I just read an article last week that said officers where most likely to violate the mandatory rule for body armor. I see if I can find it.

I just talked to a few NCOs recently back from Iraq. I wonder which has more credibility?

Just like AM and BW a few or one conversation means everyone is like that. Keep trying to get those two brain cells to line up. Maybe you can ask someone if they want fries with their order and earn a promotion.

I have several close friends, and fellow coworkers who have done atleast 2 tours in Iraq, and am quite sure they are everybit as creditable as the NCO's you talked with "goharley" and all of them said that the body armor they were issued was to heavy, hot, and uncomfortable. And that when on a patrol very few ever wore the complete issue, nor did very many of the marines on those patrols.

Well, I can only tell you that the guys I talked with today said that there were a few "stupid ones" that would remove a plate or two. But they said those were definately the minority. They did say it was usually the drivers that removed the back plate because it hurt when driving a Stryker.

They have some vests they brought back that prove their effectiveness. One took a direct hit from an RPG; another took three rounds in the center of the chest. Both guys are alive today.

They also said that after wearing it awhile you don't notice it. So maybe some guys weren't in an environment where it was as necessary as others.

I don't doubt their crdibility, gv, but if given the choice between face-to-face accounts by Stryker NCOs versus an obscure article written by someone interpretting what a public relations officer told them, well, that's a no-brainer.

GH, I agree actuall conversations with people actually involved carry alot more weight than, an article written by some unknown person (if this article even exists).
They people I've talked with, to removed the back plate as well, they never really said why. They almost were always on foot patrol, so the "driving" reason wouldnt hold up.
Wasnt trying to cast doubt on your statement, it just seemed to me that maybe for once TK was saying something that could be confirmed by others.

Heat dissapation is the reason you would remove the back plate. If you have ever backpacked it would make sense. Harley I never questioned the effectiveness of the equipement. I questioned wheter it was as big an issue as the press makes it out to be or is it just another I hate Bush propaganda piece.

Families over react as well. Listen to the hand wringers on the main board talk about water safety. I grew up on the rivers here and the salt. I don't know anyone that has ever used a life jacket. Is it safer? sure it is. I wear one now when I have the kids with me but I still do not when alone. Never will.

No it is not a law enacted for a good reason. If our laws intent is to save lives then they would not allow people to drive since nearly 50k a year die in cars. They would not allow people to over eat etc. Kids drowning in boating mishaps might make the top 10,000 reasons kids die list.Their parents are more dangerous but you do not need a licsense to parent.

"If it costs us less financially and emotionally to "over-react" with life saving extra body armor, we should be doing it."

Agreed but lets not allow people to play politics or blow it out of proportion on either side of the isle. It's my only point in this whole discussion.

Take it a step further and make your point even more idiotic by saying that if we were really interested in saving lives we would prevent births from taking place.

The mushroom cloud thing was not blowing things out of proportion.

It is Our Glorious Leader's perogotive as CIC to tell the American people whatever to rally them behind any war he chooses to start!

It was a risk well worth taking. Looks like we get to see it play out all over again WRT Iran.
But I suppose you all think that Iran saying that it's for peaceful purposes in one breath and saying Isreal should be wiped off the face of the earth in the next breath are mutually exlusive ideas? If not you will probably say its none of our business what another country does lets let them self determine. While you look up sex offenders and insist that your kids school not hire them.

You're right Aunty M. It's really boring around here. If the rivers fell into shape I might even go out and fish for old dark summer runs while the Westsiders load up on chrome.

Oh, now you think it's a good thing for schools to hire sex offenders? Next thing you know you will be trying to get Sol hired as the high school girls volleyball coach.

TK's drunk.

"It was only worth the risk in your opinion and the majority of Americans don't agree with you."

A majority of Americans are not informed of the issues and theirs like yours is an emotional response not a logical response.

"As to Iran, I sure hope you're planning on enlisting soon, because this Army is just about maxed out."

looks like the Euroweeenies will get involved in this one. They will talk themselves blue in the face first unless Isreal gets froggy and lights things off.

SS,

"Oh, now you think it's a good thing for schools to hire sex offenders? Next thing you know you will be trying to get Sol hired as the high school girls volleyball coach. "

Both actions are preemptive. It seems it is OK to take preemptive actions for personal safety but not national security. Its Ok to lose 3000 people doing nothing but not 2000 trying to stop it.

2000? I was just reading yesterday that best estimates are around 100,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed. God knows what the toll of civilian wounded is.

And we have around 15,000 wounded ourselves. Kinda tough being 20 years old looking forward to a life with no legs.

I would respect the man for accepting the possible outcome of his decison to go into such a career. I would not belittle him by assuming he would need or want my sympathy. We have multiple purple hearts in my Family and you were a fool to go down that road with any of the recipients.

Jeez TK! Weren't you ever young? When I joined the army the possibility of being killed or maimed never entered my mind. If young guys thought about things like that the way middle aged men do, not many would join the army!

"decision to go into such a career" my a$$!