I know there are some people on this site that think getting the "Opportunity" to fish for these kings is a Major achievment for the sports fisherman, BUT you do realize that the tribes are entitled to 50% of these fish, and have been netting the lower Snohomish for the past couple of years that it has been open for sports catch, It just so happens that the SUMMER RUN STEELHEAD , AND the WILD NATIVE WINTER RUNS are in the river in LARGE NUMBERS , The sports catch for the last two years has been minimal at best, Do you really think we need a OPPORTUNITY to fish for these kings at the cost of our Wild fish and our Summer Run Steelhead? the wild fish need our protection and the summer run numbers are dropping due to this fishery. Just What have you accomplished???

I heard a rumor that the Tulalips are lobying to fish in the Sky up to Lewis Street for these summer kings.

FatPat, Where did you hear about indians netting the Snohomish? The Snoqualmie fish are protected under the ESA crap, so how does that float that they net the Snohomish???Why not go to the source and take the fish out of the trap on the Wallace so there is "0" impact on anything?

I find that very hard to believe...

Bankwalker, my information comes from the game wardens, and wallace creek hatchery personel, these are a unique strain of kings,they are not Springers ,or Fall kings. By the time they reach the Wallace they are pretty much dark ,not the chrome bright fish that you find in the snohomish just out of the salt, the market value of these fish is high and the tribes would never agree to collect dark kings over high dollar bright kings. I tried to get records from wdfw and have never recieved any responce at all. Pat

Thats interesting FP, coming from the warden and hatchery personel. There must be some info out there on how many the tribe has taken and when and where they net??

About the fish being dark... I have found that the hatchery summer kings waiste no time in the lower river and typically shoot up in mid june when snow runoff is in full force. I have seen hundreds of "chrome" kings in the trap. BUT in July, thats a different story.

Interesting topic, maybe somebody else has some info on the Sno netting???

Can you tell me where this occurs? I've never witnessed netting on the Sno, but I don't fish from a boat down low.

FP and where do the Tulalips net the Snohomish?And when did the Tulalips start a in river fishery?Its news to me,you may want to check your source,or question the creditability of your source

Fatpat, the Wallace Hatchery is putting out marked Summer Chinook. These fish are returning in numbers large enough to have a fishery on them, ala opportunity. The recs have fought hard to get a selective fishery (marked retention only). During this season the recs can usually harvest marked summer run steelhead. Why make out to be a bad thing?

Other concerned fishers in the past have pointed out that during this fishery there is the chance that some late wild winter steelhead might be hooked. These fish are protected by wild fish release although there might be some hooking mortality. I have not heard of many encounters with late wild winter steelhead by the recs in this fishery however if this were of concern I, along with most others, would be willing to go to a bait ban or whatever necessary to get off these fish.

If the tribes want their share of these summer chinook, as co-managers of the resource, it's up to them to harvest in a manner that is not detrimental to other stocks in a mix stock fishery. I'm not an expert on how often or where the Tualips fish but I have been led to believe that they are fairly responsible during their fall/winter fisheries with minimal impact on wild winter steelhead and take most of "their" fall chinook out of Tualip Bay by "their" hatchery.

For all the obvious reasons the recs have very little opportunity to fish for chinook in the Puget Sound region so trying to drum down this Skykomish summer chinook fishery by "playing the tribe card" I think is unreasonable. I'd like to see just how many wild winter steelhead or unmarked summer steelhead the tribes are killing during June.

First let me express that I am not talking about sport fishing impact on the winter run native steelhead. what I am saying is that nets in this river at this time frame Do have a impact on both native fish both species ,Native summer run kings and Native summer run/winter steelhead natives ,and on the hatchery steelhead . there was no gillnet fishery on this system untill this summer run king program was started, I have never seen a gillnet fishery on any river for summer run steelhead(NOT FALL RUNS) . The tribes take there summer steelhead allotment from the winter run fishery. As far as my source of information, What better source could you obtain it from than from the same people that raise the fish from start to finish ,and the people that patrol this river system, Why would they all lie ? I have fished the Snohomish system for over 25 years and have known a lot of these people for a long time and have been given nothing but reliable information over the years, I have seen the returns for the summer run steelhead dwindle in both run size and size of the fish , there used to be a lot of 2-3 salt fish ,but for the last few years there has been the RARE fish over 10 lbs. , Also a large amount of fish with gillnet marks in June and July! What does that tell you?

By the way I have tried to obtain catch records for both Sport and tribal, and can not get any responce . I would like to know. As far as the amount of downriver natives I can tell you there is a substancial amount of natives in the system in June , I have personally caught quite a few in the beginning of the season along with a lot of other guys I run into or fish with. I just feel that this Summer Run King program should have not been created but left to the Native Kings as they were naturally.

While I work in construction so my summer fishing is almost non existant, everything I read and all the reports I get from my fishin pals all say summer run fishin on the Snohomish system has been fantastic the last couple of years??????????????

Fatpat-
Don't know where the rumor comes from that the Tulalips are fishing in the river but have seen no evidence of that occurring. They do fish in 8-D (the Tulalip bubble) during that summer period. The vast majority of their catch in June and July is chinook. Of those chinook caught typically 95% of them are from their own hatchery; this is based on sampling of their catch. All the production from their hatchery have been 100% otolith marked so it is straight forward to determine the source of the fish they catch. Note they get the eggs from the Wallace hatchery.

In all the pre-season planning for recent salmon seasons (North of Falcon) have not had any in-river commerical season for the Tulalip tribes planned or even mentioned. In this day of ESA management fisheries that do not account for potential impacts are not likely to pass the review of NMFS (now NOAA fish).

Also have seen no evidence of significant decline in the number of summer steelhead returning to the Snohomish basin. The punch card information that is available (through 1999) indicates that the summer catch has remained relatively constant. The average annually sprot catch in the 1980s was 3,800 fish a year and in the 1990s it was 3,300 fish. The number of wild summer steelhead being passed upstream at Sunset Falls or spawning in the South Fork Tolt have generally increased since the early 1990s.

The data doesn't seem to support your accusations. What has occurred is a change in the summer run fishery, especially in the Skykomish. With the advent of side-drifting and a larger number of boats on the water an increasing percentage of the returning summer fish are being caught in June and early July downstream of Sultan. Thus the up river and mid-summer fisheries have likely declined.

Your observation of declining size in the returning hatchery summer steelhead is correct. In the 1970s the fish were rigorously selected for 3-salt fish. Thus there was a significant % of the 3-salt fish in the return. With the developement of the local brood stock in the early 1980s that selection was stopped (concerns for genetist about selective impacts on the brood stock and its long term genetic health). Thus the age structure is reverting back towards a more normal condition (younger).

Again have seen little evidence of gill net marks on many of the Snohomish steelhead. Heard the same complain this winter. A check of 138 steelhead at the Tokul Creek hatchery found that 79% (109) fish had no scars while 29 had scars or fresh injuries. Of those 29 only 1 had a gill net scar/injury (fresh).

The State seems to be trying to provide a recreational fishing opportunity on the abundance Wallace hatchery chinook while attempting to minimize the impacts on the naturally produced Skykomish chinook (Imapcts last year was estimated to have been less than 1%). Enjoy or not this additonal opportunity as you please but I fail to see where it will have significant impacts on your "traditional" fishery.

Tight lines
Smalma