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#182796 - 01/22/03 01:50 AM Smalma, Salmo G....can I pick your brains?
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
I was wondering if you guys, or anyone else, could give me some info on the return rates of our hatchery fish. Are we talking 2%...less/more?

I was curious about steelhead specifically, but if you have info on salmon, too, that would be great.

Thanks in advance.........
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#182797 - 01/22/03 01:55 AM Re: Smalma, Salmo G....can I pick your brains?
h2o Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 2449
Loc: Portland
I'll betcha' "2%...less/more" about sums it up....
_________________________
"Christmas is an American holiday." - micropterus101

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#182798 - 01/22/03 02:08 AM Re: Smalma, Salmo G....can I pick your brains?
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Thanks, h2o. You're always a wealth of helpful information. banana

I need to fish with you some time.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#182799 - 01/22/03 06:57 PM Re: Smalma, Salmo G....can I pick your brains?
h2o Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 2449
Loc: Portland
"You don't want to fish with me because..."

Remember?

BTW...bump.
_________________________
"Christmas is an American holiday." - micropterus101

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#182800 - 01/22/03 07:21 PM Re: Smalma, Salmo G....can I pick your brains?
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Oh, yes, I remember. Actually, that list is WHY I need to fish with you sometime.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#182801 - 01/22/03 10:46 PM Re: Smalma, Salmo G....can I pick your brains?
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2834
Loc: Marysville
Dan S.
hatchery return rates vary considerably from area to area as well as year to year. For Chambers Creek winter steelhead the 2% smolt to adult survival would be a good average for Puget Sound streams from the late 1970s to early 1990s. The streams in the extreme south and north Sound had lower rerturns while the Snohomish's typical returns were about 3 to 4%. Returns in the recent years have been much lower - consistently below 1%.

Steelhead returns on the Quillayute would typcially be as much as 3 times higher than Puget Sound's.

Interestly the coho returns are just the opposite that of steelhead. That is the Puget Sound returns are typically twice that of those on the coast. On the Snohomish typcial smolt to adult coho survival would be in the 15% range and has occasionally reached more than 25%.

Tight lines
Smalma

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#182802 - 01/24/03 02:45 PM Re: Smalma, Salmo G....can I pick your brains?
h2o Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 2449
Loc: Portland
I've been sitting here trying to hypothesize what accounts for the difference in return rates Smalma noted...

More stable conditions in the Puget Sound for Coho? They would have to spend more time in the sound than their steelhead brethren to fit the model...does anyone know if that kind of behavior is normal for coho?
_________________________
"Christmas is an American holiday." - micropterus101

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#182803 - 01/24/03 03:22 PM Re: Smalma, Salmo G....can I pick your brains?
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13587
Dan,

It looks like Smalma's got you covered. Hatchery steelhead survival rates are not impressive generally. 2 or 3% for smolts reared to a size of 6 per pound is a pretty poor investment. 8.3 pounds of hatchery smolts have to be reared and released to yield a return of one 6 to 8 pound adult. Where return rates are even lower, say the Columbia River system upstream of the dams, maybe we should just raise steelhead all the way to adult stage. It would cost less, but I'm not sure I would want to hook a 6 pound hatchery stocker.

More significantly is that wild steelhead smolts seem to average twice the survival of their hatchery brethren. The wild steelhead, although small in number, returned at three times the rate of hatchery fish on the Cowlitz a couple years ago.

Hatchery coho on the Columbia River, like those on the coast, also average half the survival rate of the Puget Sound coho. I don't know why that is.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

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