Why so few steelhead when the salmon are comming back strong?

All these new rules need amendments. They all say ALL fishing will be closed....NO NO NO
All SPORTS fishing is closed. Netting is ok because we all know that it is the most selective of all types of fishing. boy oh boy am I pi$$ed

Tom,
If you refer to your regs the sky above sultan is closing the end of Feb. That is a new reg for this year and would be closing whether or not the lower river closed.

A friend of mine just told me about catching 5 steelhead just above ice Harbor Dam on the Snake river. These were hatchery fish raised via the strong federal hatchery system they have in place over there. I think the WDFW wants to get out of the fish raising business and instead be a bunch of managers and enforcers.

This is crap. They close the Green River early because of low hatchery returns (Of course the 81 nets 7 days a week had no part to play in that) and now they close the Skykomish which had great hatchery returns. Something doesn't smell right.

They closed the Skykomish due to the prediction of a very poor return of wild fish. This is the 3rd straight year it has been closed early and this closure was expected.

And do not worry, the Indian netting took very few if any wild fish out of the Snohomish this winter.

"Reason for action: The forecast for Stillaguamish River wild winter steelhead returning this winter (2003/2004) is only 35 percent of the spawner escapement goal."

Makes me want to cry. 35%? That's it? 35%?
I'll be floating it this spring, just for the hell of it. I'll still be on the river, even though I can't fish it.

I believe someone posted that the tribes were pulling thier nets out of the Snohomish a few days ago , A friend caught a wild fish about 13lbs. in the Snoqualmie 3 weeks ago and I have heard of others being caught since then. I don't know how the dept. comes up with thier "predictions" on how many fish return wild or hatchery ? how dose someone come up with a figure of 909 fish "PREDICTED" to return. so far it seems to me that they have been wrong for the last 7-8yrs. in a row . Just curious but if you don't allow sport catch for 8years or more then just how long will it be till the runs build up to what they should be. One would think that maybe in another 20-30 years we will be able to fish ????

But they base their prediction of the wild run on the number of hatchery fish that return. I talked to a biologist on the Green River about the closure and he said that they use info for previous years redds but they put much more importantance on the hatchery return. I would assume that model holds true for other rivers as well. Now, they knew what the redd count was on the Sky 2 or 3 years ago. Not to mention the excelent hatchery return. With that knowledge, they set the season to close March 31. Not only did they get enough hatchery fish to restock the Sky, they got enough in combination with the Snoqualmie, to re-supplement 3 other rivers.What has changed to make them change their prediction?

I think these closures are a good thing, PROVIDING the Native people remove their nets as well.

If they do not, then the Fed. gov't/state/sportsfishermen have a very solid case for legal action to protect the species.

They close the Skagit up to the Dalles bridge...but don't most steelheaders fish above the bridge to Marblemount? Why not close that too?

I got this damned Steelheaditis bad...it has taken a very close third in life, preceeded only by my wife and food. I'll give it up if it means helping to save the resource..but by God the tribes will stop netting fish as well, if in fact they are actively netting steelhead!

Time to step-up whatever pressure we as sportfishermen can bring to bear.

Mike

The past years, the actual spawning escapement has jived with the WDFW's preseason forecast.

In this instance, I believe what they have to say, and am all for the river closures in the spring. 35% of escapement is a dismal number...we just need to let those fish be.

Remember, hatchery steelhead and wild steelhead do not exhibit the same life history traits...wild steelhead are also much more susceptible to many more factors then hatchery fish because their entire life is spent in the natural enviroment.

Do not worry Jacob, we arent getting screwed.

How do they measure escapement on native fish? They don't have a central point of return like hatchery fish, they don't arrive at the same time frame like hatchery fish, they can trickle in from now through June and spawn anywhere in the river they want. Are you going to tell me that WDFW is capable of finding even half the redds to make an accurate prediction?

Obviously something had to have changed since the time the regs were printed and now. Knowing what the run size would be from whatever the redd count was when they made their prediction, they set the season to close March 31. On top of that they had a great hatchery return and everything I've read on this board and others have stated without a doubt that native rish are more durable than hatchery fish due to "stronger genes".

I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just trying to get at the information that led the department to make this decision.

I've never heard of any hatchery returns being used to measure anything regarding wild runs...they're two different fish and while they both may ebb and flow with environmental conditions, the size of one is in no way a predictor of the size of the other.

Wild runs are indeed much more durable, but...

An excellent hatchery return of 3% of 300,000 smolts would produce 9,000 hatchery fish to harvest.

An excellent wild fish return of, say, 10 % of 20,000 smolts is only 2,000 fish.

They're more durable on a percentage of smolts that return as adults, not more durable on a purely numerical basis.

Fish on...

Todd

That's what I'd always believed too. But the information I got on the Green River was that they were closing the C&R fishery for wild fish because the hatchery return was so poor. It didn't make sense to me, still doesn't, but that's the response I got.

If you watch you will see guys floating the Green, Sno, and Sky doing red counts for the Nats even if its closed. The Green has been dismal compared to year previous for a while on Nats. I am all for closing it as long as the nets come out too. But they have in years past on emergency closures. Is the Broodstock program still going to operate with this closer.

Thanks,

Kevin

If I'm not mistaken these are the same exact closures as last year?