Last fall I was fishing on the Quilcene, with my son for sivers and was told that I was on private property. My son and I were both standing in the river. We parked up by the hatchery bridge and walked down about 1/2 mile. We waded the river and fished on the way down. When we got down as far as we wanted to go a gentleman told me that we were on private property. I said that we didn't realize this sense we were standing in the river itself. I always thought that anything down from the high water mark was considered accessable. Does anyone out there know anything about this river and what is considered legal access. If I was wrong for being there then I apologize. But if this was a land owner just wanting to keep fisherman out of the hole below his house then I will see you back there again this fall. Thanks.

Just smile and give him the "dustoff" next time. If the deputies show up and tell you to leave, THEN I'd probably listen just to avoid a ride in his car.

Dan, I would agree with you. I am not out there to cause trouble. Just out to enjoy the day with my son. But I have heard of some folks making up there own definitions of river access laws to suit there own needs.

Ahh the Kill-scene (Quilcene ) Is it that time of year again already...

4salt, I actually haven't been up there yet this year. I think it was about mid-Sept. last year. Great river for silvers. We enjoyed ourselves last year.

I was just being a little facetious DUSTOFF. I don't think it even opens until Saturday. And yes, I know all that I need to know about it...

Yes, indeed. I'm sure the residents along the Quil get a little tired of the crowds than descend upon the river every year......but that's just how it goes. I'm sure he'd LIKE you to leave, but I don't think he, or anyone else for that matter, can make you leave.

Now if TimberMan asks you to leave......make tracks.

Just don't run out of barley, AM........justdon't run out.

i'm pretty sure that as long as you stay below the high water mark you should be fine

While up at our vacation home in Brinnon last week,I just happened to drive to the Quilcene to see if any fish hit the holding pond yet.As I thought.No!!

What I did see where you walk over the hill by the bridge and in a couple other places were signs placed by WDFW that said the Quilcene had been deemed to be not navigable water.That if you were standing in the river on private property,That most of the property on that river is owned by the landowners.Including the river bottom you were indeed trespassing if you didnt have permission from the owner to be there.

It explicity explained and showed a map of the access that was set up by WDFW and said that if there is as much trouble there this year as in years past(ie.snagging,trespassing,and garbage dumping) the river might be closed completely to fishing.

I explained to my wife,from what I understood about navigable water.From postings by CFM and others that the navigable waters laws were a federal thing and that The state cant supercede it.If a person had enough time and money they could probably beet the trespassing.I dont have the time or the money,Plus I probably only think thats what I read instead of being true,so I could be wrong about that part. You might do some research and save yourselves a bunch of trouble.

They ARE Federal laws and the WDFW and the State of Washington don't have a damn thing to say about it.

If you have the dough to fight it all the way up through the courts, you'll win. But get ready to lay down some $$$$.

I'd rather just avoid the debacle........but that doesn't do much for our rights as fishers, does it?

Oh yeah.....thanks WDFW for looking out for our water access rights. And a fine thank you to the losers leaving trash and crapping in people's yards that got this whole thing stirred up. Grrrrrrrrrrr.

Just because it's a federal law doesn't mean the state has it wrong. I haven't read the law, and, honestly, don't know what the definition of navagible waters is, or who is charged with deciding with deciding what navagible water is, but I doubt that all flowing water is considered navagible water. And it could be up to a local governmental body to determine what water is navagible. If somebody wants to post a link to the relevant statute/code provisions, I'd love to take a look at it (too lazy/busy to hunt it down myself).

3/0,

You name me another time when a State could override FEDERAL law. They can't. Federal law trumps anything the states decide. That's why a state can pass a medicinal marijuana law and STILL have federal agents arresting people.

The Taxas Sodomy law? Struck down in the Federal courts. That's how the legal system works.

Click the link : http://www.nationalrivers.org/us-law-menu.htm

Would it be useful to make a "pre-emptive" strike before the fishing season gets seriously under way? I don't fish this river and don't have a personal stake, but have read about it here, and I do have a personal stake in access to waters of the State of Washington.

How's about we contact WDFW enforcement - if that's who posted the notice (can someone in the area check it out?) - and describe our understanding of the law. Federal court has ruled that water navigable in fact is navigable in law. Many of us take that to mean if we can float any boat, a canoe, a small raft, whatever, or a commercial sawlog 8" diameter by 4' long, then the water body is navigable. We could ask WDFW to provide an Assistant Attorney General's opinion supporting their contention that this river isn't navigable. WDFW is supposed to be working for us, and not necessarily working around the law to avoid dealing directly with issues of littering and tresspassing.

I won't be able to assist directly on this as I'm heading out of town for a week this Saturday, but I thought I'd make the suggestion here, as this issue appears ripe for a meaningful resolution.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Good reply Salmo!


Cowlitzfisherman

Just more proof the wdfw is not doing its job. I dont fish at that mad house anymore but what the heck is the wdfw posting signs that limit our access for, signs that dont even seem to be legal.

and people wonder why I am pissed at the wdfw?

What there really doing is providing themselves with a smaller area they have to patrol, there by making there job easier again!
look at the adopted rules section on there own website sometime. alot of rule changes have nothing to do with science but everything to do with making there job easier they even say that!

Micro

Can you believe that WDFW has the gonads to spend their time and money posting signs that tells the fishermen that they CAN NOT fish in these places, when WDFW can not find the time or money to go out to places like the "Wallace Gravel Pits", and post signage that tells fishermen that this a "public fishing site". What a bunch of hypocrites!!

And some board members wonder why we are getting on WDFW!!!

Cowlitzfisherman

just sent an email off to wdfw,diretor type person, asking for some answers to the above questions. we should all send a note to them, not just this board.

havnfun, I just made the same request. If I was wrong for fishing on what was considered someone's land then I apologize. But if not then I am pissed. That was a great fishing hole. No big deal I will just fish else where if I have to. Good fishing.

They ought to just close it down for good. I grew up in that area and my family has been there for 5 generations. It is a mad house of snaggers and tresspassers who dont care about private property or being clean. It is to small and low throught the Coho run. Its the type of fishery that atracts fisherman with bad habits!

Don't close the river down close the bad behavior, bring in the troops and put the fire out before it even hits. If the enforcers know there is going to be a problem then fix the damn thing. don't sit there and let a pot of **** boil, come on the authorities I believe are just as guilty and stupid as the meth head snagging, littering, urinating, and defeacing the river. Damn if I knew there were going to be 100 ways I could kick ass in my job very easily and quickly I would love that and jump on it like a swedish bikini model in a pool of my choice of jellow. Land owners jumpon the makin money train sell passes, get some fish from the guys down there, sell some lemonade, and damn you might have a group of guys running debrit out of your yard for free. Fisherman, I highly doubt there are guys out here on the forum doing that crap but hey if I see someone down there fing up I m going to speak out so if you see a short guy getting his ass kicked by four a holes hook me up with some back, cheers, JFK

just checked my email... reply from Evan Jacoby legal service for wdfw, he states that wdfw did not post any signs that he is aware of. and also per the 13th coast guard distrit the quill is a non-navigable river,so we can not walk down it and not be trespassing!

i agree. go after the people who are in the wrong instead of just closing the water. however, knowing the wdfw's track record, they would just take the easy way out and close it.

the idea of closing water because of the snaggers it attracts is idiotic. take care of the snaggers, and you take care of the problem. it just seems the wdfw is more busy giving out parking tickets than going after real problems

there are other reasons to close down the quilcene to that kind of pressure...

...the first one that comes to mind is the threatened native summer chum run in that river.

Chum Man:

I do not agree that the WDFW should just go stop the snaggers. I have NEVER put a hook in the kill scene and never will, but I have watched the zoo several times. If they put half dozen agents on the river every day they still wouldn't make a dent in the problem. Bottom line is the kill scene is almost always too low and clear to fish in September. Almost all the fish taken there are snagged. AND there is a fragile run of summer chums in there at that time. They too are snagged by the damn fools who, leave trash everywhere, crap on private landowners property and trespass.

If the river in not navigable, which means most access involves trespassing, the fish wont bite, and the mobs are littering everywhere it should be closed!

We close tavern and night clubs that are consistently a problem. Why not streams?

If the locals must have these fish to survive, we could hand them out at the hatchery.

I once sought a game warden to go ticket the idiots snagging by the lower bridge. He told me he couldn’t write any more tickets as his paperwork was backed up from all the tickets he had already written.

My dad and I fished the Quil back in the early 80's. At that time I was 5 or 6 years old. We would go under the bridge on 101 during the Coho run with the 3 to 5 other guys that were there. I pitched spinners for jacks and my dad pitched eggs for the silvers and occasional king. Never remember seeing more than half a dozen people. We also fished it for hatchery steelhead in winter, (my dad anyways and I watched, I was too young), I remember one day when my dad hooked and landed 8 brat steelies under the bridge, no other people in sight. Infact I never remember seeing another person when I was with my dad steelhead fishing in winter.

The presure was light on the river up untill it closed down for salmon when I was 12 or 13. I havent been back.

I have stopped by and watched the liners and snaggers harass the Coho that are to scared to bite in the ultra low and clear waters. I see people tresspassing dumping out garbadge and such where ever they want.

I have no idea what happened. Why in the world or how did it become so popular in the time it was closed down? I just cant figure it out. It is not even the slightest bit attractive as a fisherie the the amounts of presure and idiots.

And yes it should be closed! The only exception I could see is open it for kids 12 and under and people 75 and older.

I could be wrong as I get older my memory is a little worse for the wear.And it has been a couple weeks.But my wife and I both believe that the signs were posted by WDFW.
I should have paid more attention I guess.
1 thing I do remember was that they discouraged wading in the river because they dont want any spawning beds disturbed.I can definitely understand that.

Some of you guys forgot Salmo g’s point. Let’s not forfeit river access, there are better ways to deal with snagging. I went to the Quill one day last year, (note: after a rain). The fishing shall we say was good. The fish were running through on the tide and biting lots of different gear for me, I mostly caught and released except this pig for the BBQ. I think the signs posted by WDFW are a problem, but I hope that they help to avoid closure of the river, and at the same time leave a sanctuary area (if needed) for the summer chums. I hate litter; I filled a few bags on the same day, I cleaned out the entire parking lot of everything also. Why you may ask? Cause I’m tired of losing access to rivers. If you want to close it because of snagers and litterbugs then you will lose every river eventually.

Thanks for the link. Interesting stuff.
I'm a lawyer -- no need to get explain the supremacy clause to me.

If that link is accurate in its summation of the law, it sounds like the WDFW is just fat out wrong here. No doubt they're pandering to fed-up property owners.

Of course if you dont like crowds then dont go there, it can be really crowded, not something to do to "get away from it all". The law enforcement is actually quite heavy,
Yes there are better places to fish, maybe we can send all these people out to forks, but I doubt you want that. Education is the key, show folks how to fish legaly, then they wont snag, peer presure works also. If everyone gets pissed at snagers then they will stop.
Keep up the enforcment and keep the river open, dont lose you rights to fish.

How would a half dozen officers not make a dent on illegal or immoral activity going on in an area of approximately one mile. If you had men and women kicking ass doing the paper work making the arrests, putting the hammer down then guess what you would make a dent, although if you have a half dozen lazy slacking enforcement agents like there must be because the job just isn't getting done then yeah you will have trashy people doing trashy things. I have no experience in law enforcement except the experience gathered in my teens doing massive undercover keg expeditions and other top secret endevures but if you handed me the ugly stick to whack people for infractins I garuntee you I could have 20 open containers, 100 snagging tickets, 20 no license tickets, and 50 littering tickets in one day. You give me a week and I will give you 10 guys out for warrants in the paddy wagon. Damn can't people understand the concept of making a good situation out of a bad one. If you want to catch a criminal who is a ( **** bag) then go to where the fellow **** bagger's congrigate. Astalavista dumb asses, now if a steady two or three days of that goes down well I think the point has been made and a standard has been set.
Rich I am really sorry your precious serenity of fishing has been tainted and I feel your pain but we happen to live in a place where every body not just the 12 year old's and the elderly get to enjoy the fruits of washington's labor. If you really feel so strongly about the all this then go visit these idiots and tell them how they ruined the fishery. Heck I will go with you and call people on their idioticy.

looks like a Cracker fest if you ask me

Lead,

That's putting it VERY mildly!

IMO, the Quilcene is the absolute WORST example of all that is wrong with freshwater salmon "sportfishing", and an apalling display of the most primal human behavioral characteristics. Greed topping the list.

Wow! Maybe I should quit beating around the bush and state how I REALLY feel!

I don't think anyone will even argue that point, 4S........ BUT that's not the point. Access is the issue here.

Jacoby is using weasel tactics. Sure the Quil isn't navigable according to the CG........neither is the Satsop, Nooch, Hump, Sky etc. Clearly they ARE navigable, the just haven't been designated as such.

I know Dan. That last post was just a general opinion. The Quilcene navigable? maybe by the beer cans and other assorted trash that float down it, but I'd LOVE to see anyone even try taking an innertube down that creek. Comparing it to the Hump, Satsop etc... is apples and oranges.

As far as access, Havnfun posted that Evan Jacoby sent him an e-mail denying that WDFW posted any of the signs. Do you think he was lying? If I had to guess, I'd bet that one (or more) of the unhappy landowners might have posted those signs in hopes of not having to re-live the nightmare that they experience every year. Before we all jump on the "WDFW sucks" bandwagon, wouldn't it be nice to know for sure?

Surecatch is absolutely correct in his observation as well. The ONE (and only) time I visited the Quilcene (couldn't bring myself to actually fish) there must have been 3 to 4 HUNDRED people lining both banks from 101 almost all the way to Richards rd. It would take a National Guard unit to round up and ticket all of the snaggers.

Hey, if anyone wants to "fish" it, that's their own personal choice. But c'mon, let's not pretend that all of the sh!t that happens there doesn't warrant at least second look at current access policy.

I DO NOT want to see any access denied to fishers anywhere, but in the case of the Quil, true fishers are in the definite minority, and I could give a rip if the snaggers, litterers, and vandals receive ANY rights or access privileges.

OK, I've already gotten farther into this than I intended, so this is all I'm going to say about the kill scene.

Oh sure lets close it and put 400 snaggers on some wild fish somewhere! That a really smart suggestion!

just opened another message from wdfw, this one stated tgat paul and phil the enforcement people up there have been asked to go look for said signs. wdfw is looking into it.

Micro,

Since you are obviously far more knowledgeable on this subject than I, which "wild" runs occurring from mid-August through September do you think the snaggers would descend upon if the Quilcene were closed? I can think of one right now that is already being snagged: the WILD ENDANGERED summer chum that are attempting to spawn in the Quilcene river.

Snaggers pretty much ONLY congregate where their chances of actually snagging something make it worthwhile. Terminal hatchery areas for example. "Wild" runs are already being snagged heavily, and have been for years. Except for Hoodsport and a couple of other state hatcheries, ALL of the chum and pink salmon runs are wild, and idiots snag the sh!t out of them every year.

As usual, your argument bears NO factual merit, so if I may be so kind as to offer you a minor suggestion: It is already suspect that you lack the cognitive abilities to truly understand the complexities of fisheries management issues, so why make posts like the one above and remove all doubt.

I dunno 4salt...

...I'd pay money to see said snaggers try to 'snag' themselves a Hoh river springer or wild summer run...

...or I can see the brainstorming session it would take to come up with that plan "well elmer, they closed the Quilcene so lets go snag us some nates instead...

Newsflash:

Snaggers don't 'fish', they snag.