I have seen it stated here on several occasions that it is actually beneficial to bounce the downrigger ball off the bottom - that the sound attracts fish.

I was wondering about the validity of this contention when I saw Tom Nelson's presentation at the Sno-King PSA meeting. Tom said basically the same thing about the occasional bounce (BTW he also likes the cast iron "pear" shaped balls). This caused me to think some more.

I know (from Charlie White) that lots of fish will follow trolled bait without biting and I also know that a hooked, fighting fish will inspire others to bite - that's why double-headers are so common. So now I'm thinking that this makes some sense. Since the bottom is almost always mud, I don't how much sound a ball would make (maybe fish could hear it), but there would have to be a nice cloud of mud kicked up. Maybe this kind of action simulates a fellow chinook feeding on candlefish and triggers a bite reflex. Nobody wants to be left out of the feeding frenzy, right?

Anyway, I'm going to try ringing the bell and see what happens.

Slabquest, let us know how it goes! My experence is that when I ring the bell I catch bottom fish more times then not. Not to mention it messes up flashers( glo tape) ect. I would also think that D.R balls would end up missing? I keep a close eye on the bottom contour and adjust as needed. (love electrics) We have been fairing pretty well the last few weekends. Love to hear back from you on this. Are you heading out this weekend?

Slab And Fish:

Bottom bouncing will definitly porduce fish!! A good way to do it without messing your gear up and you will always know where your gear is in relationship to the bottom. Get yourself a stacker and just put you gear about 5' above your ball. That way you will always know that you are 5' off the bottom. Also, If you do plan on bottom bouncing have a good set of wire cutters handy just in case you get hooked up you can cut the line quickly. Rather loose a ball and some wire insted of the whole DR....

Pmartin, is it the action/noise you are looking for from bouncing the bottom or just keeping your gear withing 5-8 feet of it? I run the bottom within that ranger without messing up /loosing my gear.

I mainly do it just to know that I am 5' from the bottom. I don't have to worry on DR's cable angles or where I am in relationship to the bottom.

I would suppose that the noise would also spark the interest. When fishing that deep there really isn't any light so I would think that fish down there realy a lot on hearing/feeling vibtrions and scent. The noise probably sparks their curiosity, your flashers also produce noise/vibrations while cutting through the water that attract fish.

Ok, here's a related question, one that I've been thinking about with all the bottom bouncing (snagging) and black box talk. Has anyone ever replaced their steel wire with a very heavy dacron or mono line (+100 lb test). The purpose would be to eliminate the electrical charge and make it easier to cut the line (with a knife instead of bolt cutter) in case one hangs on the bottom. On the rare occassion when one snaps the dacron or mono line, I would think that is better and safer than hooking bottom with a stainless steel cable between the unforgiving bottom and the four bolts holding your downrigger to the gunnel. I would also think a mono line would be less likely to spook fish than a stainless steel cable cutting through the water - especially since you are presenting the cable to any fish before the flasher or lure.

I agree and that is my thought is that the flasher is creating the noise/vibration. I also figure that they are with in the bottom 0-15 feet while feeding and that the flasher will do the attracting along with the scent from bait/hardware (scented) Even if you are within lets say 6-8 feet I would guess that they are going to find your gear within that range and track it down( active feeders).The thing I wonder is it the different noise/vibration from a 12lb ball hitting (mostly mud) bottom that is creating a noise that attracts them from a further distance?

I was checking out Power Pro's website,looking at line. I can't remember what lb test it was,but they reccomended it for DR cable.

Be sure to have replacement gear Murph. Know your bottom and expect to lose gear. Snagging a downrigger ball on bottom structure sounds like a tackle dealers dream sale.

BTW, skunked again on the sturgeon today. Even had fresh smelt dipped last night.

C Drifter

No reason I can think of why you can't use a heavy duty dacron instead of wire, but watch the wear and replace more often. Mono has way too much stretch. IMHO forget the concerns over line visibility. Commercials are using "rope" and on a good day will outfish you and me together. Alot of hootchie leaders go 40-50#.
As far as banging the ball, it's nothing new. Before downriggers it was a common pratice up on Green Point and even the straits where the guys used to bang heavy metal on spreaders for barndoors and chickens. In the winter they caught BM like that too when candlefish were in. Banging heavy jigs on the bottom will do the same thing. Plus the candlefish like the sandyer bottoms where it is safer to drag a ball. Not a great technique for the San Juans, Narrows or other rocky spots though. Downriggers and finders have recently brought this technique to a state of art. Bang a ball and you never know, you might just tag one of those barndoors one day. Then you'll need that 40-50# leader and wish you had that 200# dacron on your reel instead of your dr.

Well folks, let me shed a little light on this deep, dark subject.

In my opinion when you hit the typical silty sand bottom where blackmouth are feeding with your booger ball you are basically stirring up a cloud of silt. Fish can see and hear ok, but what they really can do is smell - so well that if you stick your hand breifly in a fish ladder, all the fish will instantly stop running up it for 5 minutes. Anyway, this cloud of silt attracts fish by scent, and simulates what a blackmouth does when he grubs in the sand for sandlance or shrimp. Blackmouth that have been doing this are all scarred up around the mouth from getting scraped by the occasional shell when grubbing in the sand. So hit the bottom a few times, stink up the area, and look out!

Glowmate paint? Glows fer twelve hours?!! WOW! Where can you get this stuff? A friend of mine once showed me a vial of some stuff that was supposed to glow fer that long (or longer). He said that it came from overseas cuz it couldn't be sold in the US due to some kinda health concerns. I think he was just blowin smoke but who knows? Anyway, if that stuff works as well as you say I need to get some.

SQ,

"Ringing the Dinner Bell" is used as a figure of speech. You were absolutely correct- make a little noise, kick up a little mud and trick Mr. Blackmouth into thinking your offering is a meal (although I doubt a Salmon can see the cloud at 150+ feet of water unless he is right on top of it) The ball does make a slight low frequency noise which will attract salmon from a distance...(flasher also) Then you want him to see the flasher and bait (glow colors) and then smell the offering. The best time to "ring" is when no bait or little bait is around. Another time would be as soon as a bottom dwelling Herring ball appears on the fish finder.

Candlefish on the fish finder will be spread out and within 5 feet of the bottom. They travel in loose knit schools parallel to the sea bed. If you zoom in, they almost appear as wavy weeds (best I can describe) along the bottom. With spoons, "Ringing" works well, because the gear stops and the spoon falls nearly consistent with a candlefish. When danger is present, a Candlefish dives at 60 - 75 degrees and digs into the sand/mud to escape. You'll know when salmon are feeding on Candlefish because their gills plates will be scratched from rooting the bottom.

You will notice that you "ring" more than you think. For example, if you are constantly
"feeling" for bottom like I do- that counts as a "ring." No need to drop the boat into neutral unless you are on a steady depth contour.

I like running a 48" release 2 feet above the ball. I add another 2 - 3 feet for the release after tightening the mainline. Then I keep the ball at 1' (or so) off the bottom. Adding this together puts me 5 - 8 feet. The main reason I always feel for the bottom is there are currents under water which can lift or pull the gear out of bottom 10 feet. (The sweet spot)

Weights... A round lead ball will softens and tend to stick to an object when it hits. The pancake type tends act as an anchor when flat. The tear drop has more surface area- less to hang on, hard and hollow- tends to bounce. As far as noise, all ball shapes make noise- just a low frequency in the sand and mud. Rocky areas... ring-a-ling-ling come and get it!

Just my Hawaiian .02

Downriggin'

Edited part....

Talk about slow connectivity.... 3 answers before mine popped on... Can't complain to much, at least I have internet

Dang it Spawn... you gave away the Glowmate secret... Shame on you!

Fair is fair, DR, I first heard about www.glowmate.com on this board from a fellow in Michigan. Shoulda' kept my my mouth shut until after the Disco derby, though

I am not one to give away secrets (yeah right), but there is a remote chance I maybe be fishing that derby.... at least the last two days. Have my fingers crossed. Heard anything on the Beach Tavern Derby?

I remember that GM post...

Downriggin'

"Ringing the dinner bell" is how you fish for halibut, should work for the other (blackmouth) bottom dwellers.

That would be way cool if you could pull that off DR, I'll probably stay the weekend in my camper at the Disco Bay Resort - going to check it out when I'm up there Monday. Haven't found out anything about the other derby - should give the Tides a call and check that out too - thanks for the reminder

Kool!! Thanx, spawnout, fer the link. Can't wait to try it out (won't be fer several months or more likely a year or two). Guess I'll get some n try it out pier fishin down here...won't be quite the same tho...

Sincerely,
Roger

A few things:

FS75: No, not going out this weekend. Tried Manchester last Saturday afternoon w/ just shakers, so moored at Brownsville the rest of the 3 day weekend and fished for crab on friends boat. Good crabbing.

CD: I posted awile back bout my friend that runs 120# kevlar line for drigger cable. He sez it's great - no jellyfish corrosion and no krik-krik when raising ball. I'm planning on switching.

DR: I thought salmon could see OK at 100 - 150'?

PP: Please keep me posted on the sturgeon situation - I'm afraid that we are developing a sturgeon addiction. That's some fine eating fish.

SQ,

Once the light absorbed by water starts to dissipate, so will the salmon's vision (about 30-40 feet). The deeper the salmon goes the less vision he has. He then has to rely on his sense of hearing - which isn't really hearing but sensing (or feeling) - through the lateral lines along his body - capula. He knows, through instinct, his surroundings at all times. The tiny vibrations of herring swimming are picked up by the latteral line- he can home in right to them.

IMO (or guess), I doubt a salmon can see more than a foot (maybe two) in depths greater than 100'. They rely to heavily on sound to home in on prey or something of curosity. This is why it is so important to make a lot of noise.. (flashers, weight, even gang trolls (shhhh). The closer they get to the target, you'll want them to see it. This is why I use all glow colors. Then smell.... (This will definately remain a secret unless we fish together- then it ain't a secret anymore)

By all means, I am not saying just stick to glow lures. Color combos like the Cop Car (or purples, blues and greens) produce because of their silhoutte. If I was a betting man (and I am), glow colors will out fish lure that don't glow 10 to 1.

Downriggin'