I still can not find the dead horse so here begins another thread dedicated to Wild Steelhead.

My goal is create another discussion that does not focus solely on WSR and the legality of how it was passed...not because I am trying to avoid the subject but because I think there are many other issues to discuss that are just as important, if not, more important to the health of wild steelhead.

Smalma posted this on The Flyfishing Forum a few months back and I think it would be great to present it to this group as well (I believe he did in fact present them to this board but that was a couple years ago)....

Here is some steelhead guidelines that posted on another site a couple of years ago. I believe that they still are valid and do an adequate job of providing diverse recreational opportunity while address manay of our concerns about current status of the wild resources and some of the hatchery and harvest factors that may be afftect those populations.

Warning - This represents my personal beliefs and clearly reflects my personal biases.

Wild steelhead escapement levels- -

Use MSH as the reference point for management with exploitation rate management for runs above MSH. The exploitation rate would be designed to achieve escapements that would range from a low of MSH to a high of carry capacity. Average escapement would be expected to be between MSH and carrying capacity. Exploitation rates might be in the 10 to 20% range; possibly higher on more productive systems.

For populations expected to return at or below MSH reference point - or in those areas without an established MSH reference point.

1) Wild steelhead release during the period that hatchery steelhead are abundant.
2) If there are no hatchery fish or after the date that the majority of hatchery fish are no longer available (spawn outs not counted) river closed to all fishing.

For population expected to return above MSH reference point-

1) Retention of wild winter steelhead allowed for all or part of the period December through Febraury, (length depending on the exploitation rate).
2) Upper half of basins closed to wild fish retention.
3) State-wide wild fish limit of 1 per year.
4) Traditional spring catch and release season allowed.
5) To fish in the spring (March, April) the angler must have not used his or her wild steelhead punch.

Steelhead hatchery program

1) Mark all fish.
2) Hatchery programs to be designed to provide fish for harvest; no supplementation programs.
3) Plant only smolts and only in May.
4) Number of smolts to be planted limited so that the spawning over-lap (fish spawning at the same time and place) between hatchery and wild steelhead be limited to less than 1%. This will be influenced by spawning times, wild fish abundance, and the harvest rate on the hatchery fish.
5) Limit smolt plants to main stem areas with good angler access.
6) Significant portion of the basin (25%) not planted with hatchery fish.

Additional regulations -

1) During open seasons in the March to November period selective gear rules (artifical lures, single barbless hooks and no bait) in effect.
2) During the March to November period catch and release for all trout and steelhead except for marked hatchery fish.

Tight lines
S malma

Smalma,

These ideas would be a lot more credible if you hadn't hired a wet behind the ears kid to post them.

Should we allow any harvest of self sustaining introduced wild steelhead stocks where no native stocks are present and never have been present?

Consider the Green River where the summer run fish were introduced specifically for harvest opportunity and where they are reproducing at a rate beyond what is needed to sustain the wild stock.

Any thoughts?

sounds great to the elite fly fishers, but just try selling that idea to the masses...it will never happen

I would say that some of the prima donnas on this site should stop fishing in rivers where steelhead stocks are in such dramatic decline as their "science" illustrates or "proves" . Stop bashing everyone else and walk the walk. Stop trying to pretend that the nets are not a factor in the decline. Stop trying to deny that habitat and climate and water quality and quantity are not the real problem. Stop calling people who disagree with you "Neandrathals" or "idiots" or whatever really creative slam you come up with next. By acting as you are you make those who call you "elitists" seem more accurate all the time. Face it, you don't win support for your "cause" by calling people names. And you don't carry more weight in this argument just because you are a doctor or a lawyer or an indian chief.

Here is another example of the bully on the playground mentality being pushed on this BB:

courtesy of Superfly:


"How stupid are you and the rest of those bonking fools out there, don't you guys get it ?
That when you are killing the wild fish you are just destroying the future of the river, man you guys are so ****ed !!!!!"

I think that you are on the right track here. We need to focus on all 4 H's, not just the harvest element. Unfortunately, with the limited $$ for WDFW, I don't think that they will be adopting models that would need to be varied for each watershed(which of course is the logical thing to do).

PS For the first time in my life, I am one of the elite!! Just because I fish with a fly! How cool! Are there any benefits that go along with this label?

WFL ... Superfly has never been known for his tact , but I wouldn't apply your "playground mentality" to everyone here.

MM ... don't think it's not possible. It's a common management strategy in many steelhead fisheries around the world, and it has some pretty good support in our area from a number of people ... including a number of guides that are fence-sitters on the moratorium itself.

In several instances, people have asked for alternate ideas to help protect these stocks. As more and more rivers face poorer runs and traffic shifts elsewhere, in almost all certainty, it's only a matter of time before the stock will not be able to cope with the pressure of the status quo. No bait, barbs will reduce angler effectiveness ... that's one way of moving away from that status quo. If you're not in favir of WSR or a bait / barb ban, please give some suggestions on how to decrease impact on the fishery on the sports end.

I've got an idea, since most sports harvest during the week occurs on a week-end (about 2/3 are killed on week-ends, 1/3 released ... vice-versa during the week). How 'bout we close the rivers totally on the week-ends?

What? And let you have all that time off?


Mike

closing on the weekends falls in line with the moratorium strategy which is to eliminate a substantial amount of the "crackers" on the river (Neandrathals) and leave it for the "purists"....(smart people)

Exactly!!

"WFL ... Superfly has never been known for his tact"

Some people have been axed for such abrasive attitudes...

I disagree. There are many more unemployed "Neanderthals" able to fish during the week than there are "Purists".

Remember, the "Purist/Elitist" has the Country Club membership, personal trainer for the trophy wife, private chef, outrageous Alimony, and Mercedes payments to make, and therefore must work at least 5 days a week.

I think if you are allowed to keep one it should be on the third thursday of the month unless it's a new moon. If it's a new moon on that thursday then add six days and subtract two to calculate the allowable harvest day of that particular month. No hooks can be used on this day. No wading in the water or scraping bottom with a boat is allowed at any time. Cameras on your person or within control of your person are prohibited. Heavy weight rods and 30+ pound test line only to reduce stress mortality. Special emergency regulations will be posted at noon of the effective day and apply retroactively from sun up that morning.
I'm sure I will think of more. The point I am trying to make is that if things are getting this bad, and they are, then fishing should be closed down completely. Regulations and the "one bad apple spoils the bunch" are getting way out of hand and masking the true problems. When ESA was looming if we had closed fishing for five or so years I think our situation would be greatly improved at this point in time. Although we'd still have the same habitat and netting issues.

Yes Bruce ... but some people throw a barb here and there, others do it to no end even after formal warnings. There's a diff

Still waiting!

The day is coming where these rivers will be no different than most PS streams .. we've seen the closures on the Hoh & Queets already in recent years.

So, if not C&R, let's hear plausible ideas of how we're going to reduce the sports impact?

Let's also hear how we will ask the Indians to reduce their netting schedules for the good of the fish when it looks as if the sporties just want more to harvest?

Bob,

You may not like this, but a catch & kill season could easily be set up that has similar impacts to a CNR season. This sort of CNK season would bear little resemblence to the current regs.

Such a CNK season would necessarily be shorter than a CNR season, but it could be set up to have the same impacts.

This is very plausible and if set up properly, equivalent for the fish (maybe better-less stress on the surviving fish).

Unfortunately such a season would not be so good for business.

Don't forget the boat payment and the cute young thing you keep on the side.

Close fishing when there are only wild steelhead to target in rivers where they are in decline (all user groups). I keep saying this, but its obviously not the answer people want to hear. If there are acceptable numbers of wild fish, allow fishing. Where there are good numbers of wild fish, allow a limited harvest.

Okay GD let's hear some details and some questions:

size restrictions?

bucks only to protect repeat hens?

early season / mid-season / late season?

spread out over entire river, or do we only harvest from one small area?

what do you tell / how to sell to local businesses that will see a 90% reduction in the length of the season?

The WSR and WSC advocates on here hardly consider the impact to business Bob. Once business impacts come into the equation we have got a whole new argument. How much business impact is one wild fish worth>? for example. If we change fishing regulations that will put alot of people out of business do we have any responsibility to them? If it is truly only the fish that count then why don't we simply stop all fishing of every kind including the nets and sit back and see if all the runs rebound in 5 years.? Ohhhhh you want a compromise proposal? Wellllll then that is a different story. We can't close fishing because it is a multi-billion dollar industry in this state. We have to provide opportunity for both sport and commercial harvest by legislative mandate and federal court rulings.....on and on it goes.