Does anyone have a crystal ball to say whether the Cowlitz will be running slower by Friday? It just topped 10000, but they can bring it down really fast if they want to.

Since it's all about money I wouldn't count on the utility cutting back too much on the generating during these colder snaps. If they have a little extra power they just sell it anyway. With the forecast for colder weather I would look for the flow to remain near it's current level. Just my 2 cents

My crystal ball says NO!!!!

More rain and colder temps coming up again this week means more money for Tacoma Power!


Up is more likely then down this week!

Cowlitzfisherman

My Crytall Ball says " the City of Tacoma will be cranking out the water for more $$$$$, and will not be thinking one iota about the fishing or fisherman."
I fished B/C on 11-20 @ about 9200 and it sucked, the vis is about a foot and has a lot of greenish suspended glacial type particles.
So much for the Turkey Day Opener.

At this point, wouldn't it be better for fishing if Tacoma keeps the river high, and gets rid of the turbid water so that Mayfield becomes clear? Then subsequent releases will be clearer for fishing, however high the volume is. Although winter flows on the Cow are usually too high for fly fishing, so I may not get down there until spring.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Salmo

The bigger question here is what the hell happen to Riffe Lake to make the water turn this glacier colored? Why aren't the state and federal fishery agency's asking Tacoma, BPA and WDOE what the heck is going on here?

This condition has been going on here for over 2 weeks! I can not ever remember the water starting out with this kind of color (glacier white) at this time in the past 18 years. Usually it's the Tilton that blows out the Cowlitz, and the water color becomes brownish instead of this chalky white color that we are now seeing.

I heard a "rumor" that makes a lot of sense now! I heard that this chalky water color was coming from Cowlitz Fall Dam, because they had a total draw down of the reservoir so that they could work on the slouch gates that got stuck during the last year's winter storms. I was told that BPA was allowed to take all of the silt that had built up behind the coffer dams and in front of the turbines I HEARD that they were allowed to dump all that silt right back over the other side of the Dam.

Once they started to generate power again, the water pushed the silt right down river into Riffe Lake. One would think that such an action would violate the Clean Water Act, and that our state and federal fishery agencies and WDOE would be all over BPA for dumping that silt back into Riffle Lake, especially since both listed steelhead and chinook are present in Riffle Lake.

Since NMFS is currently in formal consultation with BPA concerning Cowlitz Falls, and if this is true, why in the devil would the NMFS or WDOE, WDFW allow the BPA to dump such huge amounts of condensed silt right back into the Cowlitz? Can you make a few phone calls and tell us what has happen and who or what has caused this condition? Why on earth would the WDOE allow this to occur…if indeed this rumor is true!

For years now, the Cowlitz has had higher then acceptable levels of arsenic, and has violated the federal acceptable standards and allowances of arsenic in the Cowlitz. Arsenic levels even failed to meet the federal standards during the relicensing of Tacoma project. There was even testimony at the 401 Pollution Control Hearing Board by WDOE staff that the high levels of arsenic were most likely caused by, and were coming from the glacier melt off above Cowlitz Falls Dam. The WDOE specialist said that it happens in most all rivers that are feed by glacier melt. So why would WDOE allow any such massive disturbances, or clearing out of these "settled silts" to be dumped right back into the Cowlitz, knowing full well, that it would be flushed down stream into the reservoir?


I know that this isn't part of your job, but can you tell us what's going on with this problem?

I know, we should not worry about stuff like this because the Fishery Technical Committee (FTC) that was developed in the Cowlitz Settlement Agreement will make sure to take care of such problems as this. . . . . . . right?

Cowlitzfisherman

CFM,

I hadn't heard that, but can't say that I'm surprised. Cowlitz Falls was emptied back in September for maintenance work, and they may have sluiced previously settled glacial silt into Riffe. However, Riffe is normally where upper Cowlitz silt has ended up for 40 years, so that isn't new. The recent flood must have stirred it up - glacial silt goes into suspension easily and then stays for a long time, so that's what Mossyrock must be discharging, and then Mayfield.

Since glacial silt is naturally occurring, and the arsenic is naturally occurring, DOE could ony require the utilities to control the release if it was somehow controllable. DOE and utilities in general in the midst of a spitting contest over what and when water quality is under utility control and when it isn't. Consequently, I wouldn't expect any agency action to be forthcoming. You know how hard it is to get action when there is a bonafide violation. If the violation is questionable, then enforcement action is extremely remote.

If Riffe is full of this material, then the Cowlitz could stay colored up for 1 1/2 months to 2 months based on what happened two years ago, I think. If so, I'll be fishing elsewhere for more than one reason.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

I was hopeing that it would fish by friday. If anyone happens to fish it this week id really appreciate a report. thanks in advance.


shoemaker

shoemaker

The Cowlitz WILL NOT CLEAR UP THIS WEEK!!!!....nor the next one either!

There is less then a foot and a half of visibility! Like Salmo said…it will take weeks, if not months to clear!

So you can figure out what your success rate may be on the Cowlitz!

I hope this will help you and others that do not know "the game" in deciding where you may want to go fishing this week! If I was you, I would head up to Lake Scanewa to fish for lots of Coho…that's where most of the Cowlitz guides are now taking their clients to catch lots of coho.

Good Luck

Cowlitzfisherman

If a foot and a half of visibility scares off the hoards bring it on yahoo! we can still floss em cant we?

Damn where is the Jester Icon when you need one!

CF,
I heard the same thing about Cowlitz Falls, however I think a small to medium percentage of the Glacial coloring might be coming from Scanewa Lake, I say this because I fished it a week and a half ago the vis and color was close to that of the Cow. I think the combo of the Lake and Dam work have us waiting quite a while for the water to clear!

I have been to scanewa three times this year for coho . First two times it was so colored up their were no fish to had. The third time was starting to clear and fish were caught. I was going to fish it again then we had all that rain. I am going to wait awhile and see if it clears at all.

8920 at 14:00. Is someone from Tacoma Power and Light watching this thread?

I drove to Portland Yesterday and Checked all the rivers between Seattle and Portland. Everything was on the way up and colored. I fished the Kalama which was fishable but colored up in the 3 hours I fished. I Checked both forks of the Lewis and the Kalama looked better.

7,730 at 16:00. This is becoming interesting.

where is the usual thanksgiving zoo going to be this friday?????

might have to try a little plunking at blue creek

Well it's flat lineing at 6350 cfs, which is awsome, the real question know would be the clarity, if it cleared up a little it could be good fishing.

RiverLiver

The only problem with them lowering the water now means it's going to take that much more longer for all the dirty water to clear out of Riffle Lake.

Cowlitzfisherman

It never ceases to amaze me what some agency's, big businesses,government (etc) can get away with. If anybody else were to cause a different condition in a stream or river (didn't get rock on his driveway in time after grading it before rains or some other scenario) they'd be all over ya like stink on [Bleeeeep!].Seems to me that if this was caused by silt being removed and dumped back in on the down stream side of a dam that it could of just as easily been loaded in a truck and hauled elsewhere. (though I don't know what process they used to move it) It really sucks that the Cowlitz is considered a tool to create power by some and not a river like all of us on this board see it.

CFM I've been told that over time high arsenic levels will cause the fish to mutate into ones that look like my avatar

CF, you are absolutely correct. Another problem with the suspended particles is that the Disolved Oxygen levels are much lower than they should be thus creating a high stress enviroment for the fish.

Stlhdfishn / RiverLiver

You are so right!

People who work for the WDOE should be ashamed of themselves (especially the AG's attorney and his staff who supported Tacoma at the Pollution Control Board Hearings appeal of Tacoma's 401 permit) for how they have jumped into bed with the huge utilities such as Tacoma Power. Even though it appears that Tacoma did not have much to do with this event; they (Tacoma) have chosen not to go against other Hydro power owners like the BPA and the Lewis County PUD and speak out.

During the Pollution Control Board Hearings (PCHB) appeal over WDOE issuing Tacoma a new 401 permit, the Friends of Cowlitz, CPR-Fish, and the Cowlitz Tribe (Appellants) challenged WDOE for issuing a faulty 401 permit to Tacoma. Tacoma was in violating of state standards for Total Dissolved Gas (TDG) at their projects, and yet WDOE went ahead and issued them there new 401 Permit without making Tacoma correct the problem at their dams. It was one of the main issues that the appellants (us) had raised in our complaint and appeal to overturn Ecologies issuance of the 401 Permit.

WDOE knew that they were caught, and knew that they would loose this issue that was before PCHB. So both WDOE and Tacoma Power had to cover their butts before the board made its ruling against them and overturned the issuance of the 401 Permit. Both Tacoma and WDOE were basically against the people, and attempted to cover both of their butts!

Two days before the PCHB hearing, WDOE issued and order finding that Tacoma was in violation of state standards on TDG. The order was so well written and strongly worded that it would force Tacoma into coming into compliance. The order, as written, made our complaint about TDG issue to become a "moot issue". The way that the order was written, it made it mandatory for Tacoma "to take actions" to achieve compliance and to come into full compliance by June 14, 2007.

Little did anyone know (including the PCHB) that both WDOE and Tacoma were rewriting an amended order while we were in the trial. Basically WDOE allowed TACOMA to rewrite its own order and gutted the original order until it was next to being worthless!

As just one quick and sickening example of how Tacoma and WDOE jumped into bed together, 2 moths after the PCHB trail, (August 20, 2002) WDOE issued an amended order which changed the meaning and power of the order which originally read;

"
1. Mossyrock and Mayfield Dams have exceeded and are reasonably anticipated to violate State of Washington water quality standards during periodic high flow events for total dissolved gas as documented by monitoring and modeling conducted by and for Tacoma Power in connection with the relicensing of the Cowlitz project.

For these reasons, and in accordance with RCW 90.48, it is ordered that Tacoma Power take the following actions to achieve compliance no later than June 14, 2007 with standards for total dissolved gas. These actions are required at the locations known as the Mayfield Dam and Mossyrock Dam.

The new amended order now has been gutted to say; … "For these reasons, and in accordance with RCW 90.48, it is ordered that Tacoma Power take the following actions to ["SEEK TO"] achieve compliance no later than June 14, 2007 with standards for total dissolved gas.

Legally, it lets Tacoma off the hook, and it doesn’t force Tacoma to come into compliance; instead, all it does is to make Tacoma look for new ways to correct there violations of TGD. The entire amended order has been changed, and they never even notified the PCHB or the Appellants in a timely mater so that the order could be appealed! They are both a bunch of RAT's…who are infected with the plague!!!

Now we are forced into appealing WDOE/ Tacoma's new revised order again and they are saying that we can't do it because we didn't file our appeal within the 30 day time period after it was issue! WDOE is no friend to the fish on the Cowlitz and there record during the PCHB last year proves so!

The Cowlitz Fall Project was allowed to get its 401 Permit by default, and is not even required to monitor for TDG from its project! And you can thank WDOE for that one too!

And some people on our board wonder why I criticize our state agencies!!


Cowlitzfisherman

lets look at theis from an opportunists perspective. the water is up, but on the drop. the water is a little colored up. this causes two things. #1 the fish are not spooked, this will cause them to be a lot less spooked or stirred up. they will be prone to lay behind rocks on the edges instead of straight up the middle. I know a lot of you probably like straight up the middle ( you loose a lot less gear, less bank maggot action), but as far a fish catchin action goes fish the edges. also the fish won't be as tight to the rocks as when clear, keep that in mind. #2 silt in the water makes for low oxygen!!! from an anglers perspective this is a good thing if it is caused by silt and not warm water (warm water makes the fish slow, not moving). silty low oxygen makes the fish breath two, three four times as much to get ample oxygen. not that i need to say it but this makes for ideal flossing so put your eggs up until the water clears and break out the 2 ouncers and the yarn flies because the released 680000 smolts in 2002 and 180000 prospective three salts in 2001

buzzboat, you are right from an opportunists perspective, this means it's time to grab a 6 pack of beer and watch fighting for fish at B/C.
I know the Cow well enough to have all of the holding water, rocks, stumps , trees (except for the ones that might have moved or came down with the current high water) so that’s not a problem. “I know a lot of you probably like straight up the middle ( you loose a lot less gear, less bank maggot action), but as far a fish catching action goes fish the edges.” FYI I fish the edges, seams 90% of the time and rarely down the middle, as far as loosing gear goes you have to loose it in the rocks, stumps etc. if you want to catch fish oh yes I said catch fish legally ~ not floss them.

RiverLiver

I hear you and agree!

Cowlitzfisherman