I would like everyone to know that the Tribes are still commercial crabbing. I talked to another fisherman on Wed. said that he was fishing out near Point-No-Fish and said that there were many pots in the water. He got so mad after seeing the pots that he decided that he should have some of the take concidering that the sportsman took in the shorts again so he pulled one pot and got his limit. It gets pretty bad that we have to resort to pulling tribal pots to get some crab. The sportsman got only got 17 percent of the crab allocation this year before the WDFW closed the season. I tired of the tribes running the show. The sportsman should at least get to crab for the rest of the year. Maybe if we continue to ask the WDFW about crabbing they might let us have a crabbing opener but don't hold your breath.

Don't worry I won't be pulling any of those heavy assed pots.....but does anyone know the penalty for pulling a tribal pot? I'm sure it's not small.

I see that there is still crabbing going on on Whidbey we drive off the base by the ocean and there is always crab pots out with 2 or 3 boats watching over them. I believe they may be tribal but not positive. Even if it isnt tribal arent the commercials crabbers supposed to be ceased all so. Please let me know because I saw that last week and it totally pissed me off about that

It's one thing to talk about one's fantasy of breaking the law to protest one's beliefs but actually breaking multiple laws (operating someone else's pots, theft of someone else's catch, illegal retention of crab, to name but a few) but to actually act on one's fantasy enters into the realm of obsession.

No matter what we believe, we must act lawfully. If everyone did what your friend did we would have a war out there. Despite what your friend believes, he is not "entitlled" to a limit of crab.

We may not think that the speed limit should be 50 mph on that back road and we may not like to be restricted to our side of the double yellow lines but to do act otherwise and break the law puts us all in danger.

Your friend and his actions are part of the problem, not the solution.

It's one thing to talk about one's fantasy of breaking the law to protest one's beliefs but actually breaking multiple laws (operating someone else's pots, theft of someone else's catch, illegal retention of crab, to name but a few) but to actually act on one's fantasy enters into the realm of obsession.

No matter what we believe, we must act lawfully. If everyone did what your friend did we would have a war out there. Despite what your friend believes, he is not "entitlled" to a limit of crab.

We may not think that the speed limit should be 50 mph on that back road and we may not like to be restricted to our side of the double yellow lines but to do act otherwise and break the law puts us all in danger.

Your friend and his actions are part of the problem, not the solution.

Actually, didn't he have his limit before he pulled the pots considering that crabbing for us is closed? He's probably the same ***hole that kept pulling my pots all summer. If he's not the same he's just as big of .....Well you know what I'm saying.

Aunty - Ah, inequity... extreme inequity. That justifies unlawful actions by some, does it?

OK then, who gets to decide what is and is not equitable? You? Me? Do I agree with your definition? Probably not in all cases. Do you agree with mine? Same answer.

You see the reasoning unfolding here I hope. The difference between having a legal system that works and one that does not, sets us apart from most of the rest of the world. We do not allow "individuals" to decide for us what right and wrong is. We have a democratic form of government that we are supposed to use for establishing laws. As upstanding citizens, we are trusted and we trust each other, that we are all following them. Individuals "doing their own thing" is not a useful system of government nor is it at all good for the resource. I hope you would agree with me on that.

pacnw,

No doubt you would have poo-pooed the Boston tea party....

Or told Rosa Parks to obey the law and sit in the back of the bus.

There comes a time where civil disobediance is appropriate. I'm not saying that we are there yet with this crab fiasco, but we are getting there...

I don't have the guts to pull tribal pots, but I do not have a problem with those that do.

Don't need a tea party. That was before there was a democratic form of government. We have a system of government that works... all people need to do is use it.

If people do not think our system of government works then they need to ask themselves, "why did I vote?"

Pacnw:

Clearly the system does not work. Non-tribal crabbers are getting screwed royally. That’s their perception, at least and when that many people are that unhappy something needs to be done. For that matter I believe many tribal crabbers are unhappy, if not with their haul then with the animosity the see.

I saw a tribal crabber purposely block the ramp at Quilcene for several hours. He launched his boat then took off to set his pots with the truck and trailer parked in the middle of a narrow ramp. Now I can’t say why he did what he did, but I suspect it may have had something to do with all the friction generated by what many of us see as a serious inequity.

Tribal pots are out thick in the Everett/Mukilteo area and have been most of the year. WDFW says we got our limit in the short season we had this summer. Then how do the Tribes fish for ten months and not get their's several times over. There are a as many or more tribal pots out there than what is ever out there for recreational fishers. I believe they also have all you can eat crab nights at the casino's quite often. I'm not saying that breaking the law is right but what the tribes are doing is outrageous. My 2 cents worth.

PNW...I wish I knew where your "apologist for the tribes" role comes from. I don't condone breaking the law but when it comes to the tribes the only law they know is their own. Tribal crabbers have been out for about a month and will be out in force for months. They decide when and where and how to exploit the resource that the courts so foolishly gave them claim to. They go into areas they are not supposed to be in and take all the crab....undesized, females , soft shells....then they relocate them to their designated areas to propogate for their use while scouring the beds where the recreational crabbers go. They fish out areas before we even get to start and YES they do rob the pots of sports crabbers all the time. They are above the law and need to be reigned in some day soon. The $5 million in gambling profits they spent to defeat I-892 was an example of their greed. The money they make off the casinoes was specifically to go for things to benefit the community not to pay lobbyist and pay politicians to maintain monopolies and dominate our fisheries..There is a war coming and the tribes are the only ones who can stop it by getting along and by understanding that no one ever intended for them to be above the law to thumb their noses at the rest of us. I don't care how badly screwed over they think they were 200 years ago. They need to accept the scorn they are getting and the consequences of their greed in the future if they make no attempt to get along. I'd say cut off all their crab floats if it wasn't against the law. Tell Safeway to stop buying their crab. Don;t pull their pots and risk arrest. Protest and get involved with the groups that will dare to take them on with both barrels. The tribes deserve all the scorn they breed.

fwiw
we have a representative republic
not a democratic government
we get to vote somebody to represent us
unfortunatly they never seem to do what they say they will while campainging
every so often you need another "Tea Party" to get their attention

PNW, It would seem that once again you are at odd with the majority here on this forum. But what I would really like to know, if one group can get treated better, have opprotunity than others and not PAY TAXES that the other groups do, what would YOU call that?
The only way that I can see that you feel the way that you do, is if you are a triblal member, or work for a tribe. I know, I have asked this before, yet you still persist with this let the tribes do what ever they want, and I guess we get to eat sh!t with what ever is left over. Now if you don't see that this is completely un-exceptable then you obviously have somthing to gain from this current arrangement........SO fess up and let us know which one it is!.................Fishy.

Grandpa,

That rant was a dandy, even for you!

Go git 'em!

WOW.

That's all I can think to say. You all have me speechless.

The part about this country not being a democracy REALLY has me spinning. Use the system, don't abuse it.

I thought this was about stealing crab and lawlessness, not Indian vs. non-Indian. GEEZ. I didn't bring it up, you did. You folks need to look inside yourselves and do a thorough review... IMHO

AuntyM, Grandpa......

So instead of the rants...Whats the best way to combat the unfairness? This has been discussed numerous times on the board. Legal action? Protests? Lobbying? If there was just some clear leadership I'd be happy to contribute.

OK goinfishin....you are right on target...I recently attended what we called the "Crab Summit" . I really don't want to get into specifics right now but let's say we discussed the whole range of issues concerning the poor allocation or our shellfish between sport and commercial. One thing I learned right off is that the tribes tell WDFW what they are going to do without notice.

Here's one example: In area 8-2 in Everett sport crabbing is really popular. Problem is that the tribes up that way find it real popular too. WDFW has tried to manage the resource in the past by annoouncing openings for sports crabbing once the molt is declared over and soft shell crab are few and far between. Then they tried to set exact seasons so we could plan better. Well on opening day of sport crabbing in 8-2 in 2004 the keeper crab were all but gone. We discussed a proposal to delay the opener to late June for 2005. What we were told by WDFW biologists was that the tribes would simply fish the whole month of June and clean out the area like they did in 2004. I was there on opening day and did not take one keeper crab. In the past I could limit on the first pull.

Then the first thing on the "what can we do" agenda was the statement that we could not approach anyone in the legislature or WDFW if we included the tribes in any way in our discussions. No one wants to touch the indian issues with a 20' pole. WHY? Well as much as I hate to admit it...there isn't a damn thing we can do locally about it. So some decide to try to get along and talk reason and fairness....Then, like Aunty points out, the tribes let us give up something more only to have them step in and add what we sacrifice to their take. That is why I insist they are beset with greed.

With all that said I would say that the only thing the masses can do to make a difference is to get involved. HOW?

1.) Join a PSA chapter or another major fishing club.

2.) Join the RFA (Recreational Fishing Alliance)

3.) Donate as much money as you can to the Washington Sportsfishing PAC.

The ultimate fight for sportsmen's rights will be in our legislature and in the congress of the United States. It won't be from WDFW meetings or certainly not from the WDFW commission as it sits now. Not from sitting on the WDFW assorted advisory committees. Not from giving up more opportunity to show good faith. The tribes are spending millions of dollars from the gambling monopoly Gary Locke gave them to influence the legislature. to change the laws to suit them and to influence fisheries policies in their favor. The non-tribal commercials already outspend and outwork us sportsmen and now we have the tribes against us too. Sure we will try to work with both of those user groups but the legislature and the new governor are the two targets I would be aiming at. We need a show of force..For heaven's sake we make up the majority. What is sad though is that if there was an important meeting about crabbing most of the 240 commercial crabbers would be there while we have in the past been unable to get a handful of sports fishers to show up.

That is changing rapidly. RFA Washington is formed and so is the Sportsfishing PAC. We now have a lobbyist in Olympia. Oh you didn't realize that we have never had one? Well the commercials sure do and so do the tribes. Now is your chance to help us compete. Walk the talk.

Why pull the pots up? It's much easier to just cut the buoys off and let the leaded rope sink. NOT that I have done that of course.

PM:

Do you think the tribal pots are configured to stop killing crabs after they are lost, or would your solution cause the pots to keep on killing?

I do not condone such acts, but sure can see why upset recreational crabbers would be thinking about it.


Lets do what we can legally - Join RFA, get a voice in Olympia. The tribes damn sure do.