now to do the Mayfield fish ladder and the Truck & Haul at Riffe.

The big thing that is holding up the building of the fish ladders now is the terms and triggers that our agencies agreed to when they signed the Settlement Agreement. I hope this helps everyone understand what is happing concerning the fish ladders on the Cowlitz.

P.S, Thanks Land Tuna for your words of support!

Cowlitzfisherman
Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????
_________________________
Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

Top
#145229 - 03/15/02 05:35 PM Re: Bad News for the Cowlitz!
Land Tuna Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 02/22/00
Posts: 142
Loc: Kirkland Wa USA
Cowlitzfisherman,
Checked in my office about the mechanical current by pass on the cowlitz.. It was used on the upper section as a way to get smolts into a fish holding area so they would not go over a spillway and smash against the concrete at the bottom. What happens after the smolts get into the holding area I'm not sure but I know you must know the situation up there. If you have never been up to Rocky Reach Dam on the Columbia you should. They still have the smolt pilot plant runing as far as I know. I've also heard that they plan to go even further on the Cowlitz with by pass project and it will be big bucks to do so. The cost for Rocky Reach full project is at or over 60 million dollars but that's a lot bigger dam than those on the Cowlitz.

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