Sorry to burst you bubble but I am right. I just called wdfw to be double sure. steelhead and cutthroat have been scientifically reclassed as salmon!
and yes not all steelhead run to sea but niether do all silvers or kings.

Hey Dan,

Perhaps Micropterus101 could use a night at the local Holiday Inn Express...

Micro -

"that way there can be no organization that can stop the commercial fishing industry."

Fish farms.

You must not fish with barbless hooks very often or you would know that Rockfish is quite correct in how easy they are to remove....

...as I see it this thread is about whether or not drastic measures should be taken to close a fishery that is potentially in trouble not about flyfishers v. every other kind of fisherperson.

If the closures/restrictions posed were enacted it could potentially infringe upon your 'right to fish'... is that what has you unable to focus on the specifics of this thread?

I doubt you'll find many on this board or anywhere else for that matter that would agree with your statement that a steelhead is a salmon....supposing you are wrong on that, would you be willing to reconsider some of the other positions you have taken in this thread and others based on information you were equally sure was correct?

Smalma

As always, your post was very informative, and I did learn something from it.
Thanks for the straight forward answers, without doing the old "attack and conquer" thing that so many of us tend to do on this board.

JoJo:

You just can't let things go can you; i.e. saying "Shouldn't we error on the side of the fish, or are we just worried about our so called "right" to fish." Who on this thread said anything at all about your so-called "right" to fish? Or where you just trying to being a little catty with your words? We seems like we just keep turning against ourselves whenever we get the chance to do it. Why?

Can't some of you fishermen realize that there are lots of "other fishermen" out there that really could care less one way or the other about "wild fish" or hatchery fish? How do you think that the general public really feels about "wild fish" or hatchery fish? The greatest majority of them never even go fishing so what does that tell you? So, we are the minority, and we must deal with these issues and problems within our own selves.

If we can't openly debate our own personal viewpoints or opinions on this board about how to deal with our own fishing problems, how on earth are we ever going to sell it to the public? After all, it will be the public that filps the bill, becuase the money for our sport all comes from the general states fund, not from the sell of our licenses. It's a mean world out there, and if we can't take the heat of the debates here, then maybe some of us better take-up some other type of sport!

By the way, I think that fishermen should really make the clarification that they are talking about "native genetic wild fish" here and not just any other genetically crossed or mixed offspring's, who have came from some combinations of hatchery-crossed or mixed fish. "Wild fish" is different then "native wild fish" You need to look no further then the Cowlitz to see that. I have been told by the agencies that "Wild" is defined to be a fish that was hatched in the wild from "any returning adult", and that "native" meant that the fish was genetically from the watershed, and was raised in its original river of origin. Is that not correct?

It's also my opinion, that such a proposed "one law (rule) fits all" state rule will never work in the management of our states fisheries. Too many different problems and to many different issues that affect each river system to allow such a statewide rule to work at this time.

I am sure that there are "river systems" out there that can enjoy a real "comeback" of "wild native fish", but there are also lots of rivers out there, besides the "Cowlitz", that it's just not going to happen to! Are bait bans, and barb less hooks restrictions going to get the results that you guys are hoping for…I just don't know!

P.S. Sparky, your treads are getting just as controversial as mine have been lately…that could be dangeruous!


Cowlitzfisherman

Steelhead salmon, huh? Or is it rainbow salmon?

I guess you can add Golden salmon, cutthroat salmon, Gila salmon, and Apache salmon to your list of "unofficial salmon" if you want.

They aren't salmon. Like I said, you're using layman's terms. And I see that somebody at WDFW is going right along with you.

And as soon as they were reclassefied they actually changed into another fish. How's that for evolution.

Maybe he is confusing 'salmon' with 'salmonid'?

Don't forget the red-band salmon...

Ya know, I too recall that steelhead being reclassified, something about being more closely related to salmon than to trout.

Seems like most steelheaders are floatin down a river (in Egypt!) when it comes to this re-classification.

Sincerely,
Roger

Micro is right that Steelhead are Oncorhynchus mykiss but which is the same clasification as Rainbow trout.

Here are a couple of links that will show you that the Rainbow trout is and O. Mykiss
http://policy.nrcs.usda.gov/scripts/lpsiis.dll/TN/TN_b_10.htm
http://www.niwa.cri.nz/rc/freshwater/fishatlas/species/rainbow_trout.htm
http://www.intl-pag.com/10/abstracts/PAGX_P624.html


So the WDFW people did tell you right they were taken from Salmo to Oncorhynchus but the question you need to ask is what is a rainbow trout classified as?

If I miss spoke someone more verse in Biology please correct me.

JJ

I too have to go with Micro on this one Dan! That change took place almost a year ago or better. I could be eating crow, but I believe Micro is right…but again , I have eaten that pie before!


Cowlitzfisherman

when I called I asked specifically if steelhead were scientifically classified as salmon he said yes but some people still refer to them as trout though for all intensive purposes they are salmon.

But the research on smolt mortality rates did not go out the window with the reclassification.

I still have not been able to find any studies on hooking mortality of steelhead fry or smolts.

correct that the smolt mortality rate didn't go out the window with the reclassification.

Micro,
Do you now belive that Rainbows and Steelhead are both classified as O. Mykiss (actually they are the same just one stays in freshwater and one goes to the ocean)and therefore the hooking mortality on Rainbows is relivent?

JJ

It's crow pie for you, cowfish.

Taxonomy is done using the following classifications:

Kingdom
Phylum
Class
Order
Family
Genus
Species

Sure, "salmon" and steelhead are classified in the same Genus. So what? They are NOT the same species. And it DOES make a huge difference.

Using the method you guys are, you could also claim a Dachshund is a wolf........they both belong to the Genus Canis. And you'd be MORE right than claiming a steelhead is a salmon since domestic dogs have recently been reclassified as Canis Lupus Familiaris, a sub-species of Canis Lupus (wolves), rather than a separate species (Canis Familiaris).

Clearly a weiner dog isn't a wolf, but it's close. But close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

If you want to tell me a wolf is a weiner dog is a wolf..........then at least you'll be showing some understanding of the taxonomic classification process.

Weiner wolf.

I believe that the main reason for the reclassification was because of the similarity in life history to the pacific "salmon" species more so than mitochondrial DNA similarities. As Dan pointed out, just because an animal shares the same genus DOES NOT mean that they are the same species. (great example by the way Dan)

As h2o pointed out, this thread has DEFINITELY sidetracked from Sparkey's original post. When all is said and done, does it REALLY matter if a steelhead is a salmon or not. The bottom line is, we as sportfishers only have direct control over certain aspects of what may be causing the decline in fish numbers. Obviously nets, pollution, habitat loss, dams etc... contribute more to the decline that barbed hooks or bait. But let me ask you this, don't we owe it to ourselves and to the fish to do whatever we can to ensure that we'll have steelhead around in the short term, and for future generations to enjoy as much as we have?

RAINBOW TROUT AND STEELHEAD ARE NOT THE SAME! THAT IS NOW A SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN FACT. They are not both Oncorhnchus Mykiss. Rainbow trout are Salmo Gairdneri all trout start with Salmo except for Chars they start with Salvelinus, all salmon start with Oncorhychus.

Rainbow trout and steelhead are close but not the same.

close only counts in horshoes and grenades. I couldnt have said it better myself.

Dan, like I said before, I eaten that kind of pie before! Never have you seen me claim that I know what the "technical" names are for fish (wasn't that the point of this sub debate anyway?)!

But, I do claim that I know how to catch those little devils!

I will yield for time now, but it's going to take biologists; people like smlama and Salmo to serve me that pie!

I think that maybe the pie is on the table, but I haven quite yet put my fork into it yet! Maybe the oven isn't quit hot enough either?

Lucky for me I didn't use that "common sense" word again…you think!

This is kind of like saying a "spade is a spade" …but this spade has come from another deck because the back side is a different color!


Cowlitzfisherman