Is it just me or did snaging salmon reach an all time high last year? It seemed to me that more people than not were not even trying to catch them in 2002. Especially in the smaller rivers and creeks. It seems like there are two many people out there that dont even care to put in there time to learn to fish. Its tough to get the fish to bite when people are ripping water with trebles or 5/0 jigs.



Should the state open some hatchery fisheries to snagging to draw snaggers away from wild runs?

Worse and worse ever year because people who don't know how to fish go to GI Joes to ask about good fishing and get sent to snagging holes with corkies and a new generation of snaggers is born out of ignorance AND with the complicity of WDFW!!!!!

What even makes this worse, is when you see kids and better yet parents with kids fishing with heavy lb test, big hooks, and constantly jerking the rod to snag fish.

Thats why I like winter,spring and early summer fisheries,lots of water,unplesant weather.Seems to me we do'nt see these toads till the weather warms and the water drops.I do'nt think that any thing will change till there is a gamie posted at every snagging hole ,writing tickets and we know that will never happen

you are right snagging in the fall gets worse every year.it makes it hard to fish properly in some of the best holes.i would really like to see the set ups snaggers use get illegalized.it would make it easier for the gamies to determine who is doing what. FISH ON!!!!!!!!!!!

What is "salmon snagging"?


Seriously, anytime fish gang up around here your likely to see it. Doesn't happen only in the Fall; thats just about the only time we've had the luxury of large schools of ganged up fish in recent years. Springers in Columbia tribs the last few years are an obvious exception.

Its not even really a "fishing" issue; its a societal/cultural problem. People fish the same way they drive/work/live. Rudeness and greed do not stop at the riverbank. The attitude seems to be "I'm gonna get mine no matter what!" This ain't nothin' new been going on for years. How did the buffalo almost become extinct inside 20 years?

That being said, we really do need to look at how to manage fisheries where large numbers of "surplus" hatchery fish are present.

Put yourself in the shoes of an angler who is not as "expert" as yourself (noted by the fact that he doesn't even have a G. Loomis- or maybe just an older model). He only goes a few times a year, normally when everyone in town says the fish are "in".The guy goes to the river, sees a ton of guys there, and they are hooking some fish. He takes his place at the end of the line. Since the early bite is off, and the fish are entirely spooked from the horde of anglers his chance of hooking one in the mouth may not be all that great. Using legal gear he lands a fish after 3 hours. Its a bright fish, and he's happy. Should he release it because it was not hooked in the mouth?

Downstream the tribe is netting/gutting/chucking. Hatchery is full; any more will become fertilizer. Maybe that fish is better off on someone's table?

At the risk of what's left of my reputation, I'll say the guy who hooks and "plays with" 50 fish in a day -some hooked in the mouth- some not- may be doing the fish and the guys he keeps from sharing the fishing hole much more of a disservice than the guy who keeps the first two he catches and takes them home to eat!

Well said gsiegel. Many of the people on this board have been salmon fishing for many years and underestimate how daunting it is for inexperienced fishermen to understand the basics(gear, salmon identification, regulations, etc.). I'm all for nailing people that are consciously ruining our resources, but....

I totally agree with your points. Who does more harm to our resources, the numbskull that snags two boot chum salmon in a terminal run and takes them home with a big smile on their face or the expert that catches and releases 30 native steelhead in a single day?

So where can I go to catch 30 steelhead in one day?

Snagging is not fishing!!

If someone just wants fish to eat they can go to the store and buy it. If they want to go fishing they should understand that fishing doesn't always mean catching.

I can't understand where people find the fun in dragging a fish in by its butt. Take a big stick throw it in the current and you'll get about the same fight.

As for the argument that the fish are just going to go to waste is a load of crap. If you're concerned about that why don't we just have the WDFW net them and hand them out. You could just drive up and grab em. Or maybe they could put them in a big holding tank, you could drive up, a person would dip net one, hook it to the end of your line and throw it in the river for you to play. That should help the poor folks who can't catch a fish on their own.

WDFW could even charge for this service, think what they could do with all the extra money.

Oh boy, what a hot topic this could be!

I participated in the fall "take" of salmon. I won't call it fishing, because anytime I have to bring a rock to have something to stand on and then cast into a stream so crowded with fisherman (and fish) that you can hear the lines tangling, I just can't call it fishing.

I know why WDFW pretends that there are fish biting, when everyone else knows that the only thing going on is the attempt to foul hook a fish in the "potential bite" zone of somewhere West of the gill plates.....it's called money. The tickets written generate the sorely needed funding to continue on continuing on.

I personally killed quite a number of released bright, beautiful hooknose by the ridiculous hook-and-release requirement. Disgustingly wasteful, I know. The fish that died were left to the seagulls and whatever other critters living in and around the river happened along.

Since the river is only two miles long, with a fish barricade at one end and closed waters at the mouth, the fish were doomed. The hatchery at one end was plugged with fish and the excess were to be clubbed and dumped un-spawned back into the river. So, thousands (yes, thousands) of fish were slaughtered. And the wardens wrote their tickets. It's all about money, nothing else.

because the indians already have a monopoly on that "service"

build casinos maybe???

Amen Boss man..
No exuse of justification for snagging at all no matter what!
no matter how hard it is no matter how many fishless seasons you go through no matter how novice you are nor how desperate for that wiggle on the end of the line, anagging is wrong period! Even if they are overabundant hatchery fish that are "just going to die". I don't care how many fish the natives net and waste snagging is wrong period !!!!
Snagging not only shows a disrespect for the law but a disrespect for the fish itself. and it shows the true charecter of the one snagging. All snaggers are complete lowlifes. Thoes with morals will not snag because snagging is wrong. When something is wrong, it is always wrong no matter what the circumstances.

Now this is getting fun!

Bossman (?):
I like the way you used the pronoun "you" in referring to someone who might need to snag a fish...that's never been MY problem...

I'm not sure most people see this as such a black/white, right/wrong issue. I don't relly condone snagging. But I also think that this problem, if indeed it really is a problem, is a symptom of how perversely backward our salmon management has become. We have scads of hatchery fish returning to some areas, wild runs going extinct, tribes taking eggs and dumping carcasses, we can't fish them for long in the salt water, and there they are stacking up like cord-wood at the hatchery. Then some poor guy comes along and gets a fat ticket for keeping a fish that was hooked in the pectoral fin instead of on the gill plate?
From a purely logical point of view this makes little sense.

Maybe the good old WDFW needs to pull back on dumping so many plants in some of these areas (RE: Hood Canal chum). All they are really accomplishing is supporting the tribal and commercial take anyway.

BM:
I've heard every ethical consideration in the book, but I would like to see you post your reasons on exactly WHY you feel all snagging is right up there with capital murder. Fish are greatly abused by any means of harvest. Why is hooking them in the head a finer way? I'm sure you know as well as most that MANY if not MOST salmon in some stream situations are "lined" or the hook drifts into the fish's gaping maw. Just curious.

Good Fishin'!

GS

gsiegel,

out of everyone that has responded, you me you make the most sense!!!

respecting the fish??? if you want to respect the fish you should all put your poles away, as i doubt those that are hooked in the mouth think they received more respect than those hooked in the ass.

let me say i do not agree with a spark plug, and a treble hook, but THIS FOUL HOOK CRAP can be taken to far i believe. these fish are dying, and i as a sportsman that helped pay for that resource, and would like to see it utilized, for more than feeding the next GENERATION OF FISH. I have watched the tribes strip eggs from fish, and thow the rest, and you guys worry about FOUL HOOK, GIVE ME A BREAK!!! I know this will be unpopular with the purists, but thats how i feel. someone said above "if they want fish like that go to the store." so now you are encouraging people to buy the more respected netted fish, or tribal fish? oh ya, these fish were more respectfully caught, right??? please, if you want to talk legal, or not legal, so be it, but cut the crap about respecting the fish!


chumster

gsiegel, sorry, if you felt my use of you meant you. I was using you in a generic sense.

Snagging is not capital murder, but its not fishing either.

Salmon do bite, however if you got 20 guys ripping gear through a hole it just ruins it for everybody. If all these non-fisherman had to catch fish for real most would get discouraged and give up.


More fish and a better overall experience for the rest fo us.

PS: I never said anything about disrespectng the fish. I'm sure the fish doesn't care how it gets drug in. But I'm sure its happier when it gets to swim away .

Poor Orse!

FJ...out.

Some very good points made hear!

One of my main concerns is when someone snags a fish,

1. Fights it to total exhaustion because their harder to bring in backwards.
2. Acids build up faster in the muscle tissue then the fishes metablism can deal with.
3. Dragging a fish backwards also can damage gill filaments.
4. There harder to un-hook I normally see people dragging them upon the rocks and waiting till the stop thrashing around so they can pull the hook out of the tail.
5. They get kicked back into the water half the time, un-revived



{3}(as most catch and release fishermen should know dont swish em back and forth to revive them!)

For these reasons part of me says they should be able to take there two fish and get the hell out! Otherwise there killing alot of would be spawners!

The other part of me thinks if the wdfw legalized snagging all the sporting goods stores would be out of treble hooks!
And snagging is just plain wrong! what pride can you take in holding two nice fish that you snagged and tell people you caught them? You would have to be a pretty shallow person to do that.

Its a tough one to be sure!

Funny how snagging and other abuses like littering go hand in hand at the usual crowded spots. I noticed on another post about the Blue Creek clean up that what looked like a huge crowd of concerned fishermen cleaning up garbage was really a huge group of shoulder to shoulder fishermen and a small group of cleaners. Intentional snagging is really poaching. Maybe these overcrowded spots should just be closed to all fishing. The fact that there are tons of fish at terminal areas stacking up is another problem. In Alaska snagging is a way of life where fish are really plentiful. Catching a Sockeye on the Kenai River is almost impossible without snagging or flossing. Up there if you are a native you can dip net fish to take home. Snagging is still illegal but tolerated I guess. What we have on this board are people who would like a nice river all to themselves and snaggers are "ruining it for everyone"...

Close those over crowded spots to all fishing.Then everybody will just move to the next best spot.Didnt eliminate 5the problem,just moved it.

FJ