why is it a guy can go to alaska have a 20or 30 fish day on silvers get them to bite almost anything but in washington when they hit the river they get lockjaw? and have to use the smallest of lures so as not to spook them? what do ya think????

Doug,

I was having a similar conversation with another board member yesterday. We were trying to figure out from our AK experiences if there was something we should be doing or using that might change things. The one thing I believe differs between the two states, drastically in some watersheds, is the temperature of the river water. There very well may be a correlation between coho feeding/striking and temps they are encountering. That would explain why they feed decently in the sound, and will still readily bite in the depths of Lake Washington but not near the surface (not nearly as easily anyways).

My guess is the lower waters for one, and the fact that they have the hatchery in mind to get to.... Plus they probably fed way too much in the ocean this year?? Let it rain... You'll see the difference...
Keith

Low water is certainly an issue, but I think you'll find that Puget Sound coho are flat out inherently lockjawed, and that the exception is when they bite well.

It doesn't seem to be as big of a problem in other areas of the state, i.e., the coast. The high percentage of hatchery fish may be an issue on PS streams, in addition to the low fall flows that are present now.

FIsh on...

Todd.

IOW, we're continuing to breed non-biters. Maybe they ought to start a swap program where you can trade your biter in for a fish that made it to the hatchery to keep for dinner? :p

I believe the answer is just two words -
INTENSE PRESSURE!!

For more than 50 years (nearly 20 coho generations) we have fished on Puget Sound fish extremely hard. They were exposed to ocean sport and troll fisheries for up to 2 months, another 6 weeks of sportfishing on the straits and another several weeks of fishing in the Sound and then we fish on them for another 1 to 2 months in the river (essentially they have been fished on more or less continously for 5 to 6 months). How can we be surprised that the survivors don't bite?

Since WWII about 1/3 or more of the runs are caught in hook and line fisheries.

Water temperature can't be much of an issue most years - a look at USGS temperature records show temperatures in the low 50s are common this time of the year.

While it seems to be true that hatchery fish don't bite well how do you explain the poor biters in the Snohomish where typically 80 to 90% of the run is wild?

Has anyone else notice how few of the coho currently being caught in Puget Sound actually have bait in their stomachs? Since the 2nd week of September the majority of stomachs I have looked at have been empty. And those fish were the biters. We went get lucky and have early returns like last year we see fish still semi-interested in feeding and have decent fishing; on years like this year when they return a little late their stomachs have all ready shut down and they are no longer interested in feeding/biting.

We are seeing the result of years of intensive selective pressure against biting and we can look forward to the fish becoming tougher to catch in the future.

Tight lines
Smalma

Doug,
I think it has to do alot with your location in relation to where the fish are headed, for example, I've spent 11 years at 2 resorts that target different runs of fish, the first, near Ketchikan, has alot of fish returning to local hatcheries and watershed and while there were a number of wide open bites with fast and furious action, there were also alot of times when you would mark fish after fish with not so much as a sniff. These fish were close to home and at times, just weren't interested in eating know matter what we threw at them.

The second resort, near Craig, which, other than a small run of silvers to the Klawock river, was mainly an ocean fishery for migrating fish that still had alot of traveling to do, these fish are generally very agressive and easy to catch, lockjaw is not a term you here much in this area. As I mentioned, there is the 1 small local run that I have fished alot and have witnessed wide open bites come to a screeching halt while there are still alot of fish showing on the screen.

I think the same principles hold true here, the fish on the coast and straits still have some miles to cover therefore they have to eat, and generally more agressive, once they hit P.S. there almost home and I don't think feeding is as high on their priority list.

I could be totally off base here (wouldn't be the first time) but just what I've experienced and the conclusion I've drawn from that experience.

1 last note, just talked to some buddies of mine from the resort I worked at 2 years ago and they informed me, this past season was the worst silver season they have had in 12-14 yrs. up there, runs here may either be late or may not be coming at all, getting kinda late.

I think Smalma is right....we have been extracting the aggressive biters out of the gene pool for generations in WA state. Nothin' genetically left except the wimps (smartly so for their survival!). Give me those aggressive, beautiful native silvers of the AK coastal rivers anytime!

I am by no means an expert but every river I've fished in AK has been a glacial river and constantly has that milky, opaque quality that gives the fish some 'cover'. The puget sound rivers that I fish all run clear unless there has been precip.
I have much better luck if there is some color to the water.
Just a thought....

Dont know about you but I've noticed a correlation between water temps in the sound and catching fish. 55 and above and I'll try to find colder water, be it picking up and running somewhere else or dropping down waay deep

Let me see if I can think like a fish.....

I travel thousands of miles in the ocean for a few years...eating and swimming, swimming and eating. I get the urge to head for home...and eat some more! Now out in the ocean I have been avoiding predators and commercial fishermen to survive. As I get closer to home the pressure increases.....how do they know I am headed home anyway and at this time of year? Oh well...avoid the predators and the commercial fishermen and Busy's fishing line. I also avoid as many of those other fishing lines that I can....something just tells me it is not right, lost too many relatives that way...must be instinct but I don't know what that really is either....man I want to get to my home river.

I can smell that home water now! Not all that much of it though. What is wrong? Now all I can think about is getting home and, and, and what? Mating! Yeah that is it! Oh yeah....bring me home.... I am in the river now. Not much going on. Water is a little warm....having a hard time breathing.....not too much cover....I think I will hide in this deep dark hole and hope no one sees me. Nope, I am not eating now....too spooky and I am close to home......Only one thing on my mind....

Although I may not have the details totally correct, I belive the all of you are probably correct to some extent. Water level, instinctual urges and genetic 'culling' all are having an effect. It just means that we as fishermen have to get smarter and better. In the mean time it is school for us too until we do learn what will get these little silver beauties to bite!