He is a fine man that president! He even loves to fish. Need to invite him for a float trip on the river of his choice! Too bad you little loser liberals! hehehehe

Hey Sky, the timber industry, large corporations and those making more than a million dollars a year totally agree with you!! The salmon and steelhead and middle income taxpayer on the other hand took a huge hit yesterday.

RM

Bush is the worst thing that could've happened to sporting in our state, and every other state that depends on forests and fisheries. I'm disgusted! Has anybody noticed the exponential increase in logging recently? I've seen, just in the last few months, massive clearcutting of our "national forest" lands. Don't know for sure the details, but it's happening. Don't expect the Bush administration to protect our delicate forests and fisheries, despite what he told you four years ago.

yeap it's called a recovering economy

Well I'm pretty much middle income, and with Bush as president I've seen an increase of almost 15% in my annual income, and I dont work for a oil company, or logging company. So I happy with Bush.

Very mature! :rolleyes:

Are you even old enough to vote?

Timber is a renewable resource. So are the fish. I find it hard to believe that we'd have gotten any more face time with the Kerry camp regarding management of our renewable resources than we will/have with Bush, or any other previous president.

Does that really help when gas and everything else gets more expensive too?

Keep in mind that when GW took office gasoline was about a dollar a gallon, it's more than 2.00 now. For my full size chevy truck that works out to be an additional 900 dollars per year. Also consider the fact that I haven't made a dollar on my 401k in three years. Healthcare has increased at a rate 4 times average income...your not making any more money now.

Yes the forest is a renewable resource but remember our forests are owned by all of us...they are "public lands". Because of this these areas are managed for "multiple use", harvest, fishing, camping, sight-seeing, etc. GW upon taking office appointed a timber lobbyist as head of the United States Forest Service...this certainly doesn't demonstrate the publics interest for "multiple use". Oh by the way...the timber industry just happens to provide millions to GW in campaign contributions, imagine that. Fish and wildlife lost in a big way.

RM

whoooo hoo BUSH wins....

Complaining about gas prices really doesn't work for me. How much have gas prices really gone up over the years? If gas had kept pace with inflation over the last 30-50 years nobody would even be able to afford to drive. Gas prices were going to take a jump up sooner or later... it finaly happened.

Well my question is:

Is Patty Murray a dude ???

If ya have to ask you don't really want to know!

The recession was on its way before Bush took office. Clinton holds more responsibility for 911 than Bush does, and the fact that Clinton creted so many low paying jobs did little to actually help the economy.

If you see how so many large companies were multiple times overvalued, the "correction" in the market was expected.

Sooner or later things must balance out...Clinton got them out-of-whack,a nd Bush is trying to get things back on track to be stable.

The REAL test of Bush's financial policies will come during this term, as the things he put into effect in the last 4 years will soon begin to show the differences they should make. If they do, great, if they don't...well...let's just hope they do help.

Most all of you folks get a paycheck every week or two, but as a Ind. Sales Rep. I don't get paid unless a purchase is made. The products I represent apply to a very narrow market in the electronics industy...and none of them are low cost. I would LOVE to see major companies start loosening the purse-strings on capital purchases...believe me, I could breath easier if they did!

As to Bush's environmental policies...I don't like them either. He stinks in that Dept., BUT, sad to say, there is more to running the most powerful office in the world than fish and trees.

Of the 2 choices, Bush was far and away the best choice. IMO all politicians are crooks, so it is a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils in any event.

My 2 cents worth...(and that is the same value as any of our opinions holds)

Mike

I agree that "management" is the key to the success of our Multi-use resources, or public assetts. I certainly don't have the knowledge to develop the appropriate course of "action" in mangement. I do support the use of those assetts for profit. Economies historically supported by the timber industry need to be sustained. How much revenue does sight seeing generate?
Perhaps the brakes were not put on the declining economy quick enough.... but I'm not comfortable blaming the president for a decline in economic conditions that was bound to happen following such a robust economy the years before. That's like trying to make gold a rotten egg.

Our 401k's not performing recently is a direct result of overperformance in the previous decade.... and we weren't complaining then. How could any government sustain the growth that we had seen?

The full size truck argument is less than valid in my opinion... My Nissan pulls my driftboat just fine... Hell I could tow it with a car if I needed to, I drive a truck by choice... and pay the gas bill by choice. I would venture most of us drive our 3/4 ton Dually Trucks and Excursion SUV's by choice... not out of neccesity. Mini Vans carry as many kids as Expeditions do... Obviously, some of you are towing 5th wheels, campers, sleds, and salt boats.... but I have feeling there are a few guys out there with $600 truck payments and $900 gas bills that had a choice.

Did you really need to start ANOTHER thread implying that the only people that voted for Kerry are bleeding heart liberals? The blatant arrogance, stupidity, and tunnel vision that gets flaunted here sometimes is beyond belief.

I know I'm not the only middle of the road Bush hater here but it always seems like the guys that are staunch Bush supporters assume that anyone that would DARE vote for a demo is either a communist or a moron.

Some of us with priorities like the environment and jobs (not to mention coming clean when he screws up) simply don't see him as much of a champion.

I am just interested in seeing how much more Bush is going to F-up the country now. He did a great job in persuading the country Kerry was an idiot but truly he is the bigger idiot

Now dats funny--- --Like chill out Gingas Kahn ya aint drafting my kid cause you want wars that will never end.
____________________________

Time to go fishing

Funny, looking at the map Washington state was BLUE... any righties want to explain that

Congrats to bush and his voters. So now when I retire and you retire there will be no Medicare and no Social Security. Cant blame bush when that happens you can only blame yourselves for voting for him.

I am as happy with Bush as I would be happy holding that chromer GV has in his post. I am most concerned for our troops and their families who have to receive the brunt of the re-election of satan. -

Oh no Stlhd Dreaming, that was Clinton's fault remember? All the financial woes we are seeing are the result of Clinton despite the fact that GW has been in office for four years now. Four more years and it will still be Clinton's fault.

As far as presidential responsibilities being more than "fish and trees" I would agree. It's also about economy, record deficit under Bush, and jobs...fewer jobs created under Bush than any other president, and honesty...no weapons of mass destruction. Oh and lets not forget Cheney, giving Haliburton his former company the contract for Iraq and then overcharging Americans millions of dollars for goods and services.

RM

Alot of peoples complaints were put into motion prior to Bush taking office. Were you complaining when those actual choices were made, or just now when you see the results of previous parties. My health care hasnt went up one cent, and I remember in 1999 paying $1.49 for gas, which was prior to Bush. Your social security was jeopardy long before G.W took office, but you probably failed to speak up then, and just do it now since everyone else is.

Don't take my word for it GV:

NEW YORK - A rising number of Americans say health care is the most critical issue facing America today, and many are having trouble covering the costs.

A survey released Thursday by the nonprofit Employee Benefit Research Institute in Washington, D.C., found that 22 percent of those surveyed ranked health care the nation's No. 1 problem, ahead of terrorism, the economy, the war in Iraq (news - web sites), education, the budget deficit and taxes. Last year, health care ranked behind the economy as the top problem, and in 2002 it was second to terrorism, the study showed.

Almost two-thirds of those surveyed said the dollar amount they contribute toward their health insurance premium has increased in the past year, while about half say the amount they pay for prescription drugs and doctor visits have risen. In addition, more than four in 10 said their health insurance deductible — out of pocket spending before insurance kicks in — has risen in the past year.

Here's the link:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041029/ap_on_he_me/health_confidence_2

I think this board is representative of the nation and how ignorance and arrogance of the issues can lead to election and re-election of the anti-christ. Look at the red states and you'll see the staunch Bush supporters who claim moral values (hypocrisy)and "self reliance" while ignoring the fact that they are the major feeders at the puplic trough (subsities = welfare). Now all those who voted for GW get in line at the recruiting office so the rest of us won't need to worry about a draft. the timber industry a renewable resource? Cut down a 500 year old tree and plant a sprig. Yeah that's renewable. Or better yet, take private timber land and turn it into massive housing developments and then cry for the need to cut down the national forests. Yeah renewable. Or how about take the very best timber and send it to Japan but tell America they need their forests logged if they want lumber for housing. Yup. Or the one I really like is the need to clearcut to prevent the trees from burning. Amazing.

Well then GV I guess you just have a good company providing you good health care. I stressed the fact that medicare is going away and Social security going privatized is a joke. I really didnt care about the president til my mother was murdered and my sisters receive Medicare and Social Security and now that Bush has stated he wants to do away with both where does that leave my sisters. that is what has really rumpled my feathers you have to see it form my stand point I hope you do because that is going to hurt my family if that is doen.

I also asked some of my Navy personnel why they voted for Bush they said Pay Raises is why they voted for him. I asked them if that was the only reason a lot of them said yes that was the only reason they voted for him. When I asked the people that said no why they voted for him they couldnt tell me any of the issues he was fighting for they just told me they didnt like Kerry because of his military background but we wouldnt of known about his military background unless Bush didnt exploit it. You didnt here much about Bushes UA from the National Guard to much because he put a shush on that just like How the head of the FCC Colon Powells son said no to Mike Meyers program the night before election becauseit may hurt bush but it was alright for the republican party to put the program on the TV about Kerries vietnam experience.

In my mind kerry is more of a hero than Bush because he actually went over there and did a job he might of come back and protested but didnt about 75% of the vietnams veterans come back and protest it. Bush he went UA during wartime but last time I looked at the UCMJ that was punishable by death during wartime. Please somebody comment on that I want to hear what people have to say about that one !!!!!!!!!!!

Well thanks for the link Riverman, but if you go back and read what I typed, I said "my health care hasnt gone up" , But once again this health care crisis didnt arise just in the last 4 years, with Bush it has been in the making since Clinton took over.

I know, "it's Clinton's fault".

Well Clinton should bare some of the blame, but the president can not just in act his plan, it has to go through the senate and house, so all the congressman, and senators should bare some of the burden, or blame.

"But once again this health care crisis didnt arise just in the last 4 years, with Bush it has been in the making since Clinton took over."

Pure ignorance. If you do a search you will find that the Pharmaceuticals industry contrbutes vastly more $$ to republicans than to dem's and has for more than a decade. It's no secret why we are being gouged on health care with the Rep's in charge. in fact if you go down the list of major contributing industries to the Rep's you will find that the cost to Americans of all of those industries has dramatically risen under this regime. Go figure.

Couldnt of been said much better

"My health care hasnt went up one cent,"

Mine just went up 18%, and it's all paid by me because my job went to China a year ago. We're not all seeing the benefits of Bush's stellar leadership.

Mine went to India. An isolationist foreign policy while offshoring the jobs. Pretty weird.

A great guy who thinks hatchery and wild fish are the same. After this next 4 years they will have to invent new numbers for our national debt.

Stlhd:

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a major contributor to the cost of health care going up the cost of malpractice insurance? Didn't Pres Bush try to get that under control by limiting the amount that doctors could be sued for? If I remember correctly it was democrats like Patty Murrey, who are fat with campaign contributions from trial lawyers who blocked this proposal. To say that Pres Bush had a direct impact on the cost of health insurance is more than a little misleading. There are many factors that have played a part.

stlhd_dreaming

The President never said he wanted to totaly privatize social security. He said that he wanted to give people an option with a percentage of their social security. The liberals implying that the plan was to totaly privatize social security is simply a half truth designed to scare the public.

There were half truths told by both sides.

I was, and am very, very dissapointed!! We will pay now......boy are we going to pay, especially on the west coast Bush abandoned us during the the electrical shortage, and I would be willing to bet he could give a damn about the LEFT coast. With His policies on timber sales, religion, and having control of the senate.......look out!!!

I have the biggest problem with the religious aspects of this election, and how it will look to the Muslim world.......they will view this as the Chritian Crusades again, I can't blame them. I am not religious at all, and to think this president will "try" to enforce his beliefs through political lines really scares me. I in NO WAY want anyone to think I support those crazy arabs, but perception is half the battle to the rest of the world.

Can ANY Christians out there PLEASE explain the verse "Thou shall not kill" and yet republicans which I believe to be more apt to be religious support war, and killing if you voted for Bush this is what you supported......seems VERY HIPOCRITICAL???? I am seriously confused with people of religion???


Chumster

I was told by my Premera rep. that most of the costs were to cover increasing cost of prescriptions. It makes sense when you think about it since with the ridiculously high deductable privates opt for the only thing we use it for is copays and prescriptions.

Wouldn't want them to have to actually pay anything out, would we?

malpractice law suits.............

So to say if you have surgery and you have a scalpul accidently left inside you and it is found year or so later because you are in extreme pain. You should only be able to sue for what the government tells you can sue for. That is ridiculus there goes the Homey Hook ups again. Way to go Bush that is the first thing I heard of that and I think that is a bunch of BS

I think people just saw the president as more effective against terror and also wanted someone who is perceived as a firm leader. Kerry has alligned himself with the far left for most of his career and tried to convice everyone in the final days that he would be all things to all people. I'm gald the majority of people saw through that.

Health care? ok...Maybe the torte reform that Bush wants to initiate might be meaningful to lower health costs. Edwards made a good living from suing folks. But lets face it, as our population ages, we put a huge burden on health care anyway. It's gonna cost more...maybe we need a little governmental help to offset it.

Environment- I am definitely not a Bush supporter there.

I could go on...whatever, it's over and lets all remember that we're all americans and try to solve things together.

I am truly dissapointed looking at this from both sides, alot fo you are getting really nasty over this whole thing and why, nothing will change so why attack each other over it. There is a simple rule when I fish, NO POLITICS (except if we all pretty much know we agree) if not no mention. Religion, race issues, and abortion fall right behind those. Alot of people on this board don't know sh!t about the other people and how they are in real life but yet all manage to throw stones at people for no reason.
Next time you find yourself getting sucked into an argument on a BB, remeber this.. Agruing on the internet is like competing in the special olymipics, even if you win.... Your still a retard.

But it is fun though isnt it

Originally posted by willametteriveroutlaw:
Agruing on the internet is like competing in the special olymipics, even if you win.... Your still a retard.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


But it is fun though isnt it

What a sad state of affairs, reading thru these postings. Half truths everywhere, hatred coming out of every seam, inability to even look at the other side. For shame! And then this sad post about handicapped people. I grew up with a brother who is retarded because of an automobile accident, and this made me damn mad. Isn't it really time we work together to solve problems. No one person is ever going to contain everything we want out of any position we take in politics. We basically hire politicians (through our votes) to do the compromising. I know I dabbled in politics at one point in time in my life, but had to get out of it because I had to compromise my own personal beliefs too much. Again, the post about retards crossed the line in my book.

If I recall correctly, the Clintons promised to fix that for you.
And more recently, John Kerry ('I have a plan...') promised to provide health care to everyone, balance the budget and not raise taxes. :rolleyes:
Yup, that's not a hollow campaign promise that is completely impossible.
Who could swallow such a claim?
Bush (Stupid) was smart enough not to make such promises.
That's why he won.
I must admit, Bush undid alot of progress that was made over the last few years.
Federal deficit that will hurt to deal with.
Environmental policies that are unforgiveable.
Corporate allegiances that are borderline criminal.
Riverman and Mike B...
cudos for thoughtful and reasoned responses.
Every president has inherited their situation from their predecessor and this one has the next four years to prove his worth.
I just could not see Kerry being the answer.

Mine went away because of the spotted friggin owl. Thinking that one belongs to the tree huggin leftists. But hey I aint bitter I don't log no more but I can fish all the time now.

If you care about our fisheries reources then you can' possibly believe the next four years are going to be "better" for them with this same administration and a Congress even more inclined to do the administration's bidding than before.

There is no two ways about it folks, we are in for a long 4 years... I hope we can continue to restore our fish and I hope we can hold onto a steadily weakened Endangered Species Act.

One has to accept his role in the decline of the Salmon and mitigate that impact first before he can point the finger at someone else. By doing that he natually will take care of the governmental issues. I doubt most even have a clue as to their role in ecosystem or the cost for repairing the damage it does. But it sounds good here in the NW to say save the fish. .

Pacific NW salmon are not a national priority yet. Even in Olympia the issues surrounding our fish are not well known by the majority of the folks making the laws and rules that effect the fish. It is up to us to stop blaming the president for all our woes here and do something about them ourselves.

Start walking the talk and do something yourself.

Good point on the baby boomers AM. Time to move to Sweden or Minnesota for ya.
We have known for a lot longer than GB has been President that SS and Medicare were going to go broke so don't blame it on him. Mr. Clinton couldn't figure that one out either and you know it.

Seriously guys the bush addmin. has practically the WORST environmental record of any modern president. Also, Clinton created a surpplus, somthing bush destroyed as soon as he set foot in the white house. Clinton was also a Pimp, which ovsiously bush isn't. Anyway we need to quit b1tching about politics and start talking about fishing, this is a fishing board not a political one.

okay, enough already. I hardly see much positive out of this thread.