OK Dan, my bad.
I could of expressed the last post with different words.
I applogize for my disrespectful comment toward you. You may be correct. My 15 years of experience had gotten me very successful these last several years; however I am an open minded person so I will take your advice to see if I can advance in this sport to a higher level.

Glow,
No hard feelings.
I fish with a very nice custom 10.5 loomis.
Its a one of a kind in the world; a weapon of choice for HOGS which my dad had built for me 5 years ago. Next year I will have a 12.5 Angler Workshop "Catchem and Clubbem" rod build by the best, my dad.

Thanks for the conversation guys.

hmmm fish do hit lures, they do hit bait for whatever reason.. Chums do it, chinooks do it, coho do it, pinks do it and certainly winter and summer steelhead do it. when it happens it isn't a fluke.. Seasoned fishermen know the difference.. catching fish in such a way that the fish doesn't intentionally take the hooks into it's mouth is illegal PERIOD!!! thats it and their ain't no more. if a fish won't bite leave it alone! if there are 1000 fish in a pool below a hatchery and they won't bite leave them alone... It's time WDFW stop promoting these kinds of fisheries..

Actually Rob, "attempting" to catch fish in such a way that the fish doesn't intentionally take the hooks into it's mouth is illegal. You can catch them any way they get hooked but, if it's a salmon and if it's in fresh water, you are not allowed to keep them unless they are hooked in the head.

For example - If you are fishing with a spoon and the fish hits the spoon and the hook behind the spoon pulls forward and gets stuck in the outside of the fishes mouth you were not snagging. You were attempting to get the fish to intentionally bite the hook which it would have if only the ignorant fish would have approached it from behind instead of from the side.

Furthermore it is legal to keep the fish, even if it is a salmon and it is caught in fresh water.

I wonder when they will breed a fish that can look at a hook and think, "I really want to get that thing stuck in my mouth so I can get drug around the river until I'm all tuckered out and then get my picture taken."

You get my point? Hope so cause I really do believe that you might be smarter than a fish.

this is the law straight from the wa legislature page for keeping salmon http://www.leg.wa.gov/wac/index.cfm?fuseaction=Section&Section=220-56-215 cant get any clearer then that. the regs are wrong when it clarifies snagging and thats why it is being changed next year to what this law says. anyways this law only applies to salmon. hope that this will put all the arguements to rest

Just to clarify. the reason thre guys at blue creek do better with the 6 foot leaders is not because they are flossing. its because there are several large boulders down there and the longer leader provides for better visability. to be effective at flossing you need to be using at least a 10 foot leader preferably 15 to 20!

Thats really smart thinking rob. Did you ever stop to think that the more hatchery surplus there is the larger the commercial qoutas will be! for example the columbia river fishery!

With talk like that you should be heading up peta real soon!

We get 45 replies in two days on this beaten-to-jello-dead-horse issue, while the gill nets are out raping puget sound.....

Iron Head,

Don't sweat me........I've been in a foul mood since being infected with some voodoo virus a couple days ago.

It's kept me off the rivers and home from work. Who the hell stays home from work and doesn't go fishing?

Talk to you later.........

Aix
you got to be kidding I can show you some fellas that are very good a flossing with 4 inches of leader they just use the mainline for the floss. I can also show you a spot where they use no leaders and a lead head jig (LEFT ON THE BOTTOM NOT SWIMMING)and they are flossing....but like the game warden said "they are using a leagel lure and catching fish in or near the mouth and I cant bring a fish infront of a jury to testify weither in bit or ran into the line" so what can he do.....DJ

Sorry to break it to you fellas. If you fish for salmon with corky/yarn (tailor-made floss rig) you are probably lining fish. I'm not saying all the fish you catch are flossed, but those 20 fish days are probably 5 fish days - if you want to count the fish that actually "bit" your presentation. It doesn't matter how long your leader is either. Obviously a 20 foot leader will floss more fish. However, when fish are in thick, a 2 footer will do. Same goes for jigging and fly fishing. I watched some guy flyfishing the Puyallup (with zero visibility I might add) in mid september. He had a fish on every time I looked over. Do you honestly think that those fish "took" his presentation on purpose. Of course not...... Sure they were in the mouth. THEY WERE FLOSSED. The funny thing was the fact that this guy thought he was such a "purist." Hey, to each their own. I'm sure he had no idea what he was doing. He didn't look too savvy with the 7 weight. Flossing is way more common than many people think.

Flossing is the answer to the fish that don't bite... I enjoy flossing, it takes more skill than the best of the best bait boys!! For those that don't believe it, then come out and try for yourself. It's an art to make a cast and have your line floss a fish without it spooking.....
Salmongigger OUT!!!!

This keeps coming up and I want to know where this little bit of dissinformation originated.
I also had several people at the "slay fest at the Satsop" tell me that the gammies said it was ok to keep one native Silver. Since niether situation is mentioned anywhere that I can find in the Pamphlet edition of the fishing rules, one is left wondering which States rule book these people mistakenly picked up on thier way to the river.

grumpyr-
It states it clearly in the regs that flossing is legal... Where did you go to school and learn to read???

It states that if a fish is hooked in the mouth or somewhere around it ie. gillplate forward you can BONK it....

Read for yourself!!!

26. SNAGGING CLARIFICATION: It is unlawful to possess a fish taken for personal
use from fresh water that was not hooked inside the mouth or on the head. The head of a fish is defined as any portion forward of the rear margin of the gill plate. This rule
would not apply to forage fish taken with forage fish jigger gear.

Kind of got quiet didn't we... :p
Salmongigger OUT!!!

Salmongigger you don't have enough posts for anyone to give a second thought to. I just went back and looked at all your posts thus far and I'm not impressed. Pipe down for a bit and maybe everyone won't right you off. Otherwise you will probably have to come back with a new moniker. I've seen several people shunned for just what you've been doing if you don't believe me. Yeah that's right I've been around this block a couple times.

GLOWBALL OUT!!!!!!!

ya, mr gigger, wish you were out and stayed out!!!!

I hate this topic, but I must continue to clarify this issue for both myself and the people who are starting out with river fishing.
I beg the old timers and the experienced fisherman to join in to come up with the definition and put a lid on issue once and for all.

I will retain the mud slinging and the name calling because I feel that it is getting very serious now.
Why?
Because we have enough regulations to play with already.

Here are the facts:

1. 2003/2004 Pamplet Edition Fishing In Washington, page 16 states the definition of Snagging as "Attempting to take fish with a hook and line in such a way that the fish does not voluntarily take the hook(s) in its mouth.

2. 2003/2004 Pamplet Edition Fishing In Washington, page 20, paragraph 6 under the column, Tackle states "Where use of bait is prohibited, or where lures or flies are used voluntarily, game fish may be caught and released untile the daily limit is retained. If any fish has swallowed the hook or is hooked in the gill, eye, or tongue, it should be kept if legal to do so.

3. River -Special Rules where applicable.

OK, let us analyze each one of those two definitions above.

I will start with my definition.

1. Snagging - I wont waste your time with this one so I will use the Skokomish tribal fisherman as an example. This to me is snagging because the fish are visible and the attempt to hook them in any region of their body is obvious.
This also apply if a fisherman who repeatedly sets the hook hoping to catch a fish anywhere on its body; however it is also very ambiguous to find this act unlawful because it is also difficult to dictate what this fisherman's true intention. He might of feel multiple bites.
So it boils down to his reaction after he captures the fish.
If he lets the fish go, then it is legal.
If he keeps this fish which had been hooked other than the mouth, eye, or gills, then it is illegal.

2. To me, "In the mouth" means in the mouth. There is no definition for the hook penetrating from the outside region or the inside region of the mouth. But we can assume that it can be both taking for granted that the eye, tongue, and the gills are also in the same sentence of being legal.

Tell you the truth, I do not see the word "Flossing" anywhere in the book.
I don't even know how to prove if a fish is intentionally biting the bait/lure without actually seeing it in action.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

We all have our preferences in this sport.
Some of us are strictly bait fisherman, some are heavy metals, some are plugs, some are fly fisherman, some are corkies + yarn, some are drifters, and some are plunkers.
If we can't come to a concensus on this minor definition of "Snagging", how are we going to fight for more important issues.

Thanks

Grumpyr and Iron Head.

Read WAC 220-56-215 .

Unlawful possession of snagged salmon.
It shall be unlawful to possess salmon taken for personal use from freshwater areas that were not hooked inside the mouth or on the head.

Due to some oversight the preceeding law regulating posession of fresh water hooked salmon was not included in the pamphlet.

It should have been in there and even though it was not it is still the law.

I have no doubt he was flossing, but I just want to say that fish do bite with no visability.
If you remind me next season before oct 31st I will show you just after a certain river floods. I slayed em on jigs while everybody else was turning around and going home. I dont know how they were finding it but I caught several fish and many followed it right to my feet at the bank. Lateral line maybe? I was using no scent.