YUM YUM! Thanks for sharing!

Wait, I just have one question. This is intended to be part of the argument or anything but when I went springer fishing on the Duc/Quil with JD Love and Herzog, Bill told me springers were introduced on this system so every fish is really a hatchery fish? just wondering.

Looks like it's time to bust open a beer and fire
up the Q.
If it bright it's alright. Nice chromie!
Chrome

Smalma-

To anwer you question about these so called 'wild' steelhead.

Did man put them above the falls? I believe the answer is yes. Then at that point the population is not native it is naturalized. The one comment you said that really disturbs me is the steelhead are taking on the characteristics of the native rainbow trout. If that is true, then aren't these naturalized steelhead now a genetic pollutant that could destoy the local native trout population? Since these steelhead in question are no longer stocked or marked, why not just elminated them from the upper watershed and that will be that? They don't belong.

William

Inland-
I'm a little afraid to reply as the answer might be view as "the WDFW answer" which of course would not have any credibility with you.

However I give it a stab.

Yes, you are correct in that the the wild summer steelhead population is the result naturalization of hatchery fish. Since they have been produced by naturally spawning fish most would consider them to be wild but not native steelhead. However they would cover under the WSR regulations - it is not Native Steelhead release after all.

I could not agree more that those steelhead don't belong above Sunset - it was trout water (actually a quite good fishery). However in 1958 the State (Department of Fisheries) decided to open that water (as well as the South Fork Stillaguamish above Granite Falls) to anadromous production - that is salmon. There is roughly 100 miles of coho habitat above the falls. That portion of the watershed currently supports roughly 20% of the basin's coho and chinook escapements. The folks interested in salmon recovery, the tribes, and possibly several federal agencies have no interest excluding salmon from the area (it is sused both ESA listed chinook and bull trout - naturally colonized the area). It has been estimated that that area produces about 1/4 million coho smolts. With that competition is it better to attempt to management the game fish populations (trout etc) with an anadromous fish (steelhead) or a resident fish - a tough call.

By the way there are still good numbers of trout upstream of the majority of the anadromous fish use zones as well some large trout that have dropped down into the anadromus zone.

Tight lines
S malma

Smalma-
What is your opinion regarding the effect of anadramous fish being placed above Sunsey on the resident trout population?

I know there is great trout fishing to be had up there but then again, I can not compare it to prior the trucking.

Smalma,

Thank you taking a 'stab' at it. My beliefs towards credibility of management agencies is totally related to their function of harvest management and politics. Problem is, your employer has been in charge of this situation for 'several' decades now and look where we are? The results more than speak for themselves. A handful of rivers on the OP are now the "Least Depressed" in the state. And here we sit arguing politcs of a rule change that will do nothing measurable for another 7-10 years (If the rule is upheld). My best guess is that it would take at least 2 full generations of several year classes to be able to study the affects of getting more spawners on the beds. I only pray that when this rule comes up again, that the foot is firmly planted in the door, and it will be renewed for a legitimate length of time to really show the difference it can make. Either way I will pray every night for the next decade that the returning progeny from the next two seasons are the highest runs to hit the OP in nearly 50 years. That would pretty much prove the point.

Back to the point at hand:

"However they would cover under the WSR regulations - it is not Native Steelhead release after all." Simple to fix- Rule exception: all steelhead above sunset falls can be harvested.

But if I am understanding this correctly- the bull trout and salmon above the falls are native to the sky drainage, but not to that particular area. They have now colonized the habitat because of something man changed? Did WDFW build a fish ladder or are they lifted over the obstruction? Are the 'recently' established populations in the Sky totally dependant upon that area to survive cutting it off?

William

Inland -
And that is the rub - there can be no exceptions to the state wide moratorium!

The fish are trapped and hauled around a series of 3 impassable falls. Both the chinook and bull trout are included in the listed ESA/DPS for those speices.

Sparky -
While robust resident trout populations are often assocaited with salmon populations it is usually with pink, chum, and/or sockeye salmon. This fish return in large numbers bring lots of marine nutrients to the system as well as dislodging substantial numbers of eggs due to their mass spawning habits as supplying incredible numbers of fry in the spring. The salmon population above Sunset is dominated by coho (20 to 50,000 per year). This aren't typcially mass spawners. In addition will the pink, chum and sockeye leave the river shortly after hatching the coho and some of the chinook spend at least a year in the river (about 8% of the coho 2 years) rearing before leaving the system. These parr are direct competitors with the trout parr. In this case I would say that the trout population is limited by the salmon (coho) abundance.

Remember this reach of the river has been managed with selective gear restricitions and a 14 inch minimum size limit. Such management in a trout water would be expected to produce a decent biomass of trout.
While there are trout found in many of the runs and pools and some of them are pretty nice (14 to 20+ inches) they are nealry as abundant as I would expect.

Tight lines
S malma

Smalma,

Then I don't think there is much of a rub on the WSR. Don't allow the steelhead over the falls and there is no problem. They will cease to exist.

As for the extremely sticky situation that has been created by allowing listed native species to successfully adopt non-native habitat, I don't know. But that is just politics. The biological answer is pretty short and simple- don't allow them to access the river above the falls.

William

Inland -
Could not agree more the biological is simple - the difficulity is implementing the solution in the morass of political, economic, and social issues.

In this case many folks have a pretty high stake in keep putting anadromous fish above the falls - the steelhead fisheries want the steelhead, the salmon fisheries (tribal and non-tribal) want that extra 20% in run sizes (catches?), the folks abusing the habitat want the fish there so that it is easier to continue to abuse the habitats downstream and the politicians want the fish there because it keeps lots of people happy and doesn't cost much.

If things were so simple that all one needed to do was what was biologically the best life would be very simple for the fisheries managers. It sounds as if you have been around these wars long enough to know from first hand experience it is not that simple. If you wish for managers to successfully take on those issue I suggest that we look for people would are social, economic, and political miracle workers rather than biologists.

If the goal is to have the healthiet wild steelhead population as possible the biological approach is indeed simple. All that needs to be done is eliminate the hatchery program, set escapement objectives at a carrying capacity level for above average conditions, close all fishing (except maybe for those rare years of exceptional survival conditions). There done!

Of course such an approach levels a whole host of social, economic, and political issues unsatisfied.

Tight lines
S malma

k-kid alittle louder i dont think they heard you. first off nice fish looks tastey. second what k-kid said. third, what rivers are open for springers right now where i can take my new drift boat ,say on sunday?

Just in case some of you are still thinking about wild springers, I'll just pass on this little illustration for you.




Nice hatchery Jerry, Bob! Go get 'em!

I thought the same thing Aunty

Parker's right on:) Bruce, the answer to your question was right there the entire time.

Frankly, I see it as another example that those that don't know much about these fisheries should perhaps step aside when it comes to saying what is best for them.

'Duc springers have been clipped like this for some time.

There is a very small percentage that spawns in the wild ... but the only true wild fish we have here (Quill) for a king run before the fall are the summer fish that return to the Quillayute system in very small numbers.