This should be good fer a laugh (click on "Fishing for sport is cruel, inhumane" for complete article)!

JEFF JACOBY THE BOSTON GLOBE
Fishing for sport is cruel, inhumane
I'm not a vegetarian. I eat poultry, fish, and fowl. I don't oppose experimenting on animals when necessary for medical research. I like zoos. I have no moral objection to wearing fur or leather. I think it's OK to keep pet dogs on a leash and birds in a cage. And I am no supporter of PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) or its fanatic agenda.

Looks like I am cruel and inhumane

Hmmm, is anyone here willing to admit that the author may have a point? I release a lot of fish, but I don't C&R for sport. I don't judge those who do, but it does give one pause for thought.

If I fool the neighbor's cat into biting a fly, fight it to exhaustion, then release it, I will likely go to jail. What is different about fish, other than the likelihood that their brains are more primitive?

Now, I gotta go catch and kill something :p

That makes me one mean SOB! I like sore lippin them fishies!!

This should be really good!

For those that think fishing doesn't have a big bullseye on it's back from these groups, must be smoking some "funky-ko-ma-deena"

A year or so ago I was sitting in an all day animal rights conference. The last speaker of the day and the one I really wanted to hear, Ingrid Newkirk the founder of PeTA..
She almost stated that entire article word for word about catch and release..

Fishing is no longer exempt from these fanatical attacks..

What can you do about it? join a group that wants to protect our heritages and get involved with them. Get smart on the issues we face. Don't rely on a Disney show portrayal for your decision.
Apathy is no excuse!

Here are a couple very good Washington State organizations..

http://www.usow.org/forum/ or http://www.w4wc.org/

Unfortunately I think the author makes some valid points...

I am a bad bad person.

Nope. I figure I'll see their point when I'm horrified by the carnage on the grill of my truck. Still waiting for now............

Dan -

Its not the dead bugs on your grill that would be at issue. It would be swerving your rig into the flight path of oncoming bugs, intending to merely wound them that would be at issue.

The only issue I really have with dude's argument is that he does not have a problem with fishing as a means to get food. All the supposed 'trauma' is inflicted upon those fish as well AND you kill them afterward...at least when you release a properly handled steelie you know there is a good chance that it will live. Not true when you apply the wood shampoo though is it?

If it could be demonstrated that fish posess emotional intelligence such as that displayed by higher mammalian forms (dogs, for example),I'd be taking his argument even more seriously. As it is, I think there is a big difference between fishing for Fido and fishing for Ike.

Let's just say it's a slippery slope that I choose not to stand on in the first place. Just like there are those that say sportfishing is cruel, there are also those that claim it is cruel to own a pet. Then there are those that say eating meat is cruel because you either have to kill a wild animal or raise an animal as livestock.

I'm not heading down ANY of those roads, and if it makes people feel better about themselves to label me a barbarian, then so be it. I won't be losing sleep over it.........

... So, do we call you Conan now instead of Dan?

Ugh. Grrowwl. Grmph.

Can we get back to that cat fishing idea? Now there is a sport that deserves a look

I love the catfishing idea as well!

Jacoby referred the study conducted by Edinburgh's Roslin Institue... have any of you read this? If you have a copy, please send it to me as I have only seen the synopsis work up on this one.

They injected bee venom and acetic acid (vinegar) into the jaws of fish and observed them. The study was conducted well with some interesting control and observation methods. They observed the fish reacting to a stimulus by rubbing their face against the gravel and delays in eating.

This was then interpreted to be... pain. Hmm, let's see, can you define pain? Presence of nociceptor cells (cells designed to react to negative stimuli)? Fish have them, humans, mammals, birds, etc. But does that mean nociceptor reaction is pain?

How about a sedated human whose body undergoes nociceptor reactions during surgery? Is that pain? I would venture it isn't, just an automated response to external stimuli.

How about the presence of certain portions of the cerebral cortex? Mammals have it.... but fish do not. Hmm, this is the same area that lights up under MRI during painful stimuli.... fish do not possess it.

So now that we have some scientific data on this..... is the view of fish feeling pain based in science or rhetoric? If it is based in rhetoric, why promote it?

As you can see, then AR groups don't need any more ammunition to find a reason to take what we love. But then again.... this is how they work, ply to your sentiment then push the rest of the way with the "We really just only want to stop C&R, not any other form of angling."

Are you willing to be decieved?

Robert J.

If the study from Edinborough is acceptable in the substitution of bee venom and acid for a fish-hook, then Pavlov's famous dog study should be a viable extrapolation. Thus, since it is well established that a fish (released) will once again bite a fish-lure to be caught a second or more times,it therefore must not feel pain or else they would learn to avoid the negative stimuli.
So there!

As you may know I am taking classes at BCC in belleveue.One of my classes is every other monday for 3 hours. This is a decussion group about the eviroment in the pugent sound area.
I am the only person in class that hunts fishies and owns a truck or beleives that gore lost. Last week i was told that there was no reason for sport fishing. that it was just killing for fun and should be out lawed.
This was the whole class and the teacher. I was trying to make the point that if we are really serious about helping bring back the salmon and steelhead in this state then the tribes should have to follow the same rules as everyone else. I also beleive that with 85% of the worlds salmon being farmed raise their is no reason to allow a commercial fishery in the sound or the CR for anyone.
The mere fact that I included the tribes in my statment caused one student to scream at me then stomp out of the room.
All these students are hoping to find jobs in local goverment so they can change the way we live. they have told me that their goal in life is to have fishing hunting, boating , and driving your own car outlawed.
i have been told that living in the country on my own land should be stopped. they want everyone to live in side the city and only go into the woods after getting a permit.
back to the topic at hand . They all want fishing stopped becouse it is cruel and has no reason to exist. they are told by the teachers that if they support peta and other groups that one day they can make all this happen. I have a lot of fun in my class. for people that are always talking about free speach they tell me to shut up a lot.

So does this mean that Milk Bones are the preferred bait for fido fishing? It seems to me that rawhide chews would stay on the hook much better, espically with the short biters. How about live bait (where legal)? How do you rig a cat on your hook to catch a trophy Rover? Inquiring minds want to know!
P.S. What # test?

starcraft tom,

Keep up the good fight. Too bad they aren't listening, but just maybe you can get someone to think with an open mind!

I had a class at CWU that made me read and report on a book called "The Religious Right." This book was supposedly written to expose the terrorist mentality of the far right wingers that we have all read and heard about (Branch Dividians, Aryan Nations, etc.). 60% of my grade depended upon the report I had to submit. While we discussed this book in class, the outrage of the students was evident, the bias of the professor was blatant, and I sat there quietly at the window wondering where the future was taking us. It just so happend that big game season started right in the middle of this, so I came to school wearing my hat with blaze orange tape on it. I wore it in every class, but got the most crap when in this particular class. As soon as they realized I was a hunter, they began asking me a myriad of questions and attempting to impose their one sided mindset upon me. So I fought back, in the only way I could.

I wrote my report... from the view of a white supremacist sitting in a class that was attempting to promote them as criminals for what they believe. I went far out on a limb here. My father was a blatant racist, my grandfather belonged to the KKK in Tx, I heard this garbage from the time I can remember... thankfully I had an open mind and looked past the hatred and saw people for who they were, not the color of their skin or religious preference.

9 pages of blasting my class and professor went into this. I dove fully into the rhetoric I was brought up with. This paper was filled with anger, hatred, bigotry.... most of all, it was filled with facts and dates to make it a viable paper. The professor told me I could not submit it. He told me I would fail the class if I insisted on submitting this paper. When he handed me my grade, I smiled and thanked him. Then I walked straight over to the Dean's office and waited there until I could present it to him.

He happened to be a black man and was appalled at what I wrote until I explained to him that it met the criteria and that I wrote it as a form of protest. I ended up getting an A on the paper and, as far as I know, that was the last time that book was used in class.

The best thing to come of it was 3 of my fellow students really wanted to learn more. They only knew about these things by television and what their parents told them. They never had the will to speak to Neo-Nazi's or Aryan Race promoters as they feared they would get into a fight. Now they had someone to talk to that grew up with that stuff all around them and came out of it a better person. They learned a lot that day. They learned about the hate and bigotry that is promoted to children by parents and siblings for no reason other than ignorance. They learned to examine who they truly were and to learn from even the most loud mouthed person out there. Most of all, they learned that everything being taught to them in college was not gospel and the professors teach as much of their own opinion and agenda as they do cirriculum.

You can make a difference in your class... but be willing to be labeled the outcast, the bigot, the idiot, the redneck, the barbarian... in the end, one of them just may call you friend

Maybe this is why I have so much out for the AR groups... promotion of disinformation, decision based upon opinion rather than scientific evidence, bigotry, inability to open ones mind, poisoning the minds of children with one side of an issue and never letting them see the other side, scare tactics, terrorist activities (remember the labs at UW that got burned down)... it all smacks too much of my youth.

Robert J.

if you put the human words like pain, feelings, depression, etc to the fish's world The guy might have a point. But if you do that you also got to give the fish credit for smarts, joy, happiness etc. So if you do that I am guessing that the king that spits the plug next to the boat, or the bass that breaks you off in a stump, or the fish the flop around on the bank and twist and turn right back into the water must feel one hell of a rush. Boxers change punches, football, hockey, marriage
ok I thru Marriage in, all the contact sports are for the thrill of it. So Im glad Im there to help the fish get its supply of fun from its day to day life...DJ

to think the fish doesn't feel pain when he is hooked is stupid, to quit fishing because of it is equally stupid...

the analogy btwn a dog & a fish is stupid, that is unless any one knows of a fish that can guide a blind person through the streets of tacoma...

spilling hot coffee on yourself happens, getting rewarded for it is stupid....

all people have a right to express their opinion, thinking you need to give the opinions of fanatics due consideration is stupid...

the more stupid behaviour is rewarded, the stupider (sp) behaviour gets...

lastly, as i steal a quote from one my fishin buddies "I will quit fishin when a fish tells me the hook hurts"...