Check

 

Defiance Boats!

LURECHARGE!

THE PP OUTDOOR FORUMS

Kast Gear!

Power Pro Shimano Reels G Loomis Rods

  Willie boats! Puffballs!

 

Three Rivers Marine

 

 
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#172066 - 01/19/06 04:49 PM The poor are getting poorer
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
And other liberal myths.


The poverty hype Jan 4, 2006 by Walter E. Williams

Despite claims that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, poverty is nowhere near the problem it was yesteryear -- at least for those who want to work. Talk about the poor getting poorer tugs at the hearts of decent people and squares nicely with the agenda of big government advocates, but it doesn't square with the facts.

Dr. Michael Cox, economic adviser to the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, and Richard Alm, a business reporter for the Dallas Morning News, co-authored a 1999 book, "Myths of Rich and Poor: Why We're Better Off Than We Think," that demonstrates the pure nonsense about the claim that the poor get poorer.

The authors analyzed University of Michigan Panel Study of Income Dynamics data that tracked more than 50,000 individual families since 1968. Cox and Alms found: Only five percent of families in the bottom income quintile (lowest 20 percent) in 1975 were still there in 1991. Three-quarters of these families had moved into the three highest income quintiles. During the same period, 70 percent of those in the second lowest income quintile moved to a higher quintile, with 25 percent of them moving to the top income quintile. When the Bureau of Census reports, for example, that the poverty rate in 1980 was 15 percent and a decade later still 15 percent, for the most part they are referring to different people.

Cox and Alm's findings were supported by a U.S. Treasury Department study that used an entirely different data base, income tax returns. The U.S. Treasury found that 85.8 percent of tax filers in the bottom income quintile in 1979 had moved on to a higher quintile by 1988 -- 66 percent to second and third quintiles and 15 percent to the top quintile. Income mobility goes in the other direction as well. Of the people who were in the top one percent of income earners in 1979, over half, or 52.7 percent, were gone by 1988. Throughout history and probably in most places today, there are whole classes of people who remain permanently poor or permanently rich, but not in the United States. The percentages of Americans who are permanently poor or rich don't exceed single digits.

It doesn't take rocket science to figure out why people who are poor in one decade are not poor one or two decades later. First, they get older. Would anyone be surprised that 30, 40 or 50-year-olds earn a higher income than 20-year-olds? The 1995 Annual Report of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas found that "Average income tends to rise quickly in life as workers gain work experience and knowledge. Households headed by someone under age 25 average $15,197 a year in income. Average income more than doubles to $33,124 for 25- to 34-year-olds. For those 35 to 44, the figure jumps to $43,923. It takes time for learning, hard work and saving to bear fruit."

The Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas report listed a few no-brainer behaviors consistent with upward income mobility. Households in the top income bracket have 2.1 workers; those in the bottom have 0.6 workers. In the lowest income bracket, 84 percent worked part time; in the highest income bracket, 80 percent worked full time. That translates into: Get a full-time job. Only seven percent of top income earners live in a "nonfamily" household compared to 37 percent of the bottom income category. Translation: Get married. At the time of the study, the unemployment rate in McAllen, Texas, was 17.5 percent, while in Austin, Texas, it was 3.5 percent. Translation: If you can't find a job in one locality, move to where there are jobs.

The Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas report concludes, "Little on this list should come as a surprise. Taken as a whole, it's what most Americans have been told since they were kids -- by society, by their parents, by their teachers."

Dr. Williams has served on the faculty of George Mason University in Fairfax, VA, as John M. Olin Distinguished Professor of Economics, since 1980.

Copyright © 2006 Creators Syndicate, Inc.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

Top
#172067 - 01/19/06 05:51 PM Re: The poor are getting poorer
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1459
Loc: Third stone from the sun
More bad news for the 'enlightened' liberal economists who say Bush 43's tax cuts haven't helped to stimulate the economy out of the recession he inherited from Slick Willy
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jobless claims fall 36,000, lowest since 2000

Reuters WASHINGTON - The number of U.S. workers making new claims for unemployment benefits tumbled unexpectedly last week to 271,000, their lowest level in nearly six years, the government said on Thursday in a report suggesting a robust labor market.

The Labor Department said initial claims for state jobless aid fell 36,000 in the week ended January 14 from a revised 307,000 the prior week. That was the largest one-week drop since late September, and brought initial claims to their lowest level since April 2000, when they were 257,000.

Wall Street economists had forecast initial claims would rise to 315,000 from the initially reported 309,000 the prior week.

A Labor Department analyst said there were no special factors behind last week's drop, but noted that there is typically extra volatility in the data around the holidays.

The four-week moving average of initial claims, which smooths weekly volatility for a more reliable indication of underlying employment trends, fell by 12,000 to 299,000, the lowest level since October 2000.

The report also showed that the number of people still on the jobless rolls after drawing an initial week of aid dropped by 158,000 to 2.53 million in the week ended January 7, the latest for which these data are available. This was the largest one-week decline in continued claims since November 2001, when they dropped by 220,000, and brought continued claims to the lowest level since February 2001.

Wall Street economists had forecast continued claims to rise to 2.68 million in the January 7 week.

Federal Reserve officials believe strong U.S. growth has lifted the economy close to full employment -- a theoretical concept indicating the lowest level of unemployment the United States can sustain without triggering wage inflation.

The unemployment rate dropped to 4.9 percent in December despite lackluster job growth of just 108,000 last month.


Copyright 2006 Reuters News Service. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Copyright © 2006 ABC News Internet Ventures
_________________________
"Yes, I would support raising taxes"--Kanektok Kid

Top
#172068 - 01/19/06 05:59 PM Re: The poor are getting poorer
stever in everett Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/17/99
Posts: 774
Loc: Everett, WA USA
Wages have not kept pace with inflation.
Sorry tk I said that I wouldn't post any more facts. My 98% level is slipping again. I'll try to post more irrelevant stuff later.

"Last year was the third consecutive year in which weekly wages fell, after adjusting for price changes, according to department statistics on the 92 million private production and non-managerial service workers who make up more than 80 percent of the nation's workforce."

"We're just not seeing the improvement in living standards you'd expect" in an economy that is expanding at a healthy pace and benefiting from rapid productivity growth, said Jared Bernstein, senior economist at the Economic Policy Institute, a think tank that focuses on labor issues. "It's the biggest problem in the current economy." Here is the link to the rest of the story
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...;referrer=email


Bow to the mighty tk.He know everything, just ask him. He is our man on the inside. wink
_________________________
"Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers

Top
#172070 - 01/19/06 06:09 PM Re: The poor are getting poorer
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1459
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Quote:
Tax cuts huh Rory?
zip The fact is there's more money coming into the Treasury now at the the lower tax rates than there was when they were higher.
_________________________
"Yes, I would support raising taxes"--Kanektok Kid

Top
#172073 - 01/19/06 06:43 PM Re: The poor are getting poorer
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Quote:
The fact is there's more money coming into the Treasury now at the the lower tax rates than there was when they were higher.
And yet, it still isn't keeping up with spending. Nobody spends like the Bush Administration.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

Top
#172074 - 01/19/06 07:01 PM Re: The poor are getting poorer
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
It's a good thing these lefties don't have swimming pools at their trailer parks. It would play hell even with their hard heads diving into the half empty pool.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

Top
#172075 - 01/19/06 07:04 PM Re: The poor are getting poorer
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Your kids will pay it off for you, credit card lover.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

Top
#172076 - 01/19/06 07:05 PM Re: The poor are getting poorer
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1459
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Dan is right, we do need to cut spending, but you can't dispute the fact that Bush 43's tax cuts have worked hello --they need to be made pemanent and after Greenspan's reign ends the Fed needs to get past the out-dated reactionary theories on stagflation in our modern day evolving multifaceted economy and let the good times roll! thumbs

Quote:
Originally posted by AuntyM:
Prove it
http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/reports/revenue%20growth.jpg

December 8, 2005
JS-3039

The Honorable John W. Snow
Prepared Remarks to PricewaterhouseCoopers’ 2005
Global Tax Symposium


Good afternoon; thanks so much for having me here. Your symposium comes at a critical time, as major decisions impacting tax policy are pending on Capitol Hill. Talk of raising taxes is coinciding with clear, outstanding evidence of how effective lower taxes have been. Furthermore, the economic future looks bright – why would we change course? Raising taxes on investment would harm the economic recovery America has been enjoying.

In just the last week, we've learned that GDP growth was a robust 4.3 percent in the third quarter. That's strong growth for any time, and it happened when the country faced devastating natural disasters.

We also learned on Friday that 215,000 jobs were added to the payrolls in November. Job creation is the reward of strong economic growth, and November's employment report brings the total of jobs created since May of 2003 to four and a half million -- with 1.8 million new jobs created this year alone.

Wages, by the way, will be the next number to rise. Historically, when an economy enters a recession, business income tends to fall more rapidly than the incomes of workers. In the early stages of the economic expansion that follows, income tends to rise faster for business than for workers. Ultimately, however, there is always a tipping point, when incomes rise for workers and business combined, but workers once again increase their incomes faster than businesses. We're approaching that tipping point now. Once businesses have been doing well for a while, they ultimately compete those increases in income away by competing harder for labor. The result is higher wages and higher standards of living for workers.

The fact that payrolls have been growing for thirty straight months and we were able to achieve jobs gains even through a massive natural disaster like Hurricane Katrina suggests we are getting closer to the point when workers receive a greater share of economic gains. Workers can look forward to good days ahead.

Beyond numbers, the evidence of economic health is also clear to me, and to the President, when we travel the country. For example our trip to North Carolina on Monday to visit the John Deere-Hitachi plant in Kernersville where the President spoke about the vibrancy of our economy and the importance of maintaining the opportunities which make it so strong. The faces of the workers at John Deere-Hitachi are the faces of healthy economic expansion, and that means more to me and to the President than any number.

Lately it has seemed that good economic news comes almost every day. The Labor Department announced on Tuesday that the productivity of American workers increased at a 4.7 percent annual rate in the third quarter. Since productivity ultimately leads to higher wages and higher standards of living, this economic indicator is very good news for American families, both for today and for the future.

We also know that consumer confidence is rebounding, industrial production is up, early reports are that holiday sales are strong, and more Americans own their homes than ever before.

All of these are the unmistakable hallmarks of a strong economy, and each one is encouraging news for America's families.

From a government perspective, a steady stream of positive indicators has given us increased confidence that the underlying fundamentals of our economy are solid, and that our path of growth is steady. As the President has said, our best economic days are ahead of us.

When economic growth and job creation are mapped on graphs, the visual image makes clear what is happening in the economy, so I want to share it with all of you today.

The numbers, and these charts, tell a story of the impact of good tax policy.

They also remind us that changing the direction of successful economic policy – by allowing tax increases to occur -- would be a mistake.

Lower taxes – especially those that lower the cost of capital and encourage investment -- combined with sound monetary policy from the Federal Reserve, set American entrepreneurs free to do what they do best: innovate, invest, grow the economy, and create jobs. Millions of Americans have benefited from these policies either directly – through lower taxes – or indirectly through new and better jobs and greater economic security for families.

Congress this week and next week is debating tax legislation that could have an enormous impact on our economy – in particular the tax rates on dividends and capital gains.

In May 2003 when President Bush worked with Congress to enact the tax policy that lowered the rates on dividends and capital gains, there were many skeptics. Critics of the proposal disputed our view that this reform would create jobs and spur economic growth. One critic called the plan "tragic"; another leader said it was "reckless" and wouldn't create jobs.

But the past 30 months have demonstrated just how powerful those reforms were… and how mistaken our critics were. The evidence that that was the right policy prescription for America stream in every day:

• 4.5 million new jobs created;
• unemployment running lower than the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s;
• GDP growth averaging over 4.0% annually;
• household wealth at an all-time high;
• federal revenues increasing;
• U.S. equity markets rising steadily;
• Dividends paid to shareholders – millions of whom are senior citizens and middle class – are up.

There are a lot of things you can say about these statistics, but neither "tragic" nor "reckless" come to mind.

There is no question what we need to do: we must extend these good policies and not undermine economic growth. Raising taxes on investment would attack the roots of the economic recovery. I rejected the arguments of the pessimists before, and I reject them today. Gloom and doom rhetoric is absurd on a day when more Americans are working than ever before, more Americans own stock than ever before, and federal tax revenues are at an all-time high. We are experiencing record prosperity; we shouldn't punish the success of American entrepreneurs and workers with tax increases.

Reforming these tax rates have benefited our entire economy generally, and have quite directly benefited the nearly 57 million American households – that's half of all households – that own stocks either directly or through mutual funds. In fact, according to the Securities Industry Association, the median income of today's stock investor is just $65,000.

The American Shareholders Association estimates that S&P 500 shareholders will receive $201 billion in regular dividend payments this year – a 36% increase over 2002, the year before the President's tax reductions on dividends took effect. The dividend tax reduction reversed a 25-year decline in companies paying dividends to their shareholders. In fact, today seventy-seven percent of S&P companies now pay a dividend.

More than just lowering the tax burden, reducing the tax rate on dividends had an additional, fundamental benefit by reducing the disparity in the tax treatment between debt and equity financing. Before the reform, the bias in capital markets was tilted toward debt financing because of the tax code. While there is still a bias toward debt financing it has been significantly reduced. This reform is helping to reduce distortions in capital markets and is helping more companies to make more sound financing decisions by reducing distortions caused by the bias in the tax code.

One argument that was made against the President's tax plan was that it would cost the government too much revenue. But, again, the facts since 2003 have shown that the economic growth spurred by the President's tax policies have significantly swelled government coffers. In January 2004, for example, the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office projected that 2004 revenue would be $1.817 trillion. Actual revenue came in $63 billion higher – half a percent of GDP. In January 2005, CBO projected 2005 revenue would be $2.057 billion; actual revenue came in $96 billion higher – 0.7 percent of GDP.

We still have a federal budget deficit – one that is too large and that the President is firmly committed to reducing. But our deficits are not the result of lower receipts – tax revenue continues to be strong. Our deficits are overwhelmingly the result of the recession we inherited and necessary increases in spending to fight the war on terror. Deficits matter and one of our highest priorities is to achieve the President's goal of reducing our deficit to below 2.3 percent of GDP by 2009. Even in the face of increased costs to deal with this summer's hurricanes, I am confident that we will achieve this goal.

One more benefit of tax reform that I want to mention was actually a health benefit, the creation of Health Savings Accounts, which happened two years ago today. It's hard to put an exact number on this, but there are estimates that over a million Americans are now enjoying the tax and saving advantages of HSAs, and that number appears to be growing rapidly, with many large employers offering HSAs to their employees this coming year, including Wal-Mart, for example. HSAs are proving to be a break-through product that helps address the underlying problem of the affordability of health-care coverage. I think of them as super-charged IRAs for health care, designed to help individuals take more control over how their health care dollars are spent and save for future medical and retiree health expenses on a tax-free basis. Among its many benefits, an HSA puts doctors and patients back in charge of their health care purchasing decisions.

I hope you don't assume that because we were able to successfully use the tax code to create HSAs and spur growth in our economy that I'm pleased with America's tax code. As all of you well know, our tax code is not where it should be. In almost three years as Treasury Secretary, I've certainly never had anyone approach me to say the code is in good shape, don't change a thing!

You know the statistics – billions of hours of paperwork for tax filers and businesses, $140 billion dollars in lost time and money just trying to comply with our increasingly unwieldy tax code. It's easy to see that the code is a drag on economic growth in America, an unnecessary burden we all share.

At Treasury, we are reviewing the proposals from the President's Tax Reform Panel intended to simplify and streamline the tax code. I commend the work the Panel did under the leadership of the two co-chairmen, former Senators John Breaux and Connie Mack, and I look forward to making a thoughtful recommendation on reform to the President.

One thing remains true today, and will for all the days of this Presidency: we do not support tax increases. On the contrary, we support smart fiscal policy that provides oxygen and room to grow to the economic marvel that is the American economy. Our policies have been successful so far, and we want to stay on this path until every American who seeks a job can find one, and until every family that struggles to pay their bills can breathe easier.
_________________________
"Yes, I would support raising taxes"--Kanektok Kid

Top
#172078 - 01/20/06 01:11 AM Re: The poor are getting poorer
SuckerSnagger Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 528
Loc: Richland,Washington
I don't know if the poor are getting poorer or not, but the middle class sure as hell is getting poorer!
_________________________
I was on the bank.

Top
#172079 - 01/20/06 01:24 AM Re: The poor are getting poorer
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
Aside from the fact that Napoleon and Krusty don't understand the big picture, I'm sure they're pretty proud of their daddy for finally getting us out of the weakest recession in US history in just 5 short years. rolleyes
_________________________
Tent makers for Christie, 2016.

Top
#172080 - 01/20/06 10:45 AM Re: The poor are getting poorer
stever in everett Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/17/99
Posts: 774
Loc: Everett, WA USA
Rory's back!! Just out on work release like tk or did you finish you sentence. Tax cuts are fine, that is the conservative mantra but the hugh budget deficits are not. What ever happened to the ballance budget amendment. First Ragen ran up the deficit to nearly $4 trillion and now Dumbya is going to triple it. When we the tax payers were paying nearly 25% of our annaul budget just to pay the interest on the $4 trillion, what will happen when that intrest payment triples?
Oh just let Dumbya slide for the next 3 years and let the next president figure it out. After all Dumbya said" deficits don't matter".
_________________________
"Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers

Top
#172081 - 01/20/06 11:19 AM Re: The poor are getting poorer
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Stever,

What does any of that have to do with poverty? That deficit is on track to be more than cut in half by 2008. We need to cut every unneeded program we can between now and 2008. If you really want hear you libs really biotch wait until they get what they want.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

Top
#172082 - 01/20/06 12:18 PM Re: The poor are getting poorer
stever in everett Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/17/99
Posts: 774
Loc: Everett, WA USA
What is it that "THEY" want? And who is "THEY"?
tk, just trying to hijack the thread like you do. wink Are you off your meds today? You know you shouldn't stop taking them with out the doctors O.K.
_________________________
"Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers

Top
#172083 - 01/20/06 12:43 PM Re: The poor are getting poorer
lupo Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 1501
Loc: seattle wa
why encourage the liars..........rory and tk live in their own little world with views defined by conservative blogs who lie.....remember how the bush admin re-defined fast food jobs to be considered "manufacturing jbs"

lies lies lies yeah.........just redine the problem and it goes away....the glass isnt half empty or half full.....its just too large of a glass...

just ignore these flippin anti-american idiots
_________________________
"time is but the stream I go a-fishing in"- Henry David Thoreau

Top
#172084 - 01/20/06 12:51 PM Re: The poor are getting poorer
stever in everett Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/17/99
Posts: 774
Loc: Everett, WA USA
When you feel the take just give them a little line.. wait...wait... SET THE HOOK!!!! It is almost like fishing. Only difference is the type of catch.
_________________________
"Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." Will Rogers

Top
#172085 - 01/20/06 04:05 PM Re: The poor are getting poorer
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13530
I think I see what you mean, Stever, but I don't fish for carp.

Top
#1006380 - 04/02/19 09:01 PM Re: The poor are getting poorer [Re: SuckerSnagger]
fish4brains Offline
Dah Rivah Stinkah Pink Mastah

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 6214
Loc: zipper
Originally Posted By: SuckerSnagger
I don't know if the poor are getting poorer or not, but the middle class sure as hell is getting poorer!


prophet
_________________________
...
Propping up an obsolete fishing industry at the expense of sound fisheries management is irresponsible. -Sg



Top

Search

Site Links
Home
Our Washington Fishing
Our Alaska Fishing
Reports
Rates
Contact Us
About Us
Recipes
Photos / Videos
Visit us on Facebook
Today's Birthdays
fishinalot, shaunpmr
Recent Gallery Pix
hatchery steelhead
Hatchery Releases into the Pacific and Harvest
Who's Online
0 registered (), 711 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
NoyesMaker, John Boob, Lawrence, I'm Still RichG, feyt
11499 Registered Users
Top Posters
Todd 27838
Dan S. 16958
Sol Duc 15727
The Moderator 13944
Salmo g. 13530
eyeFISH 12618
STRIKE ZONE 11969
Dogfish 10878
ParaLeaks 10363
Jerry Garcia 9013
Forum Stats
11499 Members
17 Forums
72944 Topics
825316 Posts

Max Online: 3937 @ 07/19/24 03:28 AM

Join the PP forums.

It's quick, easy, and always free!

Working for the fish and our future fishing opportunities:

The Wild Steelhead Coalition

The Photo & Video Gallery. Nearly 1200 images from our fishing trips! Tips, techniques, live weight calculator & more in the Fishing Resource Center. The time is now to get prime dates for 2018 Olympic Peninsula Winter Steelhead , don't miss out!.

| HOME | ALASKA FISHING | WASHINGTON FISHING | RIVER REPORTS | FORUMS | FISHING RESOURCE CENTER | CHARTER RATES | CONTACT US | WHAT ABOUT BOB? | PHOTO & VIDEO GALLERY | LEARN ABOUT THE FISH | RECIPES | SITE HELP & FAQ |