I didn't know this so it came as a big surprise. The state Kills all hatchery steelhead after sponing them instead of returning them to the river to let them cycle again. It's the law. They don't want them going back out to the ocean, getting diseased, then returning to the river again. Don't make sense to me. Why would they be worried about desease the 2nd time around that they wouldn't be worried about the first time? No wonder I don't see alot of big hatchery fish. This is hapening at Stevens Crk. Being it's the law it must be happening everywhere.

What are your thoughts?

I dont know much about the damages of a diseased steelhead on the habitat and reproduction of the species but id like to see them release them to come back again.

I've heard that fish spawning more than once aren't as big as you'd think because the rigors of spawning the first time slows their growth.

Maguana,

I've never heard that it's the law. I've always understood it as simply standard operating procedure. It's a lot easier to kill spawn than live spawn the steelhead.

I've not heard anything about a disease issue in that regard, either, although there may be a more recent policy. Some native broodstock programs live spawn their fish and release the kelts back to the river. It's hard to understand how a disease issue figures in.

It is also true that respawners are seldom much larger than they were on their previous return because they simply regain the weight that they lost during the earlier migration. The exception is when a fish stays out in the ocean for two years before returning again. Then they will have time to both replace lost weight and gain some new growth as well.

Another thought is the survival rate. Kelts could likely survive at about 10% or so. Compare that to the 2% or so for hatchery smolts. Hmmm, could this be a rocket science equation in the works? I pointed out in a previous thread that it takes about 8 pounds of smolts to produce one returning adult steelhead. Maybe WDFW should raise smolts all the way through to adult, spawn them and release kelts as a way to obtain a decent return on the investment.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

That sounds like it would make sense, but I doubt the state would put the time and money into doing that. I would like to see that happen though

Fishmaster,

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that Salmo was being facetious. If the state did this, when would the fish be available to catch?

the reason the hatcheries kill spawn is they have to check for internal hemoraging desease this can only be checked by killing the fish , if they are used for spawning and not checked the desease could spread to all the offspring from that years spawning efforts , as far as any excess fish that were not used for spawning they are released, almost always it is the bucks, one good healthy buck can fertilize quite a few hens , so the hatchery needs are abuot 6hens to 1 buck. by the way the steelhead that are not caught or used at hatcheries will spawn naturally , go back out and depending on available food ,gain weight and return about 1-2 yrs later , assuming they get lucky and don't get waylaid along the way

Jerbear,

Why do they have to check for internal hemmorhaging disease and how would it spread to all the offspring? My understanding is that standard practices include spawning each female into a separate bucket and incubating in individual or small lots, and then only after disinfection. Given those two safeguards, would you describe how all the eggs/offspring are at risk?

Also, I've found male steelhead to be very stingy with their sperm compared to salmon. Using 1 buck with 6 hens is a practice I thought was discontinued many years ago now. Maybe hatchery bucks are more generous and shot their entire wad at once, which would make fertilizing more females easier, but not wiser.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

I can't speak for all hatcheries on all rivers but, tokal creek hatchery will truck spawners around to boat launches in the Snoqualmie system. And the Reiter hatchery does the same with the summer runs. The Cowlits hatchery will punch a hole in the gill and return the fish to the river.

So all hatcheries don't kill their fish though some might.

Salmo -

Is 'shot their wad all at once' a technical term? You have such a way with words....

Stlhdh20,

What do you mean? Of course it's a technical term. I only hope to write to be understood. If you understood, then I was successful in communicating.

t.i.c.

Salmo g.

Sorry Salmo...I forgot rule number one of comedy:

1. Try to have what you say or write actually be funny.

Yes, Salmo is a human being!

He too writes so that we ALL can understand what he is saying! This is not a lab that we are in.

Salmo, that's why I respect your opinion so much; you are one of us, and when you "chose to talk like us", you can do that very well too (but your still a turkey!) and one hell of a person!


Cowlitzfisherman

I was told that the reason they kill the hens was that if they "milked" the eggs out of them that they only get about 60% of them . If they kill them they get 100%. At Tokul and Reiter they only truck fish down stream when they have all of the fish they need.

It was a great way of putting it...thanks again for all the info Salmo g.!!

hey salmo g ,the info I posted was given to me by the people that work at tokul cr. , wallace cr. and skykomish hatcheries. I have been at two of these facilities during the spawning procedures and had the same questions , you would have to talk to Larry, Duane, or Debbie these people that work at the hatcheries have a world of good solid information to pass on to anybody that asks , I have found them to be friendly,and give you first hand info on just about anything going on . I will talk to one of them this week and see if I can get them to post better answers to these subjects since my scientific knowledge of this is limited.

IHN is a virus and is not treatable, as like all viruses it is not affected by antibiotics, so the only way spread of this plague can be arrested is to kill and test all the adults spawned, isolate the eggs during incubation while disinfecting the effluent (chlorinate and de-chlorinate before discharge) and destroying any eggs that come from IHN positive adults. One of the drawbacks to mass-producing fish.