AuntyM,

I'm sure that it is not active, and they prefer the real easy tickets, i.e. parking decals. And they love buying new real fast boats that they do not know how to operate, for pleasure busts or stings. Like the recent cedar tree incident on the Cowlitz.

RL let me ask you this, would you prefer WDFW to chase down that poaching ring in a Sears Gamefisher with an 8 hp on the back, or in a "fast" enough boat where they could ACTUALLY catch them. You know the cops got faster cars too...

You can't out-run the radio, as long as you can get an ID on the boat, it's done.

To all:

What a friggin JOKE!!!

You do- gooders just kill me sometimes!

You all sit here and tell us what a great job the WDFW law enforcement is doing on the Cowlitz and how they should be enforcing the laws. You say that WDFW is just doing their jobs on the Cowlitz because the "legislators" have mandated them to do. What a bunch of hog crap!!

Every time I bring up the issue about the failures of WDFW, especially on the Cowlitz, I hear you whining about how under paid and over worked they are. Like I said, that's a bunch "hog crap!" Now why would I say such a terrible thing like that?

OK you bureaucrats, here it comes so you better hang on to your panties!

You say that WDFW is just doing their jobs, right? That's plain BS! WDFW spends big bucks down on the Cowlitz River screwing the "fishermen", by writing a bunch of stupid a$$ parking tickets and running up and down the river crashing their boats!

They can find the time and money to do these kinds of enforcement stings on the fishermen on the Cowlitz, but they can't find the time or money to enforce the laws when it comes to allowing the fishermen his rights to have access the land that the WDFW spent over $40,000 dollars of our license fees on!

That's right, WDFW spent over $40,000 (and that was in the value of the dollar in 1971!) to purchase "public fishing easements" to the biggest Public Use Site on the Cowlitz, and now we can't even use it because some jerk has decided to keep the public out, while he let's his buddies in. And it's all on same land easements that WDFW paid $40,000 for us to use. And you guys wonder why I get so pi$$ed off at WDFW!!!

The Wallace Gravel Pit easement was bought by WDFW in 1971, so that 1000's of yards of access easements could be used by the public for fishing. But oh no, WDFW would much rater spend all of there efforts, time and money in writing some stupid a$$ parking ticket instead of writing the guy who is blocking our public fishing access a ticket!! Like I said, what a bunch of Hog crap!

Now how could anyone defend WDFW actions after knowing the real facts? We are being denied access to our own fishing access easements while the WDFW officers are playing parking maids! They will write us a ticket for trespassing to get to our fishing waters, but they won't write the "Jerk" a ticket for blocking our legal access to the water!

Cowlitzfisherman

Amen to that, at least there's one other person out there that feels the same way I do about the way the real people get screwed by the WDFW and other government agencies. We pay for something once that we should all have access to and then we get screwed for using it if we don't pay again!

Since when did they start busting poaching rings? I cant even get them to bust little poaching rings! You know, the type of poaching rings that a sears gamefisher would be perfect for?


River runner,
Yes your also right about the wardens not even knowing the regulations they are to enforce, its the same here.

Glowball,
You dont have a clue whats going on in the real world do you?, funny how you can say so much about people you know absolutly nothing about. I may be the son of a warden for all you know. Why dont you fill us in on the rest of the "pie" instead of just stopping in here to rass everybody with a different opinion than yours. Tell us why they are harrassing sportfishermen instead of busting poachers. whats the big secret glowball?

RIGHT ON COWLITZ!

4salt
I would prefer they know how to run a river with a game fisher safely than learning with a big V8 in a big boat, my point is WDFW Enforcement looks for any excuse to spend BIG MONEY on boats and vehicles that they can't operate safely! Take Saturdays encounter with the cedar tree.. GEE YA think they might have been going to fast to make the corner.. Thus not knowing how to control the boat in dangerous conditions! Oh yeah and I really like someone (WDFW Enforcement) being on top of the current regs i.e. there is a 3 FISH LIMIT ON YHE COW not 2, as they told my buddy.

Well where are all you bloody bureaucrats who were crying before about enforcement? Cat got your guys tongues? Can you tell us how hard WDFW enforcement is now working to cover up their butts on this one?

I started calling all the key WDFW people at 9:00 am this morning and I still have not had one person in authority call me back yet with an answer. . . I wonder why?

Now that I have walked the talk again, don't you think WDFW should do the same?

I am waiting, waiting, waiting for them to answer! Oh, I know, they are to busy giving out parking tickets while we can't use the public access that we have already paid for!

Cowlitzfisherman

Cowlitzfisherman-
Your clear dislike and distrust of WDFW is coloring your thinking!

When I suggested that WDFW might consider charging the going rate for use of a boat launch you replied-

"That sounds like the logic of every government bureaucrat that I know! Charge us for something we already have paid for, just to keep your own agency jobs in tack! "

As you well know what we all ready paid for was the acquisition and development of an access site. However, they still require annual upkeep. Someone needs to clean up the garbage that the various slobs leave, repair flood and erosion damage, repair damage caused by vandalism and other general maintenance. This all costs money - above and beyond the original cost. Does anyone doubt that those costs are increasing with the seemly endless increase in users of the various accesses.

As I see it there are really four choices in pay for the upkeep on public accesses (without that upkeep will soon have none).

1) Money from the state general fund - a move I consider very unlikely.

2) The current access permit system - for this to work enforcement action is need to insure compliance.

3) Increase of WDFW license fees - not likely to recieve support for most buyers.

4) Charge launch fees at rate that would recover the maintenance costs. Again it would require enforcement but at least only those using a area are paying. As I suggested earlier in my part of the state the typcial daily fees are in the $5 to $10 range.

I would like to know how you expect the maintenance costs to be meet from the original purchase cost?

Tight lines
Smalma

smalma,

Were not complaining about being required to have a sticker. After all it comes with are license! were complaining about the misuse of wdfw resources. Game wardens writing parking tickets at a boat launch where the users are predominatly fishermen with licenses who obviously have a permit but may have forgotten to post it. Also gamies stocking people just to jump on them and make sure there fish is punched imediatly upon landing.
Most importantly on a river where the fish are pretty much all hatchery fish. Mean while I have never seen such diligents on a river that supports a stock of mainly naturally spawning fish. Second off I am sick and tired of the attitude of some of these officers, some are very unprofessional and if they were not officers I would like to give them an attitude adjustment!
I have never had a ticket and never plan on getting one though I have had more than my share of encounters with officers who tryed to write me tickets and would have if I did not know the regs so good! Its a big pain in the arse when the wardens dont know the regs and try to make up there own! I guess you can call that corruption in a way. I and many other people have many reasons to disrespect the wdfw and its only going to get worse unless they start doing what we the sports fishermen who pay there wages want them and pay them to do and that is protect are NATURAL resources not harrass inocent people or people who may screw up a little here and there in terminal or hatchery fisheries. I know I am not the only one who has witnessed gross violations on natural runs and could not get wdfw to even raise a finger! yet they are always in full force on hatchery rivers or terminal fisheries. Going for the easy money and filling there qouta with small timers. Every once and awhile they fall into a good bust and they play it up on the website, that says something about how often they actually do there job! if they concentrated half the effort they currently do now on the small guy on catching big timers it would not be such big news but it would be a job well done. were not stupid were out here fishing every day we see everything that goes on its about time the state stops playing us for fools! Sheep follow blindly most fishermen are quite a bit smarter then the average citizen. Though some of us may not spell worth a crap.

Smalma

That's kind of funny Smalma that you would say;
You have been on this board long enough to known why I have formed such an opinion about WDFW. It didn't just happen overnight, nor was such an opinion formed without any foundation. I have posted example after example on this board documenting why I have formed such an opinion about certain aspects of the bureaucracy in WDFW.

Certainly not all of WDFW personal are screwed up, but after working with many of your staff members for over 18 years, I do believe that you guys have a real problem in your top management. This is the place where WDFW policies are formed and implemented.

It appears now that no mater who becomes your director, your still stalemated by the "old watch" and their lasting influence that they have maintained on any directors decision making ability. You been around long enough to know about these old guards, and there polices that they continue to promote. It just never ends until they have all retired, and then we must deal with these same clowns as "consultants" who hire out their expertise to huge Power companies such as Tacoma, Pacificcorp, etc, etc.

Yea, one does get a little tired of seeing the internal games that WDFW is so well noted for and yes, it does make one form some pretty harsh opinion of WDFW. Even those I have worked with many good WDFW personal, it still does not change my point of view about how screwed up WDFW really is.

Yes, I have tried to work within, and I am still trying to work within WDFW, but it just seems to never get any better. WDFW has become Washington's leading bureaucracy nightmare to its own people who they must depend upon for support. I can think of numerous examples WDFW inability to safe guard our resources or to enhance our sport fishing opportunity (which are both legal mandates). Here are two that come to mind as I am writing this reply.

One example is the "Wallace Gravel Pit" access issue. Key WDFW staff were notified in writing and verbally told of this issue numerous times starting back in June of 2001.

WDFW has spent well over $40,000 to procure this public fishing easement for the fishermen. They paid the owner for the easement and to build the road that lead to the river and even posted it with a sign saying that it was a "WDFW Public Fishing Area".

So 17 years later, the same guy who sold the game department the fishing easement comes backs, removes the signs, and then precedes to extend his gravel mining operation over the right of way and remove the easement road by mining all the same material that the game department paid him to put down. Worse yet, WDFW has allowed this jerk to gate off the easement entrance so that the only way to reach the river bank now is to walk over four thousand feet (that’s 4,000 feet) to reach the river bank to fish. That's a bunch bull $hit and in my opinion, both the owner and someone in WDFW ought to spend a few days in a ceil! I am still working as I write with WDFW on this issue, but it's already been thee years.

Second one that comes to my mind was the Cascade Aqua Farm fiasco on the Tilton River. There, WDFW allowed a private fish farmer to install a Atlantic Salmon Fish Farm and place a 3 foot retaining wall all the way across the Tilton River so that his projects water intake would remain stable. In tern for getting his water and destroying a bunch of wet land, and building the retaining structure, top WDFW only required him to mitigate by using his poop discharge channel for mitigation purposes. The field staff for WDFW wrote numerous letters to their superiors and addressed their concerns like you wouldn't believe!

All of the field "biologists" were 100% opposed to using his poop channel as migration, but they were overruled by key up top WDFW staff. Shortly after the field biologist had written to his superiors documenting his concerns about this project, He was transferred to Eastern Washington! Yea, you can say that he "wanted to" go there, but the word inside WDFW was that he rocked the boat of his bosses just a little too much! And if you think that I am putting a spin on this, or that I am not telling the trust, I suggest that you ask Salmo G about this "stinking issue" He was in on it and tried his best to help as he could, but WDFW and their clone WDOE out voted him. Now every year, they are catching Atlantic smolts at the Mayfield Dam fish collection facilities which just so happens to be where the Tilton Rivers dumps into!

Now I wonder how those Atlantics are getting there.....must be the birds are bringing them there!


So yea, I guess you could say that I may have formed a little coloring towards the WDFW!

If you need more reasons, it sure won't take me long to write about them!

Smalma, in this case it's not one bad apple that's going to spoil the barrel; it's the "barrel" that is ruining all the apples

Your just one of those poor apples in a rotten barrel !!


Cowlitzfisherman

CFM,

So, how do you feel in regards to Smalma's last question on maintenance funds? Also, ever hear anything back from WDFW about last weeks incident? Curious.

fish monger

You asked me; "So, how do you feel in regards to Smalma's last question on maintenance funds?"

Well I guess that WDFW must do what you or I must do! That's called "living within your budget"! Did you ever think how much that huge building cost us that they call their office in Olympia? Did they really need a new building that size? Or was it just WDFW's thought; "build it and they will come". . . new jobs for WDFW and more!!

Sometimes government just needs to clean their own house and quite whining about not having enough funds and money. They never ever have enough money!! Maybe some of them need to get out in the real world for a while and compete for their jobs like most of must do. Maybe if the state employees had to buy their own heath insurance instead of just paying pennies to our dollars, they would learn to "expect less" funding from us. Maybe if they could wait a year or two to buy new equipment, or trucks like most of us have to do, they could save us even more.

Maybe if they would quite costing the public so much in wages and benefits increases, we would have more money to spend on improvements that would benefit both the fish and us. Why must it always be the "other public" that must fork up the money for their jobs and their needs?

If it was me, I would turn the game enforcement over to the "local law enforcement" and forget about spending millions of dollars on these "special officers" One thing for sure, bureaucrats knows how to spend money! I think it's up to WDFW to breakdown there budget in a way that the "average sportsmen" can understand it and show how much actually comes into WDFW, and then show exactly what that money actually went out to. Once that is made available in a simple readable form, we can then see what needs or doesn't need additional funding.

As far as charging new lunch fees, that issue had already been figured into our licenses a long time ago! That was just an excuse for adding the stupid new permit that we must now have. It appears to me that it is just another way that WDFW robs Peter to feed Paul! The money goes into a WDFW "general fund" and then they use it for whatever they feel like using it for. We didn't need it before the special permits came out, so that tells me that they are using it for something else that is now costing them more money to do. So why hasn't WDFW been more open with us, and told us the real truth why they now need more funding?

If our state agencies are in finical trouble now, they have no one else to blame for it then themselves! It's just like you or I, if you don't have the money, you don't write the check!!!

If you do, you will surly wind up just like California with a 38 billion deficit.

Good or bad, you asked for my opinion and now you got it!

Cowlitzfisherman

Damn price of beer to much anyway... No more lunch fees....

Hey, if that little sticker will keep the launches open and at least semi maintained, let'em write tickets...

if your stupid enough to park without one on your car you deserve a ticket...

Sometimes it does gripe me when I see a gamey check the sticker on the car and not the licence in the pocket or the fish in the cooler. But it is the easiest 66 bucks the wdwf can make...

Turning fish and wildlife enforcement over to local law enforcement is a very bad idea. If you think we lack enforcement presence now, turning it over to local enforcement agencies would result in no enforcement of fish and wildlife laws. If an officer had to choose between a domestic violence call or snagging in progress, how do you think the officer would respond? Public safety would always come before enforcing any fish and wildlife laws.

Look at Oregons use of the OSP. They have alot of problems with rookies at the launches enforcing rules that don't exist or rules they have no clue about.

If the local police or state police are supporting a gamie then it's a different story. I would hope that the gamey would brief them beforehand on what they were looking for.

As far as locals sending cops out on their own to enforce laws they know nothing about.............thats a scary idea.

Sinker

They already do it right now in Washington !! The state patrol gives out fishing violations all the time!

Cowlitzfisherman

CFM, without trying to incite anything, do you know how many game violation tickets the WSP wrote last year? Of those, how many were incidental to a traffic stop as opposed to in the field (rivers, lakes, etc)? I really don't know the answers but believe you may have the numbers that would back up your arguement.

eddie

I don't know the exact numbers, we here at the Cowlitz River have a state trooper who writes lots of tickets up at the Cowlitz barrier dam. They work hand and hand with WDFW enforcement on nailing snaggers and guys with over limits, and guys that are fishing above the marker line

Cowlitzfisherman