Hello everyone,

It seems to me that the WDFW's required 300,000 fish escapement rule is really high, especially for just one river's worth of fish. I also look at the historical run size data (available on their web site) and do not see any increase in average run size since the institution of this rule. I blame this on politics as the sockeye run is very visible to alot of people and the WDFW wants to look good to the non-fishing but still interested people of Puget Sound.

We might already have 300,000++ since the tribes have already netted outside of the locks....NOT FAIR 16,500+ yesterday and 27,000+ day before that

I believe that the escapement goal is 350,000 fish. That is supposed to encompass all of the tributaries and the in-lake spawners as well as the Cedar river fish. I'm sure that WDFW and the tribes didn't pick the number arbitrarily, it was negotiated by biologists from both entities. I believe that if you look around on the WDFW site, there is some info as to how the escapement number was reached.

Too high is better than too low.

I know this may cause some grief... But I wish they wouldnt even allow any kind of sockey netting/fishing for at least 12 years.

anybody on the board accidently hooked a sockeye when fishing lake washington? if so, did you realease it? i sure heck wouldnt, if the tribes can net them, then i can keep them too, **berkley boy**

Hey Berkley Boy,

How would you *accidently* hook a sockeye in lake Washington? Unless of course you happen to be trolling a dodger and bare red hook. Dude, like it or not the season is CLOSED to you and me until such time as the state opens it. Hell, why don't we all go and fish for whatever we want, whenever we want. Screw the LAW, the tribes get theirs, I want Mine!

BB75, IMO you might want to evaluate your outlook of fishing.

A coyote spoon will easily catch sockeye in the Lake. Hey, whaddya know, that coyote spoon is the same darn spoon that the cuttthroat fishermen use. You don't need those stupid bare hooks to catch sockeye in the lake. We seem to limit out (when there was a fishery) without bare hooks just fine.

Yes, I have accidently caught sockeye in the lake while trolling for cutts. Yes, I released them, as it's not legal to keep sockeye in the lake now.

As for you BB, be my guest and keep the fish. Just be aware that you would be watched by about 50 game officers. You are a richer man than I am if you can easily pay off those citations. I think poaching offenses are not cheap.

i dont care what other people think, that is my will..as for the tribes getting to net and keep fish, and i dont, that there is racism, its all about a 100 year old treaty that dont mean squat, so ya i would keep a sockeye if i did catch one, but i dont even fish on lake wa..and about keeping whatever jus so i can have what is mine is mine kinda attitude, i release all native steelies no matter if its ok to keep them on any certain river, there is a over abundant amount of sockeye, how much do they need for escapement, anyone know? **berkley boy**

Just wanted to make a couple of comments....first I don't have any idea if 350K is a reasonable escapement number. I'm assuming our fish biologists make their best educated guess even though they can be wrong just like the rest of us. I also assume its better to error on the high side to ensure the long term health of the run. Finally, 350K doesn't seem very high in comparison to escapement goals on some rivers in Alaska.

Regarding comments about the tribes getting their fish so I should get mine.....I'll just assume this is an emotionally driven statement because it totally ignores the law and the reality of Indian fishing rights. As a sportfisherman I'm just as unhappy about Native Americans having fishing rights that differ from ours as anyone else, but all arguments about unfairness, wasting fish, bad interpretation of treaties, etc. etc. etc. aside, the crux of the matter is the government/we struck a deal that guaranteed Indians certain rights....among them fishing rights. So even if we are unhappy about it we can't just retrade the deal. When is the last time you went to your mortgage company and said....ya know I'm unhappy about giving you $1,500 a month for my house.....so why don't I just give you $1,000 because things have changed and it would be better for me? Maybe the Indians are saying ya know 50% of run used to half a million fish now its a measly 100,000 fish, maybe we should ask for 75% of the run to make up for it. Anyway, just my 2 cents worth.

JMS

Oh, one more thing, which may be better for another thread.....has anyone considered pursuing these sockeye salmon in the salt, say outside the Shilshoe Bay boundary line before they head into Lake Washington? Just curious.

Little fish,

Years ago, when the shilshole area was open, I tried the dodger/bare hook thing in the salt. I was marking large schools of fish, and the sockeye were jumping all around. For some reason they just don't seem to bite the classic setup as well in saltwater as they do in the lake? I too would be interested in hearing from anyone who has successfully targeted them in the salt. I know that they catch a fair amount of Fraser sockeyes incidentally in the San Juan's, but I haven't heard of much success in area 10. (maybe it's just that no one is talking?)

p.s. Maybe parker has something there? Flatfish or Coyote spoons in the salt may just be the ticket.

4salt - I have a good idea of how to catch those pesky reds in the salt, but haven't tried it out yet. No, it doesn't involve coyote spoons, flatfish, bait (of any kind), or bare hooks.

It's just one of those things I never get around to doing.

If someone has a boat with electric downriggers, and wants to go hunt for some Reds, I'd be glad to share my techniques with them. Unfortunately, I really do believe that most of the fish have slipped in to the Ballard Locks holding area.

I'd say you would a have shot tonight and maybe tomorrow night, but I bet the numbers will drastically drop by the weekend. Not worth it past that point. I'm fishing the Yak this weekend, so that's shot.

There's just something really fun about fishing in and around a large school of Reds! Cool stuff!

Too bad this subject didn't come up a week ago!

Cigar - got the boat all ready to go? Them pesky silvers should be coming in soon!

I have been marginally (only just barely) successful catching reds in Johnstone Strait with a flasher and pink hootchie. I would assume the same might work here, but have never tried it.

I don't know parker, I think it would be awful tough to line them damn things with a "coho fly" out in front of Golden Gardens!

small pink hoochies (behind flashers) are what we used in vancouver BC for sockeye in the salt.

Numbers have been updated again, can't wait for a season in 4 years....
http://www.wa.gov/wdfw/fish/sockeye/counts.htm

Kev

Been doing a little research and found this on the bcadventure website. Parker, any of your ideas similar to these techs?

...Behaviourally, sockeye share characteristics with coho and pink. During summer months, schools of all three species intermingle on the migration route from the open Pacific to inland waters prior to dispersal to streams of origin. These schools travel 15 to 20 miles per day, swimming in the top 50 feet of the water column 1 to 3 miles offshore. On occasion sockeye will be taken as deep as 125 feet, but this is not common. Look for sockeye to be bunched in tidelines.

In the past, sockeye were not caught by sports fishers. Fortunately for anglers, 15 years ago sockeye behaviour altered and they began hitting red Krippled Ks trolled dead slow behind a small Gibbs flasher. In the intervening years, they have begun to take other lures: pink or orange hootchies, squirts and plankton squirts on 24 - 34 inch leaders behind a flasher. Occasionally, they will take bait in a red teaser head, and green or black apex lures. I anticipate many lures will develop over the years. Simply a piece of pink surgical tubing on a hook, the relatively new Happy Hooker is one example. Some days this very simple lure outfishes anything else in the tackle box.The sockeye bite dramatically improves when other species are present.

The sockeye angler now has some specific techniques at his or her disposal. Consider any red lure, even a hook painted red or a red bead on a hook. With sockeye, less is definitely more; rip out at least every second frond of a hootchie. True herbivores, sockeye target plankton and krill (euphasiid shrimp) and this probably accounts for the preference for pink and for small lures. For some reason, sockeye are far more stimulated by flashing light than other salmon. Consequently, the rule with sockeye is: get as many flashers in the water as possible. Tie 10 feet of leader to a flasher and attach it to the downrigger ball and then your fishing line 10 feet higher. Alternatively, stack more than one fishing line per downrigger. Just get those flashers in the water! As for electrical potential, sockeye prefer the highest voltage of any salmonid - .75 volts.

Sockeye are great followers, passively floating along behind lures for great distances without biting. Along with their herbivorous nature, this may help to explain why virtually all sockeye are caught on trolled lures. This behaviour can be used to catch them. Trigger strikes by changing lure action: crank tight turns every few hundred yards; take the boat out of gear every now and then; and, when fishing with slip weights, pull 2 feet of line, hold it for a second and let it go. When the rod tip dips, sometimes a sockeye will strike. Some days it is truly amazing how many fish this simple technique will take.

Maybe.....

Berkley Boy, why do you go to all the boards causing trouble?

The Indians have their rights, we have ours. There is no racism involved. Sure thing, they DO know how to bend some rules without actually breaking them, but the Federal Government made a treaty with them. Not Washington, not King County. The USA. The USA, which has never even had an Indian CABINET member.

If you want to keep a sockeye, fine. But it not only angers other anglers for ruining the future fishing, but it also gets you a steep fine. A fishing without a license (of which he did own but did not have on him) fine was $100 for a friend of mine... Wonder what poaching will be? For your sake I hope you dont want to find out.

Not only will that fine come, but you will lose your fishing license, and that "fine" goes on your C.R. Is that what you want?

Curtis