Well now that the cat is out of the bag about how we all have gotten screwed on the Cowlitz River Settlement Agreement, and everybody now knows that the hatchery production of "harvestable fish" has been cut way back, where will "you go" to harvest your next fish?

Will it be the "Lewis River". . . I don't think so!

That is the next biggest hatchery producer, other then the Cowlitz that fishermen have been used to count on for their harvest opportunity of hatchery fish.

Do you fishermen know that the Lewis is going through a "relicensing process" just as the Cowlitz has done in 2000?

Many, if not all, none- governmental organizations and the State and Federal agencies are the same people, and organizations who had created the "doomsday" Settlement Agreement for the Cowlitz River. They are also the same people who will be drafting the fishery "Settlement Agreement" for the Lewis River! The deals are coming down now that in all likelihood will make the Lewis River Settlement a carbon copy of the Cowlitz Settlement Agreement when it comes to "hatchery production" and harvest.

Are all of you fishermen willing to accept the same screwed up kind of settlement agreement that we got stuck with on the Cowlitz? If not, you better bust your butts now because they are talking settlement soon! American Rivers and TU will surely be the major non governmental players who will claim to represent the interests of the fishermen once again.

If you do not believe that these groups represent you, or you're fishing interests, you better start complaining "yesterday"! You can start now by emailing your complaints and concerns to "Stofiel, Veronica" Veronica.Stofiel@PacifiCorp.com

Tell her that you are not happy with the Settlement that was done on the Cowlitz and that you want to make sure that the Lewis is not handled in the same way!

If you need more information and you need the State and Federal peoples email and names, just make your request on this thread, and I will try to give you the names and emails that I have access to.

Fishermen,

You have one final opportunity now to put a stick into their "wheels" before they do to the same thing to the Lewis as what they did to all of us on the Cowlitz!

It's time for our boards "experts" like Salmo G to step up and tell this board what he foresees will be happening to the Lewis hatcheries and its sport fishery BEFORE it's to late for the fishermen to step in and demand changes!

This is a personal challenge to Salmo G, from the Cowlitzfisherman; Salmo, please inform this board on what is being proposed on the Lewis BEFORE it happens and Settlement Agreement is signed or drafted!

The public needs to see and review all the Settlement drafts BEFORE the State, Federal, or other organizations sign it and make it a done deal- just like what had happen on the Cowlitz!

Make sure that you ash Veronica to put you onto their emailing list, and to please send you any and all copies of any "draft" settlements proposals that will effect the fishery production on the Lewis. Do not count on, or think that your state and federal agencies will protect your sport fishing interests. They may have their own agenda, and it may differ from that of yours or mind. Do not let this fall through the cracks like the Cowlitz Settlement did!

That "Settlement" Agreement happened almost overnight once it was drafted, and I suspect that this one will do the same!

Good luck fishermen!

You will need it! The time is now "ripe for you" to jump in and demand to be heard!

Cowlitzfisherman

that really pisses me off

I'm not liking this

ain't it funny how some groups like to impose their ideals on everybody, instead of letting us all exist together

take washington trout for example. their ultimate goal is to have all hatcheries eradicated, and only have "wild" fish left. sure, it would be nice to have sufficient stocks of wild fish, but it's just not going to happen this day in age, especially with the insane population growth and industry around here recently, and netting and sportfishing(yes, we can be part of the problem, just refer to the F&H news and their helping to destroy the nisqually steelhead)

hatcheries are an important part of the system now, and although we should be also concentrating efforts on wild fish too, removing the hatcheries that account for a large percent of the harvest won't solve anything.

Aunty

I do not know if Fish First is involved or not. If they are not, the Lewis will really be screwed up! I do know that organizations i.e. American Rivers and TU both have "Technical" and "Legal representation" who are attending those meetings and they are going to be the only none governmental "groups" that will really have any "pulling power" with PUD, Feds, or the State.

They carry the "power" because they carry "statewide" memberships and also have the attorneys to make their issues enforceable and louldy heard.

I know that in the Relicensing of the Cowlitz, the American Rivers and their "legal reprehensive" were the only none governmental group to get paid for their participation!

Both American rivers and TU had paid staff who attended all relicensing meetings on the Cowlitz River. I was never able to find out if Tacoma was also reimbursing TU for their time like they were with Americans.

It's pretty hard for the average person to attend hundreds of meetings that are being held 50 -100 of miles away, and be able to afford to go to them! That's exactly why the state, and the feds can get away doing whatever they believe to be right. I know for a fact, that when ever we had "outside sport fishing people" attending our relicensing meetings, the state and federals people almost always keep a very low profile and were extremely guarded when they did speak out. They very open within the "group" but were very guarded outside that "group".

I am sure that a few people have attended a few of the meetings, but most of the time there is usually no one there but the utilities, their consultants, and the state and federal employees. Since all the meetings are always held during normal working days, no one can afford to take off work to attend. It's a stacked deck from day one and they all know it.

Here is a copy of Pacific Corps email list. If you look real closely 90% are state, federal, or other governmental agencies. Most of the rest, I would bet are "consultants'.

"Stofiel, Veronica" <Veronica.Stofiel@PacifiCorp.com>
To:
"'Thomas, Al'" <Al.Thomas@Columbian.com>, "'Moyer, Andy'" <amoyer@teleport.com>, "Eaquinto, Bill" <Bill.Eaquinto@Pacificorp.com>,
"'Lehning, Bill'" <cowlitz@co.cowlitz.wa.us>, "'Mahoney, Bill'" <sheriff@co.cowlitz.wa.us>, "'McKinney, Bob'" <rlm426@aol.com>,
"'Nelson, Bob'" <nelson338@aol.com>, "'Reid, Bob'" <cpr-fish@toledotel.com>, "'Winslow, Bob'" <bob.winslow@wadnr.gov>,
"'Caldwell, Brad'" <brca461@ecy.wa.gov>, "'Swift, Brett'" <bswift@amrivers.org>, "'Perleberg, Brian'" <bperleberg@kalama.com>,
"'Nordlund, Bryan'" <bryan.nordlund@noaa.gov>, "'Corey, Carl'" <ccorey@fs.fed.us>, "'Lindgren, Carl'" <carmarl@earthlink.net>,
"'Batchelor, Cathy'" <BatchelorC@co.cowlitz.wa.us>, "'Stearns, Chris'" <stearcls@dfw.gov>,
"'Casseseka, Clifford'" <cwashines@yakama.com>, "'McShane, Colleen'" <mcshanec@edaw.com>, "'Burley, Craig'" <burleccb@dfw.wa.gov>,
"'Leigh, Curt'" <leighcsl@dfw.wa.gov>, "'Rawding, Dan'" <RAWDIDR@dfw.wa.gov>,
"'Postlewait, Dana'" <dana.e.postlewait@mwhglobal.com>, "Leonhardt, David" <David.Leonhardt@pacificorp.com>,
"'Russell, David'" <cowlitztribe@tdn.com>, "'Grover, Dean'" <dgrover@fs.fed.us>, "'Swanson, Dean'" <firestar@pacifier.com>,
"'Horton, Dena'" <dena.horton@mail.house.gov>, "'Robinson, Denny'" <drobinson@cowlitzpud.org>,
"'MacDonald, Diana'" <dmacdonald@cowlitzpud.org>, "'Stuart, Don'" <donstuart@worldaccess.net>,
"'Smith, Donald B'" <tonedot@aol.com>, "'Davis, Doug'" <ddavis@davgrp.com>, "'Bishop, Duane'" <dfbishop@fs.fed.us>,
"'Hoffman, Eric'" <eric_Hoffman@or.blm.gov>, "Lesko, Erik" <Erik.Lesko@Pacificorp.com>,
"Shrier, Frank" <Frank.Shrier@Pacificorp.com>, "'Torner, Gary'" <garyandkarin@msn.com>, "'Stagner, Gene'" <eugene_stagner@fws.gov>,
"'Gilmour, George'" <ggilmour@meridianenv.com>, "'Lee, George'" <gdl@yakama.com>, "'Gabrio, Helen'" <gabe16@worldaccessnet.com>,
"Harwood, Holly" <Holly.Harwood@PacifiCorp.com>, "'Black, Ilene'" <wblack@worldaccessnet.com>, "'Fisher, Jim'" <j1fisher@or.blm.gov>,
"'Lynch, James M.'" <JMLYNCH@stoel.com>, "'Kaje, Janne'" <jkaje@stewardandassociates.com>, "'Marti, Jeff'" <jema461@ecy.wa.gov>,
"'Sampson, Jennifer'" <sampsonjr@earthlink.net>, "'Byrne, Jim'" <BYRNEJBB@dfw.wa.gov>, "'Eychaner, Jim'" <jime@iac.wa.gov>,
"'Malinowski, Jim'" <jhmalin@pacifier.com>, "'Stow, Jim'" <jim_stow@fws.gov>, "'Somers, Jocelyn'" <jocelyn.somers@usda.gov>,
"'Rupley, Joel'" <Joel.rupley@clark.wa.gov>, "'Clapp, John'" <jmclapp@juno.com>, "'Kinney, John'" <john_kinney@fws.gov>,
"'Searing, John M.'" <admin@cowlitzpud.org>, "'Roland, John'" <jroland@fs.fed.us>, "'Tyler, John'" <john.tyler@co.clark.wa.us>,
"'Weinheimer, John'" <weinhjmw@dfw.wa.gov>, "'Kloempken, Karen'" <kloemkak@dfw.wa.gov>,
"'Thompson, Karen'" <karenmthompson@fs.fed.us>, ""'Dubé, Kathy'"" <kdube@watershednet.com>,
"'Gilliam, Kathy'" <SAVUTAX@pacifier.com>, "'Brooks, Keith'" <keith.brooks@ferc.fed.us>, "'Bates, Ken'" <bateskmb@dfw.wa.gov>,
"'Malone, Kevin'" <Kmalone@mobrand.com>, "'Swanson, Larry'" <larry.swenson@noaa.gov>, "'Childers, Lynn'" <lynn_childers@fws.gov>,
"'Reese, Mariah'" <mariah_reese@excite.com>, "'Tereski, Melody'" <melodyt@lcfrb.gen.wa.us>,
"'Bonoff, Mike'" <mbonoff@masonbruce.com>, "'Henry, Mike'" <mike.henry@ferc.fed.us>,
"Garrett, Monte" <Monte.Garrett@Pacificorp.com>, "'Nalder, Nan'" <acresnan@mx.serv.net>, "'Johnson, Noel'" <noel@lewisriver.com>,
"'Trask, Phil'" <ptrask@lcfrb.gen.wa.us>, "'Ramey, Teri and Tom Wilson'" <portwood@worldaccessnet.com>,
"'VanderZanden, Rob'" <vanderzandenr@ci.woodland.wa.us>, "'Torner, Robin'" <r.torner@attbi.com>,
"'Post, Rusty'" <rpos461@ecy.wa.gov>, "'Lopossa, Ryan'" <lopossar@co.cowlitz.wa.us>, "'Fransen, Steve'" <steven.m.fransen@noaa.gov>,
"'Manlow, Steve'" <manloswm@dfw.wa.gov>, "'Rosebrough, Susan'" <Susan_Rosebrough@nps.gov>,
"'Aalvik, Taylor'" <taylorfishus@yahoo.com>, "Flores, Terry" <Terry.Flores@PacifiCorp.com>, "'Backman, Tom'" <twhb@usermail.com>,
"'Zeilman, Tom'" <tzeilman@yakama.com>, "'Winterfeld, Trudy'" <cowlitz@co.cowlitz.wa.us>, "'Yearick, Vince'" <vince.yearick@ferc.fed.us>,
"'Johnson, Darlene'" <woot@teleport.com>, "'Breckel, Jeff'" <jbreckel@lcfrb.gen.wa.us>, "'Miller, Mark'" <mdmillr@mindspring.com>,
"'Turner, Rich'" <rich.turner@noaa.gov>, "'Dave Brown'" <daveb@co.skamania.wa.us>, "'Michelle Day'" <michelle.day@noaa.gov>
CC:
"'Roma Call'" <roma@ecoisp.com>, "Rita Snyder" <ritsny@earthlink.net>, "Lois Schwennesen" <lois@schwennesenandassociates.com>,
"Kristi Wallis" <kristiwallis@sprintmail.com>, "Jim Reid" <falconer@seanet.com>, "'Nichol, Joan'" <jnichol@meridianenv.com>,
"Stenberg, Mark" <Mark.Stenberg@PacifiCorp.com>, "Bornemeier, Doug" <Doug.Bornemeier@PacifiCorp.com>


Cowlitzfisherman

Where's the RFA in this process?
Whats up Mike?

So wheres this guy at? I would think that this would be up top with a few more post.

when is Salmo G. gonna except Cowlitfisherman's challenge and tell the
board what's going on with the Lewis relicensing?
This is my backyard river and I wanna know whats up!

Even Salmo takes a vacation once in a while. I don't think he would duck a question from CFM.

Gutz,

There can be some discussion about RFA getting involved. I would like to see that happen. The challenge is that I know little bit about how many man hours it can take to be involved and if a dedicated group of people wants to step up and take it on, we can talk about throwing RFA support behind that effort.

Jerry,

Thanks, but I don't do BB challenges, and CFM has more questions than I have time. And I did take a little trout fishing vacation.

I haven't seen the latest on the Lewis. As of 2 weeks ago, there was still no agreement. The approach is similar to the Cowlitz. That is: full mitigation for project effects. It's more difficult on the Lewis because there is only one data point regarding pre-dam run sizes, and only for coho. So the fish population sizes were estimated with a model, and people disagree roughly according to their pre-conceived notions about how many fish there were in the good old days.

Generally, the utilities (Pacificorp and Cowlitz Co. PUD) agree to the full mitigation concept, but they think stakeholders are trying to double and triple dip into their purse. What that means is some folks want it all: full hatchery production, fish passage at all the dams, and restoration of all the habitat. That may be well and good, but it isn't what the law provides for. Please refer to the Cowlitz thread where I described that.

Again, the utilities want to be able to deduct the natural production that results from reintroduction and fish passage facilities from their hatchery production responsibility. That does seem fair - not to mention legal - to me. They are only responsible for the fish that would be there if they hadn't built the dams, not twice as many.

Anyway, no agreement yet. I should get a report on what's happening by the end of this week.

Oh, and Fish First is on the front line there.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.