My very own conspiracy theory. Figured 5am was as good a time as any to share it on the web.

I'll start with the theory itself:

OBL was killed during the battle of Tora Bora in Dec of 2001. I'll give a date 12/16/2001.

Now the motives for keeping it secret:

1. GW benefits from the public believing the bogeyman is still out there. If bad folk is still alive then public gives him free reign to 'protect us'.

2. Al Queda benefits by having a leader who has challenged the Great Satan and walked away alive.


Facts supporting conclusion that OBL is Dead.


1. No credible video since end of Nov 2001. Any video that has surfaced either are obvious imposters, or not so obvious. Either way, video has been scarce since Dec 2001. Google up OBL video and you'll find some great webpages doing comparisons between known OBL pics and the latest videos. Even if the last one was a good fake, some of the authenticated tapes are completely obviously NOT OBL. Why would they pass them off as being real?

OBL video link

2. Audio tapes have been authenticated by "US intelligence officals", but never by anyone willing to give thier name for the record. Google it up. Its always "officials". Someday the truth will come out and Rummy, Dummy, and Cheney will all be able to say "Well I never said he was alive". One of those "authenticated" audio tapes was independently studied by an independant Swiss reserch group, they gave a statement they were 100% sure it was NOT OBL. And never a counterstatement from the White House. Case dropped.

link swiss researcher group

3. Rummy was specifically asked 2 years ago at a news conference "Is OBL dead or alive?" His answer was a wise ass "Yes". He refused to give anything more then that.

4. Since Dec 2001 Bush has mysteriously lost personal interest in finding OBL.

5. Bush keeps a list of the most wanted terrorists in the top drawer of his desk in the Oval office. He mentioned the list during a 20/20 interview. He said he couldn't show who on it was captured or dead, but did say he marked them off his list as they were 'taken care of'. Now I remember them bragging about every high level capture or kill they have made except for 2, OBL and that Jackas Taliban Mullah Omar.

6. Shortly after Tora Bora a report on NPR was done on how the military has tissue samples from several of OBL's family. Those samples were being kept at the base on the East Coast where they process military remains. Evidently samples from Tora Bora were going to be analyzed against those tissue samples from OBL's family. Why the hell would they be doing that? Never any follow up reports. Believe me I looked, this is the story that got me thinking.

7. Several reports have gone out from different sources over 'power struggles' within Al Queda. Why would thier be a power struggle if OBL was alive?

8. (this is the only non-public/non-verifiable info I am going to give) Early summer I get an email from someone I'd been exchanging correspondence with for a couple years. He is involved with operations in Afghanistan. Thats all you get I dont need him buried in some hole in Turkey. He tells me that morale among troops in afghanistan is falling. They have killed anybody important, and the little guys are dead or humping goats in Pakistan. They get sent around the countryside on pointless missions since December. 90% of the 'company' guys are gone too. Why the sudden change in only 3-4 months?


9. Tora Bora was not some huge screw up. Multiple reports were made that hundreds of American special forces troops had surrounded the area known to be the last hidout of OBL. B 52's were turning the hills into parking lots. He farted and Spec Ops were analyzing what he had for lunch.

Tora Bora


I can get other links as requested. The truth is out there.


Vince

as far as "US intelligence officals", do you think they'd give their name to the media?? It's actually probably some geek working in the depths of a concrete office that no one has ever heard of before.

To you and I he may not seem credible but what do we really know about this stuff??


6. Shortly after Tora Bora a report on NPR was done on how the military has tissue samples from several of OBL's family. Those samples were being kept at the base on the East Coast where they process military remains. Evidently samples from Tora Bora were going to be analyzed against those tissue samples from OBL's family. Why the hell would they be doing that? Never any follow up reports. Believe me I looked, this is the story that got me thinking.

Maybe because after those B-52's and B-2's get done there's no possible way to tell what the remains are?? Heck they find a body here in the states and have no clue who it is most of the time.

I have maintained OBl has been dead since TB as well.

Just imagine where Dubya's polling numbers would be if the public knew 3 years ago OBL was dead. He'd be at 70% unfavorable rating. All he would have are the home schooling Southern Baptists.

I think it is less about what happens here vs turning him into a martyr over there.

I think it is very important for Dubya that people think OBL is alive. Does anybody really believe Iraq would have been possible with Osama dead? The publics attention would have quickly drifted off to something else.

Hey VH
Why do you waste what is obviously a great deal of inteligence and political insight cooking these things up? It seems like all the lefties on this board are so busy drumming up reasons to hate the current administration and its foreign policy that they have lost sight of the fact that even if it was wrong from the outset we are up to our noses in it now. Do you think we could fust end our involvement today without serious international backlash?
And yes, Iraq would have been possible if OBL were dead since they made the case for war there with the misconception that there were WMDs around. The propaganda would have been something like "well we got one, lets go get another!"
The point is that no matter what anybody thinks or believes WHOEVER is in office is going to drive our contry in what ever direction he or she wants. Now mind you I'm about as conservative as they come but I'm not so close minded to admit that ALL administrations from Washington to Bush #2 have cooked up info and distorted truths in order to sell their policies.
OBL is still alive because to conceal that sort of thing would be suicide for Bush and his money even after he's out of office. We all know these conspiracies, if true, have a way of being blown wide open.
Just my thoughts
Jeff

I cannot believe that with all the gear and gadjits and satelittes and spies and troops that we cannot find any human being on the face of the earth if we really wanted to. There for I think we do not want to find Osama (Dumbya himself said "I dont give him much thought). Afterall if we were serious about hunting down Al Q, the money and troops set aside to do that by Congress would not have been needlessly diverted into Iraq.

I beleive he is alive and working with the Bush administration, towards some diabolical end a plebian like myself is too out of the loop to phathom.

Bonjour everyone!
Chives vous et correct monsieur! Mr. Bin Laden is alive and well. He and Monsiuer Boosh often dine at my mansion in the west Hollywood Hills.
After a magnificient feast we smoke CIA grown killer bud from our solid gold bongs and discuss how to ream the american public for every sheckle we can. We usually finish with dessert ( a nice gill-net caught native steelehead pie!), smoke a few cuban cigars and laugh hard about the dead american troops and their families. Mr Bin Laden is quite the humorist I can assure you....mon Deiu! how we laughed and laughed!

Chives I thought Vhwaks logic was about as convoluted and paranoid as one could get/ They have medication have you tried it?

well Kingy, the last sentence was bait and a half joke (who knows for real? not you thats for sure!)

But from the first paragraph can you point to specifically what is convoluted or paranoid?

Do we not have incredible satellite tech, a massive spy network, etc etc. Has there ever been a case where we could not locate someone we were seeking to find?

When Bush said he doesnt give Osamam much thought, does that sound like someone who really wants to capture him? Does diverting funds and troops set aside by congress to find osama to Iraq sound like he really wants to find them?

Do you have such little faith in our capabilities that you actually beleive it possible for him to remain hidden from us? Well i support our troops and have confidence in them, and am not gonna sit here and listen to you bad mouth the united states of america by claiming we are so inept we cannot find Osama. Dont hate our freedom King. Support our troops and beleive that had we really been looking they wulda found him dead or alive by now.
How can you hate our soldiers so much?

last thing I want is guberment weed. They'll charge me 50$ a pack, put filters on my joints, and add a healthy dose of arsenic to em to boot. Then tax me for the priveledge of purchasing their enhanced deathsticks.

Best way to screw something up completely? Let the government handle it.

I kid around alot, but even the biggest Bush mark should have the sense to admit something dont look and smell right here.

Then again, if you can beleive Iraq is about wmd, no wait freedom!, no wait 9/11! ...if you think if it werent for bush we'd all be speaking Saddamese by now...well then you can probably beleive everything Dumbya and the christian right tells ya. have fun with that, but dont complain when he ****s in your salmon beds, polutes your forests , or sends your son off to get his dick blown off in some godforsaken desert because halliburton stock needs to rise a few points.

I wish i could buy it all hook line and dink float, life sure would be easier as one of the cattle. but unfortunately i have eyes and a brain.

Chives,

I think with our technology he has been worm food since Tora Bora. I jump off where the conspiracy theories start. Binny serves us fine with the Muslim world thinking he is dead. I doubt it really makes that much difference here.
If anyone thinks that this alll started and ended with Bin laden they have a lot of homework to do. Bin Laden is an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks
to collect a bill.

Hate to break the news but that right there would be a conspiracy would it not? If bin laden is dead, and bush is keeping that info from us, is that not a conspiracy???? So you think the president is actually lying to the american public? for what purpose? I would think that a dead Bin Laden would be a feather in Bushies cap. I dont buy that he needs to be alive to grease the wheels of the iraqi invasion because he wasnt even given as the reason back then. It was all about those elusive wmds if you recall, no mention of Osama. Not only that the american public would go along with whatver he wanted anyway because thats just how dumb we are.

Osama an errand boy?hehe...for whom? What message is this errand boy bringing and for what purpose and who would send HIM as messenger? (This would be another conspiracy theory imy book, you seem to be implying Osama is acting on behalf of other unkown agents...is that not a conspiracy?)


Breifly as i can:
Osamam fought i afghanistan w/ the Mujihadeem backed by the USA against the russians. They won...hurray! Osama has pride and confidence in his army of rebels... oh joy!

fast forward a couple years, and Iraq invades Kuwait. Oh no cry the Saudis to america, please help us we cannot have Iraq on our border!!! Dont worry says Osama, my mujihadeem will fend them off! The saudi royal family takes one look at Osamas rag tag army, chuckles slightly and then calls to the US again to intervene (which we do quite gladly)
Osamam is pissed! Pissed at the Saudi Royal Family, pissed at the US. He becomes further enraged when after the conflict, US bases remain on Muslim holy ground. (is it completely wacko to blame us the USA? no doubt, dude your country invited us i there to protect you!)

And there you have it. Errand boy? hardly. INsane fanatic, most definetly.

Hope that helps some, its an abbreviated hstory of the conflict and Osamas rationale as best as it can be described , but I think fairly accurate.

chives,

This whole thing started 50 years ago and has a bigger purpose than anyone person. Names like Arafat and Bin Laden are just more notable than others. Binny is an errand by for Muhamed and mainstream Islam.

Oh I see.
So muslims are bent upon global islamic domination..is that it?

I'd like to say thats ludicrous, but in fact I cannot blame you for thinking that way because that is what these peope ARE saying. Kill the infidels, spread Islam throughout the land.

It would be nice if Islamic leaders stood up and denounced terror and these kind of statements of global domination but they do not. Perhaps they fear being veiwed as toadies of the west if they do so. Unfortunately for them if they do not distance themselves from these fanatics and get some control over them , the west will be forced to do it ourselves and that will not be very pretty or comfortable for them.

Now, 50 years ago we installed Israel.
The root of the problem in that region, undeniably. Hard to carve a homeland out of territory of people that hate you most and expect them not to get a tad miffed. What is to be done about that now? Should we relocate Israel to Miami Beach?

Osama hmself has given his reasons for the attack, and it is not to spread Islam, not because of US support for Israel. He said he did it because of infidel presence on muslim holy lands (he is referring here to the saudi bases left over from Gulftrot 1). So yes israel and yes islamic global domination , but more than anything else the guy just seems to be a loose screw whose ego was bruised because his mighty army of rebels, the army that repelled the largest super power on the planet (I saw Rambo three...it wasnt easy! ), was scoffed at by his own countrys leaders.

I say he's alive and well, kickin it on Dumbyas ranch with the Prez, as they drink the blood of newborn infants out of Kennedys skull.

Chives,

So muslims are bent upon global islamic domination..is that it?

No they just want Islamic law to rule their former empire.

It really started with Abraham in IraQ having two sons Issac and Ishmael and gods promise to his heir.

As far as the modern issue it ultimately relates back to the confilct over Issac and Ishmael but as far as Bin Laden is concerned it started before Isreal in Saudi Arabia. Pres Truman broke a promise to King Saud not to vote for Isreal and this angered the Islamic clerics in SA. Bin Laden was educated by these clerics as where others. They went on to educate others and it has been spreading ever since.

whoa...cool Kingy. didnt know all that Ismael and Issacc stuff. Gonna have to look into that.

After some brief research i gotta say....

Oh man, that Issac and Ishmael schtick is some whacky goofball stuff. If they're realy pissed about something like that, we should just get it over with and nuke em now, save us the 'tweener years of dealing with lunatics.

I have just lurked around for quit a while. Hate to make this my first post. I hope that you are just poking fun if not you should be ashamed of your self. If you are going to make alligations about any one make DAMN sure you have facts to back it up or you are just what you are standing in! The facts that you stated are about as good as Michael moores facts. Give it up man guys like you will never make a difference because no one in there right mind is going to by into it!

Well, since you're new here and obviously don't know how to play our little game (although it seems you've read up on the Cheney School of Debate), here's what you need to do: if you don't think the above posted has any merit or is not fact based, then please by all means post your facts to refute it. Otherwise you're just what you're standing in (whatever that means). And please make your arguments better than bush and Cheney; no one's buying those anymore.

Careful Jeremy --- Bunch of lefties in here. Problem is most of em can string together a complete thought. Fun to watch the debates though. Step in at the wrong time and nobody can be resposible for the flaming you're likely to get in return.

VH did start a fire and run though --- where ya at?

I've been fishing with ........"TheMillionare".

Nah, just following the fishing side. I didn't think anybody would find much interest in my theory. So I guess I should respond to some questions that were thrown my way.

NZZL:
My theory has nothing to do with whether we should be in Iraq or not. It is about being LIED to by the POTUS. And why couldn't they keep this a secret? They've kept it secret who Cheny met in the White House for our national energy policy. Why couldn't they keep secret what happens in a cave 10,000 miles away?


THEKING:

What part of my logic seemed convoluted to you? I laid out a series of facts and observations. They pretty much tied themselves together to a solid conclusion.


JEREMY:

OReilly hasn't done you any favors. I'd suggest more NPR and less FOX NEWS.

V,

It's just another grand conspiracy theory from the left to paint Bush in a poor light. One can go out on the web and find support for any such endeavor. The truth lies in the fact that over the many many years people have been dreaming up these convoluted theories very few if any pass the test of time. Did you here the one about OBL and GW being gay lovers?

lets recap the past twenty five years or so:

Kennedy-pretty SURE Oswald didnt act alone . Most likely snuffed out by (Rep controlled)CIA. Anyone believe Oswald acted alone? Just a lone gunman a cooky commie? haha.

NIxon (Rep.)-Well we KNOW he tried to cover up the bugging of the dem national headquarters.

Reagan (Rep)-we are pretty SURE arms were traded for drugs to help finance the contras. Anyone care to defend that lil "conspiracy" theory?

Bush 2 (Rep.)-we KNOW there were no wmds.
and we are pretty SURE about the other lies. Time will bear out what lies arent covered up sufficiently, or maybe a senile old Bush 2 will take the stand and say like reagan did "Mommy? I cant remember."

I think the biggest Dem conspiracy you can point to is a blowjob from a chubby intern.
Coincidence all these totally evil plots are Rep generated? or maybe we liberals just like to pick in the poor ole honest and forthright GOP?

PS no one has to paint Bush in a bad light. Just examine his performance in ANY area of his presidency. Hell , just listen to him for two minutes. He paints himself up just fine in the idiots cloth.

Chives see even in your own example you are 50% wrong.

No proof just conspiracy on the Kennedy case. If it where true the only longer coverup has been Roswell

Reagan never ws a conspiracy theory and from day one their was direct evidence.

Nixons tent folded in short order and all the facts where know an proven in th epublic arena.

WMD, What the left consistantly leaves out is there where 10 reasons to go to war each one of them valid . Secondly indepandant review in both England and the US have concluded it was bad info and not an attempt to Lie, cheat or steal. Even your boy Billy Clinton said there was WMD in Iraq well into the invaison. He even said the Iraq war would last less than 2 weeks. Hate the guy all you want but at least get the facts straight.

Nov. 2004 video of Bin ladens prior to the election. Verrified by almost every nation as being Bin Laden on the tape.

Sure they can so much so that it will stand up in court as evidence. You need to look into voice print and related video technology. Almost as good a DNA technology.

You been watching too many movies

I only need to refute one point to refute all of them. There is an accepted video showing that he is alive. So any and all of his points are moot. Except that it would make a great Tom clancy book.

TheKing:

First of all which "accepted" video are you referring to? And I challenge you to give me the name of the individual/s who will accept responsibility for authenticating it. 'intelligence officials' doesnt count either. Did you follow any of the links I gave? Did you get a chance to look at some stills from previously "authenticated" video? Is that the best our Intel can do for us?

Is the notion that Generallismo Busho is telling you lies to much for you to handle?

My theory does not rest on any single one of my points. It is not a web based conspiracy. Its a VHawk based conspiracy. Suspicions which hardened over time and with repeated news stories which didn't quite fit together. It would NOT be that hard to keep quiet. I sat in a ravine near Dodger Stadium back in May of 1992 for three days, with 1,600 other Army National Guard troops. The media was reporting that all the Guardsmen called up for the LA Riots had been sent home. The people in charge were worried that the riots would start up again as soon as we were gone, so they 'hid' us out in some ravine. They 'hid' 1,600 soldiers in uniform in Los Angeles. Nobody reported we were there. No reporters, and no media copter's ever bothered us. If those idiots can hide a battalion of troops in LA, they can make a body in a cave 10,000 miles away disappear.


If there was one single story reported in the mass media that completely convinced me it was the one regarding the Swiss research institute which tried to verify a audio tape that "unnamed US intelligence officials" were 100% sure was OBL. They came to the exact opposite conclusion.
Why don't you do your own Google research on that story? I'll provide this link again, but you can find numerous sources from credible news organizations. Swiss research group

Actually while searching for links to post on the board I found the follow up to that story which makes it even better. The Swiss were asked to verify another tape and they refused. The WH had no comment of course.

V


"My theory does not rest on any single one of my points."

Sure it does. Bin Laden has to be dead for anyone of your points to have merit.

"individual/s who will accept responsibility for authenticating it. 'intelligence officials' doesnt count either"

Well since you want to exclude the very groups in each country that has the most expirience at it will you take the old man down the streets word for it?

How about I use the fact that some parasite like Michale Moore did not make a movie about it as proof. Certainly he or Stuart Smallie would have jumped that boat ? Nope none of the main stream conspiracy big wigs will touch it but some nurse from Olympia has it nailed. I bet the CIA is holding you back from taking this Holywood?

Seriously, Try and sell it. Better yet hock everything you own and make a movie. It's how spike lee and MM got started. Take it to the American people don't keep it a secret any longer. I bet all you get out of it is free room and board at a fine establishment on a big lake in Whatcom co?

Check my last post I made some edits.

And as for the mockery...I could care less. They mocked the hell out of the guy who said peptic ulcers were caused by bacteria. Now they pay the guy good money to speak.

All I did was go through the 'checkables'. Info that was available through public sources.

TK, don't confuse a conclusion with its premise. I've taken college logic. Your having some trouble with telling the two apart. Don't assume I only took classes for my bach nursing degree either, because I spent too much money taking extra classes for personal interest.

When you say "nurse from Olympia", you better say it with some respect. Else I'll have AuntyM thumbwrestle you into submission.

Wow, he's so desparate he's now argueing with himself. Attagirl.

I want a PERSON to attach thier name to the claim that it is OBL on the audio or video tape. Such as Dick, George, Karl, Donny, or whoever it is that is now the CIA Director. I want a quote that says "I am the Director of X, we have verified this tape to be OBL". All you can find are unnamed sources. No actual spokesperson makes the claim.

So unnamed US intelligence officials are reporting that 'TheKing', makes a living selling carp tacos out behind the Salvation Army. Wow you can't refute that. It comes from an unnamed US intelligence official. Gee, those same officials also tell me that you don't even bother trying to fairhook those goldfish when you catch them. Dang your a bad man.
Unnamed sources are just as dangerous as relying on anonymous sources. In fact thats what they are, anonymous. How do you challenge a source that won't reveal itself?

And of course this all from the same WH that made the claim "Its completely ridiculous to think Mr Rove had anything to do with revealing the name of a CIA operative."

Vhawk,

That quote may very well be out there or it may not be. But the absence of it does not prove anything. It is your standard and your standard alone. A liberal biased profit motivated press would have been all over this a long time ago where there any merit. If you want to claim the same outcome as the guy who said ulcers where caused by bacteria lets see the same methodology and burden of proof he was required to use to prove his claim.

Which of my premises do you find fault with?
Pick one. Is it the one where I make the observation that GW is not interested in OBL personally?
Maybe you've found fault with the reported 'power struggles' within Al Qaeda?
Give me something concrete. The majority of what I gave to support my conclusion were FACTS, things that actually happened and were widely reported. I can't provide proof if you don't tell me what it is you find fault with.

The news media, left or right, does not have complete control over which stories develop legs. Otherwise Libby Montana would have been GW's downfall. Yea I bet nobody knows what the hell I am talking about. Its the real reason Christy Todd Whitman resigned in the middle of her term.

I'll give you all a clue. Its related to the air around the fallen Towers.


Have fun. I have a poker tourney in Shelton to win.

AM,

http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000267


Go to this thread on this very topic from June 2004 and read your comments. Then you will understand why I posted that to mock those that are now on the other band wagon because a fellow lib carries the banner

Thats the problem with you people zero consistancy

Not the asbestos theory tell me you did not go there. You need to break into t he Pharm and hit the psychotropics

vhawk I dont listen nor watch orielly. The guy really irritates me. Why would you jump you conclision like that. Did I mention him in my responce, no. Did I mention that I dont listen to npr, no. Once again you just believe what you wish to believe and that is fine you have the right but dont expect to change any ones mind that way. Once again show me facts 100 percent facts. That should be the only way to convince anyone not conspiricy theorys.

And you sure as hell aren't going to convince anyone because you spell properly either, so knock it off!!!!!

Did you ask your Presidente for 100% "facts" that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction?? Of course not, you had all the assurance you needed when the named officials guaranteed it...

Life must be great when you don't have to think for yourself!

IOKIYR.

TK,

The 'medications' thing is cliche. It serves to illuminate nothing except a lack of substance to your argument. Unless of course your goal is to turn this post into a flame war and thus get the topic locked. That would be a typical neocon tactic. If you can't win the argument then shout over it, or shut it up.

Jeremy,

If you don't like O'Reilly then you need to reread your posts. They contain nothing of intellectual interest. Just like the Fox choir boy.
If you want the facts then just go to the original post. Tell me what in particular you disagree with. DO NOT JUST TELL ME I AM A F"N LIB so ergo I AM FULL OF BS. When you do that you sound like a junior neocon choir boy.


What I think is most revealing out of all this dialogue is how a neocon can change his position 180 degrees if someone challenges Generalissimo El Busho. Very impressive when I read how TK agrees with me on the very basic point the OBL is dead, unless of course it somehow makes El Busho look bad. Then Gawd Almighty I must be on drugs to believe that kind of wild conspiracy.

And the asbestos tragedy in Libby is not a theory. Hundreds of miners and their families are dying as we write.

click here Dept Health Human Services

As many people as died in the Pentagon attacks will very likely die as a result of cover up of the contamination. Don't disrespect your fellow countrymen just because it makes your political party look bad. One of the heroes of the story also happens to be a Republican. Too bad El Generalissimo didn't appreciate her respect for the working man. Oh and of course Dick was running the very company that was covering up the tremolite asbestos contamination of HOUSING INSULATION, and POTTING SOIL. Tremolite is such a pathogenic form of asbestos that even the families of miners were getting lung disease.

Anyone interested should look up Andrew Schneider on Google. He was the former Seattle PI reporter who helped break this story. Nice guy. I traded a few emails with him.

Very Interesting topics.

Vhawk,

The big difference in my post vs yours is mine was a year ago and I never pointed to a big conspiracy theory. Since then the video appeared. Case closed.

Okay, Im pretty sure Ive got this whole thing figured out for real now. here goes:

The Saudis in conjunction with the Bush administration, working closely with Al-Queda, who are really just the pawns of Major League baseball, under strict orders from Marge Schott who is actually working for the JDL, who in turn are mere pawns of the Skulls, working closely with the Reverse Vampires and in strict accordance with the SALT treaties, under the guise of KGB operatives working for the ghost of Ronald Reagan, who is actually a supernatural stooge for the MultiGlobal Oil Conglomerate are soley responsible and the thing is they think we dont know that they know that we know about the cnspiracy, but since we DO know, then they might be under the assupmption that we are pretending we do not know whereas and therefore when if they find out that we Do know to we need to be prepared. i suggest the following items be kept at arms reach: Duct tape, yellow ribbon, tin foil, plastic sheeting, two gallons of fresh water and a glock. The signal that the revolution has begun will be when the Texas Rangers win the world series.

Cannot work chives you know all the CT's like that revolve around a Jewish plot to control the money and therefore the world. Zog and all that stuff.

I included the JDL in there King, I tried to get a little bit of everyone involved..but mostly it boils down to major league baseball and the 72 Oakland A's. You see at that time Rollie fingers was working for the CIA, in conjunction with the JEWS!, who are actually just pawns of the Bi-Coastal intelligencia working in direct cooperation with the Unitarian church and the Steamfitters Union Local 257 have tapped into the water suply in the southwest with the explicit intent of influencing the outcome of Major League Baseball! Which in turn wouod lead to Dubya losing the Texas Rangers and eventually becoming president of the USA, for the explicit purpose of invading Iraq...this is all of course at the behest of the reverse triple vampire winged monkey lords from Saturn.

So there it is, its as obvious as day, I dont know why you people refuse to open your eyes and see the horrible truth. Major League baseball must be destroyed! Death to Bud Selig!

don't mention the Grays. People will complain. Trust me.


TK you never did follow the link regarding the faked videos. I'll take your argument more seriously when you can find the time to actually look at the evidence I presented. Its evident that you have not.

V,

I looked at the link. Any one that has spent anytime behind a camera knows that different equipement brings about different results. I could take 6 picuters of you with 3 different cameras from different angles and it would be hard for someone not familiar with you to know they where all you.

TK, your telling me these two guys are actually the same guy, just bad lighting? And your suggesting I'm the one needing medication?





I suppose since some US intelligence person said it was OBL it must be. But then of course those "unnamed US intelligence officials" also verified the authenticity of the 'Niger Memo'.

click here Video Fake

V,

The lunar landing was all a big fake also.

Some nut job assembled photos specifically to make his point look more plausable. If you had all the frames in sequence not editied for effect you would see the same person. I could take as many photos of you from video tape and do the same thing. If you cannot see that then hit the meds

TK,

I'm not in this argument to convince you of anything. This is more for those people who have not considered that OBL might already be dead.
You're so engaged with the strange proposition that Bush would never deceive you, that you've closed you mind to anything that would challenge that belief. This is obvious from your 180 degree flop from earlier in this post.

This is your opportunity to explain why you changed your mind on OBL being dead.


BTW, I'm pretty sure you really don't believe the crap you write. I'm starting to believe you might also be TheMillionare.

No I think...........theMillionaire is a real person. Ive personally seen him and his buddy Dubya tossing car batteries into the Lewis.

No way. Look at the spelling and grammar of ...................theMillionare. Even typing French he is more capable of the English language than Elvis. I hear Rawlins cringes everytime Elvis brings up his WSU credentials and Edward R. Murrow rolls over in his grave with every journalism claim.

V,

3 tapes and one video. I thought OBL was dead and I can see the strategic reasons why we might hide that fact. Evidence now suggests otherwise.

3 bogus audio tapes, and one poor video, is that all it takes to convince you? I find that to be a poor excuse made after the fact. Since those audio and video tapes were all available when you posted that you also thought OBL was dead.

I stand by my assertion that you changed your mind when you realized my theory made Generalissimo Busho look like a punk.

"I stand by my assertion that you changed your mind when you realized my theory made Generalissimo Busho look like a punk."


V,

Knock yourself out Brah!

Just another bit of news that follows recognized patterns. This is from the AP wire.


See first post on this thread. The quote below is from the list of findings that led me to suspect that OBL was already dead.

Now curious new information has come to me by way of friend. The missile strike that first reportedly killed Ayman al-Zawahri, then reportedly did not kill him, then reportedly killed other Al Queda members is more of the same manipulation of news by Company officials.

Well Al-Zawahri is dead, and tissue samples are being sent to Dover for analysis. Minds were changed on whether to release that information. Seems that electronic surveillance would be of more use if mid level Al Queada management thought that he was alive. Communication links would be available whereby terrorist suspects would think they were communicating with their boss, but instead would be chatting with American intel officers.

Why would this information be released through backchannels, and informally to people who will disseminate this information via blogs and BBS postings? Because it creates confusion and mistrust in Al Queda's command and communication structure. If they are unsure what communiques are from thier leadership and which are from the CIA then plans begin to break down. If they are unsure whether their leaders are even alive or not, planning and execution of plans begins to break down.

Maybe Osama will "be dead" just in time for a triumphant announcement before the November elections.

i wouldnt be suprised at all if he is dead......there is no limit to the depths that this administration will sink to......they are a sickening smear on this country

Let me put on my foil hat and channel Rmatha for the answer.

Vhawk,
You say Osama is dead and the tape that came out the other day was fake. We know that every decison the Bush administration makes is for domestic political purposes. So if Osama is dead, what's the domestic political advantage to the Bu****es of concealing that info and faking tapes?

So GW can justify domestic spying. He can then spy on Vinny and find out where the salmon are pooling what glasses to wear and what holes to fish next fall.

Suckersnagger,

The answer to your question is in the first post of this thread. By having the 'boogeyman' running around alive, the American people give Bush free reign to do whatever he feels he needs to, in order to "Protect the American People". But if Bin Laden is dead then more Americans might start to wonder "WTF is this guy doing?"

There are very good reasons from an intelligence and counterterrorism viewpoint that can be made to not publish Bin Ladens death. I think it is for those reasons that his death continues to be kept secret. If there were no reasons other then political, it would seriously piss off the career spooks. Bush is stupid, but is he stupid enough to really piss off the career CIA guys?


JLH,

Very interesting link. I also thought that the content of the last tape sounded nothing like the crap OBL spouted off during the 90's. Its funny to read that the biographer thinks OBL is dead as well.

TK, it is flattering to know that you pay such close attention to my advice . I hope your learning something. Maybe if you ask real nice I can teach you how to fish. BTW G.HW.Bush wouldn't have to spy on me, I'd take him along. I liked Pappy Bush. Its his son that I'd like to use as a float for an oversized crabpot.

Fear was this admins campaign slogan. Hard for people to be afraid of a dead guy.

On a side note....does anyone know if GW can see his reflection in a mirror? I've been wondering about that.

Vince,

The Republican media machine is cranking that the last Osama tape sounded just like anti-war Democrats. Could that be intentional?

Sure it is. OBL and the boys want the dems in power who would not. I can think of no easier enemy than the liberals. Just look to Spain to see how easy an enemy they are to fight.

So is it fear when you have locks on your doors, you don't leave valuable fishing gear in your vehicle on the rivers? that you insist on background checks at schools etc. where others supervise your kids. Or is it common sense?

Iuse a lot of common sense to protect my family and home and I have never met anyone that caused me fear. I have seen some rough places.

NO, its fear that makes idiots think it is a good idead to frisk little old ladies at the airport, it is fear that makes some people believe that taking away my nail clippers will keep us safe, it is fear that has given one egomaniac the consent to put hundreds of thousands of soldiers in harms way for what has turned out to be lies.


If you've never meet anyone who has made you feel afraid then something is lacking in you. Its a natural mechanism of self protection. But cowardice and fear are not the same thing.

KT said, "So is it fear when you have locks on your doors, you don't leave valuable fishing gear in your vehicle on the rivers? that you insist on background checks at schools etc. where others supervise your kids. Or is it common sense?

Iuse a lot of common sense to protect my family and home and I have never met anyone that caused me fear. I have seen some rough places."

Sure, it's fear that causes us to lock doors and take other precautions. Fear occurs in degrees. And it is common sense to have a reasonable amount of fear based about what is known about potential threats.

You must live in a rough neigborhood to have a security system at your gate, or did you just make that up to serve one of your posts?

"You must live in a rough neigborhood to have a security system at your gate, or did you just make that up to serve one of your posts?"

I installed video so my wife can see who is coming through the gate. Our driveway is nearly a mile long and you cannot see the road or another house from our home. We had a few things stolen and an attempted break in from a local with bi polar. Pretty safe area really.

vhawk,
I too think he has been dead all along.
If they keep the american people scared,
then they can keep getting what they want,
when they want.

"Well Al-Zawahri is dead, and tissue samples are being sent to Dover for analysis."

It appears that ol Al is alive and kicking. Maybe it's Robert duvall playing him for GW and the boys?


http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/01/30/D8FF60781.html


Hey Vinny any hot tips on the stock market?

hey tk-how does tim eyeman taste??????? better than rory?

Funny they cut the video off before the white American in dark glasses hands Al-Zawahri a big briefcase of cash. These videos really help keep GW's sheep in line. Al-Zawahri seems to be an ally.

You seem a bright guy Vhawk'. Therefore why the contradiction about W. He is a dummy per your comments and yet he is, a Harvard Alumni, A trained by DOD fighter pilot irregardless of alleged duty evasions. An ex govenor of the State of Texas. And after all that he makes Kerry, Gore and the DNC look like special ed. children, but not as loveable.
I hope you are right about Osama. If that means the POTUS has been a part of deluding the American voter, I guess that puts him in good company, FDR and HST come to mind when we talk about misleading the American voter. Nixon too.

Sardonicus, you sure do sanitize Bush’s resume!

Hard to tell if you really believe your line since your posts so rarely have any substantive content.

Bush was a preppy at Andover.

He was admitted to Yale on a legacy despite a poor academic performance at Andover. (A legacy is a silver spoon admission. It means his family was rich and some of them had attended Yale.)

At Yale he was a frat boy, a drunk, and a cheerleader. He took no advantage of the opportunity to get an education, but was graduated anyway,with a gentleman’s C, because of his family connections.

He was denied admission to law school, despite his family connections, because of his dismal performance on the law school admissions exam.

He was admitted to Harvard Business School, which emphasizes family connections. He is not a Harvard alumnus! Big difference between Harvard and Harvard Business School! His teachers at the business school remember him as a dolt. That’s remarkable, since doltish little rich boys aren’t all that unusual at the business school.

He was admitted to a Texas air national guard "champagne unit" for sons of the rich and powerful to escape danger during the Vietnamese War, where he was trained as a pilot, despite ranking low in qualifications for admission, because of…let’s hear it again…his family connections.

His entry into the oil business was also due to family connections and financing. He failed there too.

Karl Rove got Bush elected governor of Texas, exploiting (as always) lies, smears, and Bush’s family connections. And how is that a testimony to any personal capability on Bush’s part?

The sad truth is that Bush has failed at everything he has ever attempted, other than playing pliable puppet to Karl Rove’s ambition to be the power behind the throne of a president.

His failure as president is part of a lifelong pattern of failure. If it were not for his…one more time!…family connections, Bush would be lucky to be managing a 7-11.

Lol. SuckerSnagger you make W sound more like a Kennedy than anything else. I guess he should have gone to Hollywood. He must be very good at reading his lines. And I always thought he was handicapped in the public speaking facet of politics. I stated the obvious facts in my prior post. How do we ascertain your comments are 'facts' rather than just sour grapes? If it is so easy for such a misfit to be elected president, I'm truly surprised that Kerry didn't win. It wasn't for lack of funding, Just ask G Soros and Teresa Heinz.

Damn, I can't argue with that Aunty M. I have never professed a love for W. Just he was easily the lesser of two evils. Besides I don't argue with folks that use the term "Illuminati."

If it's funding then there's your answer. The big money won both elections. The anti christ is the lesser of two evils.....

Sardonicus,


Nope, Al Zwahiri is alive. There were short hopes that he might have been killed. Lots of conflicting intel both before and after the attack. It turned into something of a mess.

As for being a genius, well I think the only genius would be Karl Rove. He got Georgie where he is today. Just imagine Georgie without Rove and Cheney to hold his hands (behind his back?). But political genius is different then being a good leader. Knowing how to get sheep to the polls is a different skill then learning how to manage a country.

VHawk

" Knowing how to get sheep to the polls is a different skill then learning how to manage a country."
Vhawks comment is right on. Kinda explains the O guys fumbles and
dropped opportunities.

Thanks to George Bush, whos policies made it possible to find him.

Wrong, a DNA match was made after a local Pakistani physician who thought he might have helped Bin Laden notifed US authorities and provided DNA evidence....Thats how they found him. I'd say all those bombs and dollars Bush spent on Bin laden were serving a different purpose.

Is that the doctor that Pakistan arrested? I couldnt find anything on snopes.